Is the "hustler" image good or bad for the game

C

carter1984

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the long run?

I ask because I recently got into a conversation with someone who doesn't really play pool and his perception is basically that most real players are trying to hustle others out of their money.

We debated whether this was a pro, since many people seem fascinated by that aspect of the game and are drawn to it because of this perception, or a con since there are plenty of other people that view that as dishonest and would never step foot in a pool hall, or play pool (or allow their children to) because of the "seediness" that they perceive.

This seems to be somewhat of a double edge sword.

Taking this to the extreme, and provided equal airtime on TV, which would benefit the game more - a reality show featuring a small group of players hitting the road and gambling or a truly well organized tour that attracts the top players in the world?
 
armoworrior

armoworrior

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I personally play to have a good time and do something challenging I like playing someone that is better than I am but look at it like this if some type of monetary compensation wasn't offered would we have players on tv? I think it hurts but also helps the right people
 
Fatboy

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
2 edge sword,

people look at car crashes

they like to sweat action, its entertainment.


the downside is gambling has a dark side especially when there is no casino involved. just 2 people off the street so to speak. Look around at the Derby, not many squares there. i'm not a square, not a criminal either. Pool has a dark side

I was thinking the other night,

How could a movie script for pool be written that didnt involve gambling?

if that can be answered then your post has been answered. IMO

best
eric:smile:
 
J

j0hnny8875

Registered
When I started going to the pool hall a few years ago I was always somewhat intimidated by those who were always there, had their own cue, wore the stupid glove, etc... but the fact of the matter is you can't get hustled if you don't bet money, and you surely shouldn't bet money if you're just stepping foot into a pool hall for the first time. But the fact that there are hustlers out there shouldn't deter people from playing.

As far as the tv show goes... I'd definitely be interested in watching the small group gambling, not sure how it would affect the game overall though... probably just pack hole-in-the-wall bars across the nation full of wannabe hustlers.
 
rayjay

rayjay

some of the kids
Silver Member
There's hustlers in almost every walk of life, many don't involve gambling. If you gamble, don't make bad bets. Don't be square, beware.
 
B

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
Hustlers don't gamble.

Like Lee Marvin said to Clint Eastwood in Paint Your Wagon.

Marvin: Don't play cards with Doc.
Eastwood: Oh, I don't gamble.
Marvin: Good, 'cause neither does he.
 
TomHay

TomHay

Best Tips For Less
Gold Member
Silver Member
No sword, not even a rusted Pen Knife.

Proven History shows us in many decades we have had two big boosts in the Pool Industry. After the Movie The Hustler and after the movie Color of Money.

Its like the first Rocky, you left wanting to swing your fists, air box.

There are more stories in Pool that are fact or based on fact that not having a Route 66 TV show on Pool is pretty stupid.

carter1984 said:
In the long run?

I ask because I recently got into a conversation with someone who doesn't really play pool and his perception is basically that most real players are trying to hustle others out of their money.

We debated whether this was a pro, since many people seem fascinated by that aspect of the game and are drawn to it because of this perception, or a con since there are plenty of other people that view that as dishonest and would never step foot in a pool hall, or play pool (or allow their children to) because of the "seediness" that they perceive.

This seems to be somewhat of a double edge sword.

Taking this to the extreme, and provided equal airtime on TV, which would benefit the game more - a reality show featuring a small group of players hitting the road and gambling or a truly well organized tour that attracts the top players in the world?
Click to expand...
 
Fatboy

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
j0hnny8875 said:
When I started going to the pool hall a few years ago I was always somewhat intimidated by those who were always there, had their own cue, wore the stupid glove, etc... but the fact of the matter is you can't get hustled if you don't bet money, and you surely shouldn't bet money if you're just stepping foot into a pool hall for the first time. But the fact that there are hustlers out there shouldn't deter people from playing.

As far as the tv show goes... I'd definitely be interested in watching the small group gambling, not sure how it would affect the game overall though... probably just pack hole-in-the-wall bars across the nation full of wannabe hustlers.
Click to expand...


i was in action within the first week of going to the pool room when i was 18, i dove in head first never looked back. I got robbed a couple times but in a couple weeks i knew where i fit in and took it from there. there was lots of action back then, not just champions on the front table.


Bt how to sell pool with out action is a tough sell
 
GreenFeltguy

GreenFeltguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
gambling aspect is what the game is all about

First off let me say that I am a pool gambler and have been for more than 50 years. go to any tournament, I witnessed this for every Derby City Classic, all other major tournaments etc., if the finals of the tournament is starting but there is a major gambling match on another nearby table , 85% of the crowd will watch the gambling match, 15 % will watch the finals even though the finals will usually have the better players. If you think I'm wrong about this look at any of the dvdsbof the finals of most major tournaments, stands are nearly empty( US OPEN, Derby, Tunica) now google gambling matches where you will see standing room only. Is this the way it should be ? I think not, just the way it has always been for the 50 years I've been deeply involved with pool , don't think it will ever change unless para- mutual betting becomes legal in pool matches .
 
S

SloMoHolic

When will then be now?
Silver Member
carter1984 said:
We debated whether this was a pro, since many people seem fascinated by that aspect of the game and are drawn to it because of this perception, or a con since there are plenty of other people that view that as dishonest and would never step foot in a pool hall, or play pool (or allow their children to) because of the "seediness" that they perceive.
Click to expand...

A few years ago, my wife and I tried to start a Billiards Club at the high school where she was a science teacher. We had several hundred students sign the petition, we had an arrangement all set up with a local "family" pool hall, and we had administrative (ie by-laws), instructional, and league support from the BEF.

But we ran into two major roadblocks that kept the Club from ever forming.

