John Barton us open ban

This just HAS to be in Florida.

We don't pay to see movies; just go out on your front porch, move a couple appliances so you can see past the pickup on bricks, and watch stuff like this.

-von

WoodyMPW said:

Found it on youtube for you:

https://youtu.be/h3_EhmS1dng?t=86

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I've known John for many years, as both Barton and Collins, from his years in Greeley and Loveland. He's very passionate about what he does, and life in general. He's someone you can count on if you need him. I just ordered a Rugged case from Seyberts, and I'm sure I'll be as happy with it as I still am with my two Instroke Cowboys. I miss the days when we were able to get together at Denver 10 Ball Open time. He was just plain fun to hang out with!

one stroke said:

Yet most of them settled with no money and a slight change , Trump beat the NFL the reward was 1 dollar , i highly doubt you get much better if that but like I said we shall see
I like your fight even if I disagree with your beliefs


1

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Well, we will see. Trump brought a frivolous suit and was awarded a "damages" that were commensurate with the merits.

Each lawsuit is different and in this one the fact that he knocked us off is the minor claim.

In any event time and money will be used that needent be in play but he brought this upon himself.

garczar said:

Still not ONE second of video after nearly 300 posts?? Not ONE bystander sweating this SUPPOSED incident video'd ANY of it??? I find this a tad hard to believe. I for one don't think it ever happened just based on this alone. If something like this started there'd be fifty people(minimum!!) with phones out. Until video shows up this whole thing needs to just faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaade away.

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Exactly. I want to see the video too. This guy has done a terrible thing and is the reason that many victims are not believed. People like this who use up resources to make false claims are the bane of society.

ShootingHank said:

I respect your response and I think you have defended your company in an admirable way. I’m most likely going to get a case from JB Case but weighing out my options in regards to protection.

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Well, you're honestly not going to get better or even equal protection from a knockoff. I have yet to see one that duplicates our interior correctly. Likely because the knockoff sellers are not case makers and have no clue how the cases are actually constructed. The factory making them is likely beaten up on price that the knockoff importer is willing to pay so they have zero incentive to build quality as long as they can build it just good enough to stay within the acceptable return rate. And in fact they have incentive to cut corners to increase their own profits. They certainly aren't going to spend any extra time improving the product if they don't have to.

JB Cases said:

Well, you're honestly not going to get better or even equal protection from a knockoff. I have yet to see on that duplicates our interior correctly.

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A lady on my league team has the Acme case that resembles the Ultimate Rugged 3x6. After reading through this thread, I decided to do a close inspection/evaluation of her case the other night, and this is what I observed:

The Acme case, though a decent value at its price point, is not in the same class as the Ultimate Rugged. It was obvious from the moment I picked up her case that the outside material was not as tightly sewn onto the main tube of the case. The material around where the handles are sewn on is inferior to the JB case, as are the zippers. The interior of the case (the "heart" of a cue case imho) is decent on the Acme, better than a lot of cases out there, but not in the same class as a JB case. Acme did have a feature on the case that I thought was a good idea...a tab that when pulled allows you to pull the entire innards of the case upwards allowing easy access to remove the cues.

All that said, I've bought a lot worse cases than an Acme case like the one my teammate has, but for my money I still think a JB cases offers a better quality case with top-of-the-line protection for my cues. On a side-by-side comparison of our two cases, it was clearly obvious that Acme was absolutely trying to copy the looks of the JB case, using cheaper materials, and selling it at a lower price point.

And just so you all know, John and I have had our differences in the past so I am not posting this because I'm a fanboy, but simply because I believe in his product.

BTW John, thanks for personally fielding my phone call last week amid all the turmoil you were going through and helped me find the tracking info on my recently ordered case (it came that very day). Not a lot of companies out there where you can call for support and actually talk to the head honcho. I appreciate that and I'm forming a new and better opinion of you.

Take care and keep on crankin' out those excellent cases.

Maniac

Maniac said:

A lady on my league team has the Acme case that resembles the Ultimate Rugged 3x6. After reading through this thread, I decided to do a close inspection/evaluation of her case the other night, and this is what I observed:

The Acme case, though a decent value at its price point, is not in the same class as the Ultimate Rugged. It was obvious from the moment I picked up her case that the outside material was not as tightly sewn onto the main tube of the case. The material around where the handles are sewn on is inferior to the JB case, as are the zippers. The interior of the case (the "heart" of a cue case imho) is decent on the Acme, better than a lot of cases out there, but not in the same class as a JB case. Acme did have a feature on the case that I thought was a good idea...a tab that when pulled allows you to pull the entire innards of the case upwards allowing easy access to remove the cues.

All that said, I've bought a lot worse cases than an Acme case like the one my teammate has, but for my money I still think a JB cases offers a better quality case with top-of-the-line protection for my cues. On a side-by-side comparison of our two cases, it was clearly obvious that Acme was absolutely trying to copy the looks of the JB case, using cheaper materials, and selling it at a lower price point.

