Unwanted english

eNkel

Registered
Hello!

I have a very big problem about unwanted left english in straight in shots.
Here a video from behind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxWTcxw1--c&app=desktop
I want to exclude tip placement and vision center for now, only want to know if there is a big flaw in my technique. The thing is, my tip ends on the right of the straight in line. But why do I have left english then? Shouldn't it be right english then?

Thanks in advance!

Gesendet von meinem MHA-L09 mit Tapatalk
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Hello!

I have a very big problem about unwanted left english in straight in shots.
Here a video from behind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxWTcxw1--c&app=desktop
I want to exclude tip placement and vision center for now, only want to know if there is a big flaw in my technique. The thing is, my tip ends on the right of the straight in line. But why do I have left english then? Shouldn't it be right english then?

Thanks in advance!

Gesendet von meinem MHA-L09 mit Tapatalk

It looks like you are gripping and stroking hard on the final forward stroke. Any muscle clenching can add unwanted sidespin to a stroke. You need some instruction in a smooth, relaxed forward stroke and stroke technique...
 

M.G.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's difficult to judge for me (as you are a lefty and I don't know how lefties look from behind), but I think you're standing too much sideways.
As such your body twists too much.
Couple that with a shot with speed (force) muscles start twitching and pulling to one side.

Ideally you have 3 contact points: bridge, chin and body. All 3 should line up
For me, body helps keeping the straight line on long shots.

Robertson is a lefty, so that might help you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeoparBVhQc

Cheers,
M
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Big elbow drop, caused by gripping the cue tightly as you strike the CB. This will cause "steering" of the cuestick...which is what's happening to you. If you are in Germany, seek out the services of PBIA/SPF instructor Ingo Peter, and get a video analysis done. BTW...next time, show us a side view. Also, put a light in back of you, for better observation of what your back hand is doing.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Hello!

I have a very big problem about unwanted left english in straight in shots.
Here a video from behind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxWTcxw1--c&app=desktop
I want to exclude tip placement and vision center for now, only want to know if there is a big flaw in my technique. The thing is, my tip ends on the right of the straight in line. But why do I have left english then? Shouldn't it be right english then?

Thanks in advance!

Gesendet von meinem MHA-L09 mit Tapatalk
 

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
If I may add, give yourself a better target to look at with this drill.

Place a ball on top of a cube of chalk on the rail where you are aiming. I didn't see anything down there.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Big elbow drop, caused by gripping the cue tightly as you strike the CB. This will cause "steering" of the cuestick...which is what's happening to you. If you are in Germany, seek out the services of PBIA/SPF instructor Ingo Peter, and get a video analysis done. BTW...next time, show us a side view. Also, put a light in back of you, for better observation of what your back hand is doing.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Are you saying pros who drop the elbow don't stroke straight?

Are you saying after the cue ball is contacted, it may be steered?

I apologize if I misunderstood you here.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It looks like you're grabbing the cue at impact, causing a twist to the left.

Try this as an exercise. It will feel uncomfortable but it may give you some answers. Remove your grip thumb and index finger completely from the cue and just let them hang straight down. Then shoot a couple times to see what happens. If the cue ball goes straighter, then the problem is in twisting your first two fingers.

If you're still twisting with those two off the cue, then it's the whole hand. In that case, you're going to have to focus shooting pool more with your arm than your hand, which is how it should be anyway.
 

eNkel

Registered
Thirst: Thank you guys for the detailed answers.
I want to add two points;
I was shooting with draw, the last stroke, which was straight in the video, was follow on the cue ball. The unwanted english effect is only so strong on draw, but sometimes a little bit on normal shots too.
And I'm learning with the PAT System and the books from Ralph Eckert, maybe this is clearing up a few things:

If I may add, give yourself a better target to look at with this drill.

Place a ball on top of a cube of chalk on the rail where you are aiming. I didn't see anything down there.

I was watching down the line on the foot spot, we have white lines so I have a target.

