New Rails

philly

philly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thinking about replacing the rails on my table.
It is a 9 foot GCIII, 4 1/2 inch diamond cut pockets with Simonis.

What would be a good replacement and why?
What is the approximate cost for the rails only without installation?
Appreciate all responses in advance.
 
Last edited:
bradsh98

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Silver Member
philly said:
Thinking about replacing the rails on my table.
It is a 9 foot GCIII, 4 1/2 inch diamond cut pockets with Simonis.

What would be a good replacement and why?
What is the approximate cost for the rails only without installation?
Appreciate all responses in advance.
Click to expand...

Are you looking to replace the 'rails', or the 'cushions'?

For rail replacement, you have very limited options. The best option is Chambers Billiard Company - Jerimy Chambers
Alternatively, you might be able to get a set of replacement rails directly from Brunswick.

For replacement cushions, you have many options:

Brunswick Superspeed cushions are a great option, though the installation can be more time-consuming than some other options. I believe they are around $125/set

MBS cushions (from Championship Billiards) are an economically priced option that play excellent. They are also easy to install. I believe they are around $60/set

Diamond (black) cushions are similar in price to Brunswick Superspeed. They are easy to install and play nicely. However, there have been some recent durability concerns. I believe they are around $120/set

Artemis Intercontinental 66 cushions are a very expensive gum rubber cushion. They are the same cushions that are installed on 9' Diamond tables. Some like the way that they play, some hate the way that they play. I believe they are around $350/set


Personally, I prefer Brunswick Superspeed or MBS. Both seem to play about the same.
 
philly

philly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
bradsh98 said:
Are you looking to replace the 'rails', or the 'cushions'?

For rail replacement, you have very limited options. The best option is Chambers Billiard Company - Jerimy Chambers
Alternatively, you might be able to get a set of replacement rails directly from Brunswick.

For replacement cushions, you have many options:

Brunswick Superspeed cushions are a great option, though the installation can be more time-consuming than some other options. I believe they are around $125/set

MBS cushions (from Championship Billiards) are an economically priced option that play excellent. They are also easy to install. I believe they are around $60/set

Diamond (black) cushions are similar in price to Brunswick Superspeed. They are easy to install and play nicely. However, there have been some recent durability concerns. I believe they are around $120/set

Artemis Intercontinental 66 cushions are a very expensive gum rubber cushion. They are the same cushions that are installed on 9' Diamond tables. Some like the way that they play, some hate the way that they play. I believe they are around $350/set


Personally, I prefer Brunswick Superspeed or MBS. Both seem to play about the same.
Click to expand...

Thanks very much for the input.
Much appreciated.
I did mean cushions.
Will replace the cloth also at the same time.
I have Superspeeds on it now.
Pretty much thinking of tuning the table up and possibly closing the pockets 1/4 inch also.
 
O

olgoat

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Always helpful answers. Thanks for the time you devote to this forum.

bradsh98 said:
Are you looking to replace the 'rails', or the 'cushions'?

For rail replacement, you have very limited options. The best option is Chambers Billiard Company - Jerimy Chambers
Alternatively, you might be able to get a set of replacement rails directly from Brunswick.

For replacement cushions, you have many options:

Brunswick Superspeed cushions are a great option, though the installation can be more time-consuming than some other options. I believe they are around $125/set

MBS cushions (from Championship Billiards) are an economically priced option that play excellent. They are also easy to install. I believe they are around $60/set

Diamond (black) cushions are similar in price to Brunswick Superspeed. They are easy to install and play nicely. However, there have been some recent durability concerns. I believe they are around $120/set

Artemis Intercontinental 66 cushions are a very expensive gum rubber cushion. They are the same cushions that are installed on 9' Diamond tables. Some like the way that they play, some hate the way that they play. I believe they are around $350/set


Personally, I prefer Brunswick Superspeed or MBS. Both seem to play about the same.
Click to expand...
 
rexus31

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
philly said:
Pretty much thinking of tuning the table up and possibly closing the pockets 1/4 inch also.
Click to expand...

This will be more involved if you have it done properly. Wood needs to be added to the subrail and the pocket profile recut. This usually runs between $1,000 and $1,500 for the rail work, rubber and cloth.
 
philly

philly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
rexus31 said:
This will be more involved if you have it done properly. Wood needs to be added to the subrail and the pocket profile recut. This usually runs between $1,000 and $1,500 for the rail work, rubber and cloth.
Click to expand...

