Chalk.... Inconvenient Truths....
- Thread starter The Renfro
- Start date
I used to keep score like that playing golf. Guys would ask me, "How'd you do?". I'd tell them I'm +1.
"WOW!!!!!"
And if hadn't accidentally hit the fairway a few times, I might have come in +2, or maybe even +3. I had a keen eye for finding golf balls.
I chalk up before every shot thanks to an old school player who taught me this fantastic game many years ago. I very rarely miss cue. I play a lot as I'm fortunate enough to have a table in my home. A gross of Master chalk costs me about $20. I'm not sure why someone would want to pay a lot of money for chalk.
Exactly what I'm taking away from this thread as well. I have purchased a racking template, and at least one tip from Outsville. I'm a gadget guy and I think it is fun to try out different products. After viewing this thread and the lack of professionalism, I will be "voting with my wallet" by not purchasing any additional products from this company.
If the owner, (Chris, right?) had come on the forum and contributed to the conversation with a well reasoned argument, experiment and results, I would definitely have purchased some of his chalk to try out for myself. (I already own most of the others) However in light of this disappointing behavior, I will sadly add this company to my "do not support" list along with a couple of others that have demonstrated similar behavior on the forum.
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Science. I know that I have 3 pieces of chalk downstairs right now, Pioneer, Masters and
Magic. What if I told you that I can tell a difference, or that I have never miscued using the
master and magic. But that ungodly pioneer that was given to me when I got my craigslist
centennials is a different story. So after many hours in my basement I can fully give
testimony that there is a difference in chalk. I am a layman in many ways, and I can agree
that chalk will not magically make you shoot better or have more english, add an extra tip
of side or any of that nonsense but for people to say there is no difference is nonsense.
We even have testimony of people beating others using X brand of chalk. Why is that?
Because it was worth remembering that I won using that crap brand. If it was all the
same it would not of been memorable. There are many factors that go into a miscue,
chalk being the most prevalent among C+ players.
Magic. What if I told you that I can tell a difference, or that I have never miscued using the
master and magic. But that ungodly pioneer that was given to me when I got my craigslist
centennials is a different story. So after many hours in my basement I can fully give
testimony that there is a difference in chalk. I am a layman in many ways, and I can agree
that chalk will not magically make you shoot better or have more english, add an extra tip
of side or any of that nonsense but for people to say there is no difference is nonsense.
We even have testimony of people beating others using X brand of chalk. Why is that?
Because it was worth remembering that I won using that crap brand. If it was all the
same it would not of been memorable. There are many factors that go into a miscue,
chalk being the most prevalent among C+ players.
My take on all of this....from an admitted hack.
There are undoubtedly differences in equipment, such that one brand or style is capable of performing better than another. The level or amount of difference will vary, depending on the skill and ability of the person using said equipment. As I said, I'm a hack, anything that helps, if even a little, is magnified much more than the difference it might make for an A player, or better.
That having been said, the equipment itself doesn't make a persons game better, it merely helps keep the mistakes smaller in effect, perhaps a little more margin for error....
I truly believe that there is another effect as well. I hate to use the term "placebo" as that places a negative connotation to the discussion, perhaps "confidence" is a better way to describe it. If you feel more confident and comfortable using something that is purported to perform at a higher level, then your game should be better as well. We all play better when we play with confidence.
I truly believe that the real bottom line lies somewhere between where Chris and Dr. Dave are coming from. The practical, real-world application, if you will. Dr. Dave is working from a clinical, objective point of view, and likely with a level of skepticalness. (Necessary, I'm sure, from a scientific point of view.) Chris has done a lot of research and development, not just in the area of chalk, but in all his pool products. He gets feedback from players (I've been fortunate to be able to try some of his products as they were being developed, a fun process) and is truly enthusiastic about what he is doing. I always look forward to what he's going to bring to market next. He is good for our game, developing new "stuff" and providing it from the little guy, not a big company.
I haven't given Great White a test myself yet. I have a piece in the bag, I'm waiting until I finish my current cube of Magic Chalk to try it. I don't play often enough (or well enough, probably) to try a side by side comparison. I want to use one regularly, and make my impressions after that.
I had been using Predator previously, which I liked pretty well. I like the Magic Chalk more, if only because it gets FAR less on my hands than the Predator (the biggest issue I have with Predator). With both of those chalks, I get the feeling that I get a little better grip on shots involving spin, primarily low left or low right. That may very well be me doing a better job with the stroke on a given shot, and that using Masters I may very well get the same result. Still, it "feels" better to me, so I will continue to use it. For the cost of their chalk, and how long it lasts me, that's not outrageous in the least.