Big elbow drop, caused by gripping the cue tightly as you strike the CB. This will cause "steering" of the cuestick...which is what's happening to you. If you are in Germany, seek out the services of PBIA/SPF instructor Ingo Peter, and get a video analysis done. BTW...next time, show us a side view. Also, put a light in back of you, for better observation of what your back hand is doing.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

The elbow drop comes from the instructions in one of Ralph Eckert's books. When I don't use elbow drop, I dont have much follow through anymore. Not even half a diamond distance. But I know what you mean, because I can see it too. When I concentrate about less elbow drop when I stroke, it gets a little bit better, but I dont get good draw action anymore and the stroke gets "forced", if you know what I mean.

It looks like you're grabbing the cue at impact, causing a twist to the left.

Try this as an exercise. It will feel uncomfortable but it may give you some answers. Remove your grip thumb and index finger completely from the cue and just let them hang straight down. Then shoot a couple times to see what happens. If the cue ball goes straighter, then the problem is in twisting your first two fingers.

If you're still twisting with those two off the cue, then it's the whole hand. In that case, you're going to have to focus shooting pool more with your arm than your hand, which is how it should be anyway.

I will try this and report it.

Keep you guys updated and give you more videos. Thanks again!
 
Last edited:

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's difficult to judge for me (as you are a lefty and I don't know how lefties look from behind), but I think you're standing too much sideways.
As such your body twists too much.
Couple that with a shot with speed (force) muscles start twitching and pulling to one side.

Ideally you have 3 contact points: bridge, chin and body. All 3 should line up
For me, body helps keeping the straight line on long shots.

Robertson is a lefty, so that might help you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeoparBVhQc

Cheers,
M

Bingo.

Coach Lee Brett on Stance....

https://youtu.be/XHAl4j5eRBA
 

eNkel

Registered
More videos...
In each one is one shot each with follow, cue ball middle and draw


From behind again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtSl_SRly2Y

From the front:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3D9Em64hQI

Side:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9d-piTuqq8

Side with more height:
In this video, I tried no elbow drop in the last 3 shots. There you can see the follow through better...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNN7oAnJj38


I tried to have my thumb and index finger off the cue when delivering, didn't help.

Gesendet von meinem MHA-L09 mit Tapatalk
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
I’ll slow it down later if I can and blow it up to post....

But your alignment is incorrect.

Butt end of the cue stick is closer to the body in relation to the shot line

Don’t come in from the side like that

Stand back and wth the hand at your hip not only does the thumb point down once set in stance but when aligning upright from back before your walk it straight in the thumb can also point thru the shotline and then you rotate down in that hip/hand axis and like magic it’s now pointing to the ground.

I can pick this issue out pretty easy it’s something I’ve noticed in players bad to even really good for long time.

When you strafe/swoop in you lose center on the line with your backhand.....

You got the why and how how.

Your shooting skewed with the cue stick in to the body and out away with the tip end.....minutely.

I have eyes like a hawk....trust me on this one
-greyghost


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Nekdo

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I had the similar problem but with unintended right spin. I would suggest trying with the more "squared" stance and try slowing down your last forward stroke. Instead of stroking the CB try "pushing it".

Someone here once posted the drill with just the CB. It was just pushing the CB down the foot spot. You would make practice strokes, on the last stroke put the tip on the CB and just push it forward. It is great because the practice will tell you if you can find the center of the CB and make you aware of your posture at the exact moment of touching the CB (which is what matters).
You will have to try a lot of things to find out what is causing the unwanted spin. Have fun doing it and dont let it frustrate you.
 

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
Why do you want a longer followthrough?


Thirst: Thank you guys for the detailed answers.
I want to add two points;
I was shooting with draw, the last stroke, which was straight in the video, was follow on the cue ball. The unwanted english effect is only so strong on draw, but sometimes a little bit on normal shots too.
And I'm learning with the PAT System and the books from Ralph Eckert, maybe this is clearing up a few things:



I was watching down the line on the foot spot, we have white lines so I have a target.



The elbow drop comes from the instructions in one of Ralph Eckert's books. When I don't use elbow drop, I dont have much follow through anymore. Not even half a diamond distance. But I know what you mean, because I can see it too. When I concentrate about less elbow drop when I stroke, it gets a little bit better, but I dont get good draw action anymore and the stroke gets "forced", if you know what I mean.



I will try this and report it.