Thanks
I really enjoy a table that plays well.
It's worth it to me.
I have a go to mechanic that I use.
We have played many many matches against each other in tournaments and
have a mutually friendly relationship and I am happy with the work he has done on my table.
I play all of the games including 14.1.
4 1/2 inch is tough enough playing 14.1.
I play a lot of one pocket too.
4 1/4 would be great for one pocket.
I am torn.
Thanks for all of your suggestions.
Much appreciated.
 
rexus31

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
philly said:
Thanks
I really enjoy a table that plays well.
It's worth it to me.
I have a go to mechanic that I use.
We have played many many matches against each other in tournaments and
have a mutually friendly relationship and I am happy with the work he has done on my table.
I play all of the games including 14.1.
4 1/2 inch is tough enough playing 14.1.
I play a lot of one pocket too.
4 1/4 would be great for one pocket.
I am torn.
Thanks for all of your suggestions.
Much appreciated.
Click to expand...

I went with 4.125" on my GCI. It plays tough but fair.

49603456301_6bf97eb126_c.jpg


49725546583_f658784cff_c.jpg
 
B

bignick31985

Life Long Learner
Silver Member
4 and 3/8" corners on my GC IV. Done by Mark Gregory. Plays great. Wouldn't change it at all. Superspeed cushions, 860HR.
 

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bradsh98

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Silver Member
lgherb said:
I'm guessing mine are ripe for replacement:
Click to expand...

Not necessarily.. While you do have the original Monarch Superspeeds, they may actually be decent.

The biggest issue that I have seen with these old cushions is that they tend to stain the cloth. One year after installation, you will likely notice that the rail cloth will have a brownish stain, along the length of the cushions.

For what it's worth, I had a friend who used to wipe down the old Monarch Superspeed cushions with glycol based brake fluid, prior to every recover. I never saw the tables myself, but he claimed that he never noticed any staining.
 
lgherb

lgherb

Registered
bradsh98 said:
Not necessarily.. While you do have the original Monarch Superspeeds, they may actually be decent.

The biggest issue that I have seen with these old cushions is that they tend to stain the cloth. One year after installation, you will likely notice that the rail cloth will have a brownish stain, along the length of the cushions.

For what it's worth, I had a friend who used to wipe down the old Monarch Superspeed cushions with glycol based brake fluid, prior to every recover. I never saw the tables myself, but he claimed that he never noticed any staining.
Click to expand...

So is there an easy way to test the action on cushions?

Does the glycol based brake fluid wipe down provide any restorative value in terms of replacing lost oils tat may have leached out over time?

Last question for now...I've read on the site that when replacing the 'Monarch Superspeed' cushions with the current generation of Brunswick Superspeed cushions that the profile is slightly different and would require the wood they are adhered to to be slightly resurfaced to accommodate for the difference in the profile.

Is there a good description (or better yet a technical drawing) that explains or illustrates the difference and/or any scope of work required?

Having built a house by hand myself, rebuilt auto and marine engines in the past, and renovated my kitchen and basement by myself I was thinking I'd replace the cushions and hire a mechanic to reassemble and re-cloth the table this time.

hSdEAKr.jpg
 
bradsh98

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Silver Member
lgherb said:
So is there an easy way to test the action on cushions?

Does the glycol based brake fluid wipe down provide any restorative value in terms of replacing lost oils tat may have leached out over time?

Last question for now...I've read on the site that when replacing the 'Monarch Superspeed' cushions with the current generation of Brunswick Superspeed cushions that the profile is slightly different and would require the wood they are adhered to to be slightly resurfaced to accommodate for the difference in the profile.

Is there a good description (or better yet a technical drawing) that explains or illustrates the difference and/or any scope of work required?

Having built a house by hand myself, rebuilt auto and marine engines in the past, and renovated my kitchen and basement by myself I was thinking I'd replace the cushions and hire a mechanic to reassemble and re-cloth the table this time.
Click to expand...


Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of time to respond right now..
But, check out this thread for a bit more information.