I love how the discussion will always come around to the .15 someone pays for Masters, and how crazy it is to pay more for chalk. A couple of bucks for Great While, Magic or Predator isn't terribly frivolous. Probably many of those folks making that complaint are playing with a cue that costs hundreds or even thousands of dollars, stored in a case that is another several hundred dollars, which contains a break cue and maybe a jump cue, again costing significant dollars. Yet those same folks will poo-poo a couple bucks for chalk to use with all that cool equipment? (I do draw the line at Kamui, and it's price vs performance/challenges tho.)
I wish Chris (and RJ, with Magic) all the best, and hope they are wildly successful.
There are undoubtedly differences in equipment, such that one brand or style is capable of performing better than another. The level or amount of difference will vary, depending on the skill and ability of the person using said equipment. As I said, I'm a hack, anything that helps, if even a little, is magnified much more than the difference it might make for an A player, or better.
That having been said, the equipment itself doesn't make a persons game better, it merely helps keep the mistakes smaller in effect, perhaps a little more margin for error....
I truly believe that there is another effect as well. I hate to use the term "placebo" as that places a negative connotation to the discussion, perhaps "confidence" is a better way to describe it. If you feel more confident and comfortable using something that is purported to perform at a higher level, then your game should be better as well. We all play better when we play with confidence.
I truly believe that the real bottom line lies somewhere between where Chris and Dr. Dave are coming from. The practical, real-world application, if you will. Dr. Dave is working from a clinical, objective point of view, and likely with a level of skepticalness. (Necessary, I'm sure, from a scientific point of view.) Chris has done a lot of research and development, not just in the area of chalk, but in all his pool products. He gets feedback from players (I've been fortunate to be able to try some of his products as they were being developed, a fun process) and is truly enthusiastic about what he is doing. I always look forward to what he's going to bring to market next. He is good for our game, developing new "stuff" and providing it from the little guy, not a big company.
I haven't given Great White a test myself yet. I have a piece in the bag, I'm waiting until I finish my current cube of Magic Chalk to try it. I don't play often enough (or well enough, probably) to try a side by side comparison. I want to use one regularly, and make my impressions after that.
I had been using Predator previously, which I liked pretty well. I like the Magic Chalk more, if only because it gets FAR less on my hands than the Predator (the biggest issue I have with Predator). With both of those chalks, I get the feeling that I get a little better grip on shots involving spin, primarily low left or low right. That may very well be me doing a better job with the stroke on a given shot, and that using Masters I may very well get the same result. Still, it "feels" better to me, so I will continue to use it. For the cost of their chalk, and how long it lasts me, that's not outrageous in the least.
I love how the discussion will always come around to the .15 someone pays for Masters, and how crazy it is to pay more for chalk. A couple of bucks for Great While, Magic or Predator isn't terribly frivolous. Probably many of those folks making that complaint are playing with a cue that costs hundreds or even thousands of dollars, stored in a case that is another several hundred dollars, which contains a break cue and maybe a jump cue, again costing significant dollars. Yet those same folks will poo-poo a couple bucks for chalk to use with all that cool equipment? (I do draw the line at Kamui, and it's price vs performance/challenges tho.)
I wish Chris (and RJ, with Magic) all the best, and hope they are wildly successful.
Johnnyt...I have no "skin" in this game either, but what I see frequently is you making comments just to stir shit up. You have obviously not played with Ki-Tech tips. I have them on some of my cues now, and have been playing with them for more than a year. IMO they are great playing tips. See? I talk about something I know something about, due to my own experience. You should try it some time.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Colonel...It's just that I get so tired of people belittling somebody's product, when they haven't even tried it themselves. This thread seems to be based on a lot of different opinions. I have used Chris's racking templates, and his Ki-Tech cue tips. Both perform admirably in my opinion.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
I understand that perspective and agree with it Scott. Don't think because my post followed yours that it was in reference to yours, it wasn't.
I have also tried the OP's tips & chalk as well, I'll take the high road leave it at they aren't my cup of tea.
Everyone likes what they like. I actually was given a sample of RJ's Magic chalk & in my initial review I did not like it at first.
As my pre-flag supply dwindled in recent months I gave all the premium chalks a shot again giving each chalk a weeks play, about 40 hours & I'm now a fan of Magic Chalk. Sometimes even your initial impression of something can be changed in retrospect.
I now know some products I will NEVER buy !!!