Video: Cowboy Jimmy Moore aiming system?

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
At 9:06 in this video, you can see a pretty clear aiming method in play. Aside from the fact the man was a HOF player who had hit millions of balls into the center of the pocket, does anyone have any insights into how Moore approached aiming?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY2wCC9EXIc
He lines up with his tip at extreme left on the CB, then pivots to wherever he wants to hit it on the shot stroke. I think that's how I've heard the system called "90/90" described.

pj
chgo
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You can see him do the same thing in the previous shot, which is an overhead, so it isn't like he only did it one time.

FWIW, pivoting to the desired contact point just as you start to bring the cue forward seems like a bad idea unless you've devoted your life to playing the game. Then you can do whatever you want. Of course I could be wrong.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
Most great players got to be great by time spend practicing, and build mussel memory. This is not only pool, but most other sports also. JMHO
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
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Silver Member
It doesn't look like an aiming system. On every shot he addresses the cb with his tip low and left, then when he strokes it he actually hits the cb where he needs to hit it. It's a weird quirk, but not 90/90, not some mysterious aiming technique.

A lot of players address the cb with their cue out of the way for an unobstructed view of the aim line. If you watch a few games in this match you'll notice he always addresses low left on the cb, regardless of whether it's a right or left cut or straight in. Different strokes for different folks. Some people use the cue to help visualize a line of aim, while others keep the cue out of the way while visualizing the line.
 

cookie man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
At 9:06 in this video, you can see a pretty clear aiming method in play. Aside from the fact the man was a HOF player who had hit millions of balls into the center of the pocket, does anyone have any insights into how Moore approached aiming?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY2wCC9EXIc

Really not a secret. It's the CTE version that I learned initially although not from him. This will be the unpopular answer here but also the correct answer. I know people who actually learned it from him.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
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Really not a secret. It's the CTE version that I learned initially although not from him. This will be the unpopular answer here but also the correct answer. I know people who actually learned it from him.

Really? There is/was a CTE method where EVERY pivot starts from bottom left? I doubt that. I watched the entire match. He always starts off with the tip low left on the cb, regardless of left or right cut or straight in shots. And he doesn't "pivot" to center and shoot. He does the little low left bit (like the club head waggle a good golfer does before swinging the club), then he strokes the shot, guiding the tip to wherever on the cb he intends to strike it.
 
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garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Really? There is/was a CTE method where EVERY pivot starts from bottom left? I doubt that. I watched the entire match. He always starts off with the tip low left on the cb, regardless of left or right cut or straight in shots. And he doesn't "pivot" to center and shoot. He does the little low left bit (like the club head waggle a good golfer does before swinging the club), then he strokes the shot, guiding the tip to wherever on the cb he intends to strike it.
I agree. No CTE. There is a CTE variation where you pivot from outside edge to center(either direction) on every shot. http://www.billiardsthegame.com/offset-and-pivot-aiming-systems-395 It works but i doubt CJM was using it.
 

cookie man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Really? There is/was a CTE method where EVERY pivot starts from bottom left? I doubt that. I watched the entire match. He always starts off with the tip low left on the cb, regardless of left or right cut or straight in shots. And he doesn't "pivot" to center and shoot. He does the little low left bit (like the club head waggle a good golfer does before swinging the club), then he strokes the shot, guiding the tip to wherever on the cb he intends to strike it.

Yes, it's called the half ball pivot. There was a group in the old days that all used it. Jimmy Moore, Greanleaf, Fez Cassum i believe, and of course Hal . Really not worth discussing at this point as it's been discussed numerous times. Believe what you want to believe.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
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Yes, it's called the half ball pivot. There was a group in the old days that all used it. Jimmy Moore, Greanleaf, Fez Cassum i believe, and of course Hal . Really not worth discussing at this point as it's been discussed numerous times. Believe what you want to believe.

I believe what you are referring to involved left and right sided 1/2 ball pivots, not one sided for every shot. Lol. Moore, at least in this match, is not pivoting. He is simply cueing low left prior to striking the cb everytime, like a golfer that's created a little waggle or club head grounding in the PSR just before swinging at the ball.

But you are correct in saying it's not worth discussing, especially if you insist on trying to convince anyone that Jimmy Moore is using half ball pivot aiming via the left side of the cb on every single shot...right cuts, left cuts, straight ins, etc.... There is no pivot system that operates like that. It's called rote, just seeing the shot and feeling/knowing where to strike the cb in order to make it happen. Many players cue very low center on the cb before stroking the shot, and it doesn't mean they're using some mysterious vertical pivot aiming method.
 