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=490206

When I have a bit more time, I will provide dimensioned drawings, to show more detail.
 
fastone371

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
bignick31985 said:
4 and 3/8" corners on my GC IV. Done by Mark Gregory. Plays great. Wouldn't change it at all. Superspeed cushions, 860HR.
Click to expand...

picture.php


I thought I measured mine to be 4 3/8" and I can not get 2 balls side by side in the opening. Maybe I measure too far out on the opening?? Josh Ebert at Club Billiards did mine, Artemis cushions, very happy with my table.
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Man just to reiterate, don't ever put anything but superspeed on a GC. I went to Drexeline Billiards in PA last night. They have 20 GC4 tables, purchased new in 2001 or so. (I was there when they were purchased). They have played jam up all these years. About 5 years ago, 4 of the tables that were previously triple shimmed for 1 hole play had new cushions installed in an extended fashion to make the pockets tight for one hole, without using shims. (One hole is the main game in this room). The owner told me at the time he put the Diamond cushions on it, and was very proud that the tables had new Diamond cushions. It has to be the black, not the Artemis, because the cushion is not very rounded like the Artemis is. (But disclaimer I never saw these 4 tables without the cloth).


During the day when the crowd is thin and the tables are dry, these extended rails play a little faster than the other tables with the original superposed from 2001, but not crazy fast. But at night, when the crowd is bigger, the room is more humid, and the balls are actually sticky (you can see the stickiness with your eyes) they play like pin ball machines. Just as bad as a Diamond when its humid. If you move over one table to the original superspeed in the same conditions, it plays normal speed.

I can't wrap my head around why anyone likes these Diamond cushions, be it Black or Artemis. Go to any room that is slightly humid, with old cloth, and you will want to pull your hair out at how unnaturally the balls fly off the rails. And move over one table to superspeed, and all is good.

This is my opinion, and I'm no champion, but its a super strong opinion. The top players in the room say the same thing.
 
Lawnboy77

Lawnboy77

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I love the Artemis cushions. In my opinion they play like the old school rubber made in the U.S.A used to play like. I currently have two sets of rails for my Anniversary. Both professionally built, or overhauled, one with Artemis and the other set are Pro-cut with Superspeeds. As far as the banking short goes, I've not noticed anything like that. A 5 rail kick is the same for both, it's just that the Artemis are noticeably quieter and don't require as much power to go 5 rails. It's a fairly easy adjustment to go from one or the other. I suspect the situations where rails are too fast and jumping are just ones that aren't set up right, not necessarily the fault of the rubber.
 
fastone371

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
iusedtoberich said:
Man just to reiterate, don't ever put anything but superspeed on a GC. I went to Drexeline Billiards in PA last night. They have 20 GC4 tables, purchased new in 2001 or so. (I was there when they were purchased). They have played jam up all these years. About 5 years ago, 4 of the tables that were previously triple shimmed for 1 hole play had new cushions installed in an extended fashion to make the pockets tight for one hole, without using shims. (One hole is the main game in this room). The owner told me at the time he put the Diamond cushions on it, and was very proud that the tables had new Diamond cushions. It has to be the black, not the Artemis, because the cushion is not very rounded like the Artemis is. (But disclaimer I never saw these 4 tables without the cloth).


During the day when the crowd is thin and the tables are dry, these extended rails play a little faster than the other tables with the original superposed from 2001, but not crazy fast. But at night, when the crowd is bigger, the room is more humid, and the balls are actually sticky (you can see the stickiness with your eyes) they play like pin ball machines. Just as bad as a Diamond when its humid. If you move over one table to the original superspeed in the same conditions, it plays normal speed.

I can't wrap my head around why anyone likes these Diamond cushions, be it Black or Artemis. Go to any room that is slightly humid, with old cloth, and you will want to pull your hair out at how unnaturally the balls fly off the rails. And move over one table to superspeed, and all is good.

This is my opinion, and I'm no champion, but its a super strong opinion. The top players in the room say the same thing.
Click to expand...

My guess is that the sub-rail angle is not right on those tables. In hindsight I think I wish I had put Superspeeds on my GC but when I had my rails done everyone and their brother was installing Artemis so thats what I used. I can not fault the Artemis cushions on my table one bit. Since my table is in the basement I often get to play in humid conditions in the summer, if anything I think my table slows down a little rather than speeds up in high humidity but the difference is minute.
 
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