1. Many of the parents would not allow their children in a pool hall because of the seedy image of pool.

2. Most of the administrators at the high school (and the district head office) would not endorse the Club because of the seedy image of pool.

It was heartbreaking because we had put so much work into it, and because so many kids were excited about learning to play pool. I'm sure some of them will eventually learn to play, but many will not.

Incidentally, two years after our failed attempt, the pool hall that had been so generous to the effort suddenly closed their doors. The building is now used as a small shopping center.

I can see how the "seedy" reputation of pool attracts some folks to the game, but from our perspective, it sure kept a lot of folks away from the game.

-Blake
 
YubaCushion

YubaCushion

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SloMoHolic said:
A few years ago, my wife and I tried to start a Billiards Club at the high school where she was a science teacher. We had several hundred students sign the petition, we had an arrangement all set up with a local "family" pool hall, and we had administrative (ie by-laws), instructional, and league support from the BEF.

But we ran into two major roadblocks that kept the Club from ever forming.

1. Many of the parents would not allow their children in a pool hall because of the seedy image of pool.

2. Most of the administrators at the high school (and the district head office) would not endorse the Club because of the seedy image of pool.

It was heartbreaking because we had put so much work into it, and because so many kids were excited about learning to play pool. I'm sure some of them will eventually learn to play, but many will not.

Incidentally, two years after our failed attempt, the pool hall that had been so generous to the effort suddenly closed their doors. The building is now used as a small shopping center.

I can see how the "seedy" reputation of pool attracts some folks to the game, but from our perspective, it sure kept a lot of folks away from the game.

-Blake
Click to expand...


I don't think it's the hustler so much as the wanabe hustler.
That's to bad about your school.
 
Fatboy

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SloMoHolic said:
A few years ago, my wife and I tried to start a Billiards Club at the high school where she was a science teacher. We had several hundred students sign the petition, we had an arrangement all set up with a local "family" pool hall, and we had administrative (ie by-laws), instructional, and league support from the BEF.

But we ran into two major roadblocks that kept the Club from ever forming.

1. Many of the parents would not allow their children in a pool hall because of the seedy image of pool.

2. Most of the administrators at the high school (and the district head office) would not endorse the Club because of the seedy image of pool.

It was heartbreaking because we had put so much work into it, and because so many kids were excited about learning to play pool. I'm sure some of them will eventually learn to play, but many will not.

Incidentally, two years after our failed attempt, the pool hall that had been so generous to the effort suddenly closed their doors. The building is now used as a small shopping center.

I can see how the "seedy" reputation of pool attracts some folks to the game, but from our perspective, it sure kept a lot of folks away from the game.

-Blake
Click to expand...


i guess were just seedy people, some have nice gardens too.

thats really to bad sounds like OC snob's to me. cant fade those kind of people. pool is a game with rich history and deep roots in something.

best
eric:smile:
 
Tramp Steamer

Tramp Steamer

One Pocket enthusiast.
Silver Member
He doesn't mean the movie, and yes, I believe it has hurt the image of pool playing, and will continue to do so. :smile:
 
CreeDo

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
I guess one way of looking at is:

Is there anyone who plays SPECIFICALLY because of the seedy image, who otherwise wouldn't bother?
Is there anyone who avoids it SPECIFICALLY because of the seedy image, who otherwise would play?

The 2nd one HAS to outweigh the first one, right?
I doubt there are lots of people out there who are only going to pool halls because they're slumming.

In our small town, a pool hall opened up and was quickly closed when it was found someone was dealing
drugs either in the building or just outside. I honestly think the town was just looking for an excuse.
They're very uptight "horsey set" types, who got very upset at the prospect of someone opening a Subway on main street.
 
StraightPoolIU

StraightPoolIU

Brent
Silver Member
I think in the long run it's probably a net negative. While it might generate some short term interest I think it has probably stunted its growth as a sport here in the United States where the real growth potential would be.
 
H

Hud

Registered
Its a combination of the illegal activity and the difficulty of the game.
Poker you will find is doing fine, but anyone can learn how to play poker in a matter of minutes (I'm not saying anyone can learn to be good at it, but they can learn to DO it.)

On the other hand I don't think people just pick up a stick for the first time and start running racks.

Pool is EVIL, it's been instilled in us from birth. Watch Disney's Pinocchio for an example of this.

So I guess it kind of does hurt the game in the long run which is sad because Poker got away with it.
 
subdude1974

subdude1974

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well lets see. Pros are playing for the same money now that they were playing for in the 60's and 70's. Answer is pretty clear to me. Hustling is a huge detriment to the game. That and the fact that there isn't solely 1 governing body for pro Billiards. I don't know of any sport that the players make less. There might be one, but I don't know it.
 
S

SloMoHolic

When will then be now?
Silver Member
Fatboy said:
i guess were just seedy people, some have nice gardens too.

thats really to bad sounds like OC snob's to me. cant fade those kind of people. pool is a game with rich history and deep roots in something.

best
eric:smile:
Click to expand...

You're not too far off on the "OC type" guess. :)

I will say that there were several teachers that fully supported it, and a couple of higher-ups. I guess we just didn't have enough momentum to overcome the naysayers.

Personally, I was initially attracted to the game by the physics, logic, and strategy involved (the "clean image"). It wasn't until later that I really walked over to the shady side of the street.

I will say that these days, I really enjoy that rich history. McGoorty is one of my favorite books.
 
S

SloMoHolic

When will then be now?
Silver Member
CreeDo said:
Is there anyone who plays SPECIFICALLY because of the seedy image, who otherwise wouldn't bother?

Is there anyone who avoids it SPECIFICALLY because of the seedy image, who otherwise would play?

The 2nd one HAS to outweigh the first one, right?
Click to expand...
I totally agree with this. Great post, CreeDo, as always.
 
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