8pack

They call me 2 county !
Silver Member
I believe what you are referring to involved left and right sided 1/2 ball pivots, not one sided for every shot. Lol. Moore, at least in this match, is not pivoting. He is simply cueing low left prior to striking the cb everytime, like a golfer that's created a little waggle or club head grounding in the PSR just before swinging at the ball.

But you are correct in saying it's not worth discussing, especially if you insist on trying to convince anyone that Jimmy Moore is using half ball pivot aiming via the left side of the cb on every single shot...right cuts, left cuts, straight ins, etc.... There is no pivot system that operates like that. It's called rote, just seeing the shot and feeling/knowing where to strike the cb in order to make it happen. Many players cue very low center on the cb before stroking the shot, and it doesn't mean they're using some mysterious vertical pivot aiming method.

I agree with you, he just lines up like that. I know a few players that line up off center but apply what ever is neccessary on the final stroke.
 

cookie man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I believe what you are referring to involved left and right sided 1/2 ball pivots, not one sided for every shot. Lol. Moore, at least in this match, is not pivoting. He is simply cueing low left prior to striking the cb everytime, like a golfer that's created a little waggle or club head grounding in the PSR just before swinging at the ball.

But you are correct in saying it's not worth discussing, especially if you insist on trying to convince anyone that Jimmy Moore is using half ball pivot aiming via the left side of the cb on every single shot...right cuts, left cuts, straight ins, etc.... There is no pivot system that operates like that. It's called rote, just seeing the shot and feeling/knowing where to strike the cb in order to make it happen. Many players cue very low center on the cb before stroking the shot, and it doesn't mean they're using some mysterious vertical pivot aiming method.

Left and right sided pivots were taught to the general public, but it was always possible to pivot from only one direction.

The shot on the 6 ball at 9:08, what do you call the method in which he gets the tip from lining up left to clear center cue ball at contact?
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
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Left and right sided pivots were taught to the general public, but it was always possible to pivot from only one direction.

The shot on the 6 ball at 9:08, what do you call the method in which he gets the tip from lining up left to clear center cue ball at contact?

Loose playing style. Waggle. He plays by feel. He is not using his cue in any systematic manner to line up the shot. He had a very wonky stroke, sort of swiping at the cb on every shot, which tells me he did things his way, not traditional, not systematic, just stepped up and did it as naturally as seeing it. I bet he could play golf also, and was probably pretty good at it.

An old buddy of mine named Larry Neudecker (Baltimore Red) plays the same way, as if the cue is just another limb attached to his body. It doesn't matter how it is held or moved or whatever....all that matters is that it ends up striking the cb where it needs to, and he's so in tune with it that it's as simple as reaching out with a hand and pushing a button with his index finger. He doesn't have to look at the cue to know where it is pointed in reference to the shot. He, probably like Moore used to do, just feels it, much in the same way a tennis player knows without a doubt that the racquet is on the correct line and at the correct angle to hit the ball just right to send it over the net to where they want it to go. They know it by feel, not by looking at the racquet while they are stepping into the shot and swinging.
 
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Mirza

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Really? There is/was a CTE method where EVERY pivot starts from bottom left? I doubt that. I watched the entire match. He always starts off with the tip low left on the cb, regardless of left or right cut or straight in shots. And he doesn't "pivot" to center and shoot. He does the little low left bit (like the club head waggle a good golfer does before swinging the club), then he strokes the shot, guiding the tip to wherever on the cb he intends to strike it.

http://www.billiardsthegame.com/offset-and-pivot-aiming-systems-395

https://vimeo.com/31802564
 

BryanB

Huge Balls
Silver Member
Go find a video of Robb Saez. He aims his shots the same way. I line up left and pivot right for cuts to the left and the opposite for right cuts. Works great with only 1 or 2 lines for almost all shots except very thin cuts
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member

Ok, the "Hybrid" system. Interesting. Here is how it works: experience

This little Q and A bit from the website tells a player all he or she needs to know:

"Q: Where is the pivot point?

A: Again, this is something that will vary from shot to shot, and it is somewhere behind the bridge for most shots. This is not something you need to worry about, but instead think of the shot circle (diagramed above) when you pivot. The actual pivot point will work itself out with practice."

What this is saying is, you make it work. And after enough practice, enough trial and error, enough misses, the system will eventually "work itself out".

So why start every shot with an edge to edge alignment if in the end you must recognize where the actual shot line is? In other words, the 1/2 ball pivot to ccb does not automatically put you on the shot line. You must LEARN to recognize the shot line and make the pivot work out so that your cue ends up on the shot line.
 
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