Keep you guys updated and give you more videos. Thanks again!
 

eNkel

Registered
I had the similar problem but with unintended right spin. I would suggest trying with the more "squared" stance and try slowing down your last forward stroke. Instead of stroking the CB try "pushing it".

Someone here once posted the drill with just the CB. It was just pushing the CB down the foot spot. You would make practice strokes, on the last stroke put the tip on the CB and just push it forward. It is great because the practice will tell you if you can find the center of the CB and make you aware of your posture at the exact moment of touching the CB (which is what matters).
You will have to try a lot of things to find out what is causing the unwanted spin. Have fun doing it and dont let it frustrate you.
Sorry for my language, but OMFG....
Tried this drill now for 10 minutes and damn... My vision center is to the left of my shaft. Now is the question, change the head position or going to the right with my tip...



Gesendet von meinem MHA-L09 mit Tapatalk
 

M.G.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I had the similar problem but with unintended right spin. I would suggest trying with the more "squared" stance and try slowing down your last forward stroke. Instead of stroking the CB try "pushing it".

I strongly believe that a squarer stance, not necessarily 100% Snooker-style but similar, is the answer to a lot of problems we keep seeing with longer shots or unintended English. I have also adapted mine over time. It looks funny and inelegant, but I also constantly achieve better results that my friends on most pots.

For me, the idea is always the same: align the cue (arm) so that you stroke 100% straight through the ball, then wrap your body around the cue so this movement is not impeded and find your vision, then find 3 reference points for your body to touch (bridge, chin, body). Done.

eNKel said:
Sorry for my language, but OMFG....
Tried this drill now for 10 minutes and damn... My vision center is to the left of my shaft. Now is the question, change the head position or going to the right with my tip...

I am a bit fan of going to the root cause instead of doing counter-corrections.
Yes, it takes longer, usually weeks. But the end result is fantastic.

Try watching a few videos on stances and try you what suits you best.
Then do a lof of these mentioned CB down table and back drills until you get (almost) straight back regularly. Start with rather slow, then medium speed. When you are ready you can practise high speed ones, but they're the hardest.

Cheers,
M
 

Nekdo

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thank you for the grammar input. English is not my native language so I apologize in advance :)

I completly understand the frustration of not being able to see the center of the CB and the drill mentioned magnifies the stroke error. Joe Tucker 3rd eye is a cheap and useful gadget to adress this problem.

Breaking down the last stroke into three phases also do wonders for me: (i) pull the cue straight back, (ii) pause, (iii) push the cue straight forward. While doing this keep your eyes on the object ball. Keeping the eyes on the OB is of the utmost importance. It will prevent head movement (sometimes the eyes are "leading" the head) and it will prevent you second guessing finding the center of the CB. At the last stroke you are where you are. You are in the "idiot" mode: straight back, straight forward :)
 

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
Not sure if anyone mentioned. Start doing this drill with a striped ball with the stripe in the vertical plane.

If you roll the ball up and back with no wobble with the stripe mission accomplished.

I like using a 9 ball for this drill because I also orient the ball number at my tip contact point so you can see the chalk mark on the number left after the shot. Helps you see if you really hit your target.

Also why are you hitting the CB in this drill so hard? Try it at a speed where it comes back to you and just hits the rail (lag speed)

See if those results are different. (betting they will be)

More videos...
In each one is one shot each with follow, cue ball middle and draw


From behind again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtSl_SRly2Y

From the front:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3D9Em64hQI

Side:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9d-piTuqq8

Side with more height:
In this video, I tried no elbow drop in the last 3 shots. There you can see the follow through better...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNN7oAnJj38


I tried to have my thumb and index finger off the cue when delivering, didn't help.

Gesendet von meinem MHA-L09 mit Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Sorry for my language, but OMFG....
Tried this drill now for 10 minutes and damn... My vision center is to the left of my shaft. Now is the question, change the head position or going to the right with my tip...



Gesendet von meinem MHA-L09 mit Tapatalk

The answer should almost always be--new head position so aiming/sighting and reality are aligned.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
After seeing your additional videos, your grip hand looks okay, although I'm not a big fan of the big grab you do at the end --- you don't appear to be twisting the cue.

I'm curious: Try shooting with a 'V' bridge instead of a closed bridge. Does anything change?
 
Last edited:
Top