And just so you all know, John and I have had our differences in the past so I am not posting this because I'm a fanboy, but simply because I believe in his product.

BTW John, thanks for personally fielding my phone call last week amid all the turmoil you were going through and helped me find the tracking info on my recently ordered case (it came that very day). Not a lot of companies out there where you can call for support and actually talk to the head honcho. I appreciate that and I'm forming a new and better opinion of you.

Take care and keep on crankin' out those excellent cases.

Maniac

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Agree 100%. The difference in the two is HUGE. For not a whole lot more $$ you get a massively better product in a JB. These people that say its just a matter of opinion are either blind or have never seen the two side-by-side.

Before this thread I had never heard of Acme cases. It seems the clear consensus opinion that JB makes the best cases--but they are also priced accordingly. Acme on the other hand aren't the same quality as the JB but I haven't hear anyone say they are of poor quality; rather, they just don't meet the standards of the JB. Which is unsurprising considering the price points.

I'd much rather drive a Mercedes than a Honda but the Honda will still get me from point A to point B. Does Mercedes bother with trying to convince Honda drivers that they are driving an inferior car? Not really--they know their demo and market accordingly.

It seems very strange to me that the owner of one of the best cases out there (if not the best) would preoccupy himself with this very public tirade against a competitor. At best it tells us what we already know--JB cases are better products and are priced as such--and at worst it introduces to a consumer like me a direct competitor to his cases. Reading this thread, John doesn't seem to give the average consumer a lot of credit in their ability to discern what's quality and what's a little less than quality.

Not something I'd hold against him per se. If I were in the market for a case I'd buy the product based on some combination of quality and price, and not who owns the business. But it's very difficult to see how this tact is in any way beneficial to him. For me, I now have the impetus to research Acme cases and compare alongside JB and other competitors and react accordingly, while prior to this thread I was more in the JB or bust crowd. John clearly seems them as a valid competitor, so I suppose I should do the same.

buttnkdwonder said:

Before this thread I had never heard of Acme cases. It seems the clear consensus opinion that JB makes the best cases--but they are also priced accordingly. Acme on the other hand aren't the same quality as the JB but I haven't hear anyone say they are of poor quality; rather, they just don't meet the standards of the JB. Which is unsurprising considering the price points.

I'd much rather drive a Mercedes than a Honda but the Honda will still get me from point A to point B. Does Mercedes bother with trying to convince Honda drivers that they are driving an inferior car? Not really--they know their demo and market accordingly.

It seems very strange to me that the owner of one of the best cases out there (if not the best) would preoccupy himself with this very public tirade against a competitor. At best it tells us what we already know--JB cases are better products and are priced as such--and at worst it introduces to a consumer like me a direct competitor to his cases. Reading this thread, John doesn't seem to give the average consumer a lot of credit in their ability to discern what's quality and what's a little less than quality.

Not something I'd hold against him per se. If I were in the market for a case I'd buy the product based on some combination of quality and price, and not who owns the business. But it's very difficult to see how this tact is in any way beneficial to him. For me, I now have the impetus to research Acme cases and compare alongside JB and other competitors and react accordingly, while prior to this thread I was more in the JB or bust crowd. John clearly seems them as a valid competitor, so I suppose I should do the same.

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That's it in nutshell. Great points, great post. When folks ask how much my JB case cost, some don't blink an eye, others blink both eyes, and twitch a little bit

Not much reason to buy a case that cost more than your cue, unless you really just want to. There is a price point for everyone. Like you said, a Mercedes S class is probably going to protect you a little more than a Nissan Leaf, but you will pay for that extra protection. If you can afford it, great, if not, I don't think the Leaf is some shit box death trap

buttnkdwonder said:

It seems very strange to me that the owner of one of the best cases out there (if not the best) would preoccupy himself with this very public tirade against a competitor. At best it tells us what we already know--JB cases are better products

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Until I read the challenge from Michael on Facebook, I was not aware of this conflict. If someone challenges you and questions your ethics, both personal and business, what would YOU do?

The rest of your post was well written and I agree with most of it. Making John the bad guy here seems to be presumptive as WE do not know all the facts. And may never know them.

Lyn

cardiac kid said:

Until I read the challenge from Michael on Facebook, I was not aware of this conflict. If someone challenges you and questions your ethics, both personal and business, what would YOU do?

The rest of your post was well written and I agree with most of it. Making John the bad guy here seems to be presumptive as WE do not know all the facts. And may never know them.

Lyn

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I'm not aware of any of the history of this conflict and who started what. Even so, I think a smart business owner would be better off not engaging regardless of how he's provoked on social media. He doesn't stand to benefit in any way--instead he has validated a competitor's challenge through an escalated response. Consumers won't stop buying JB cases because some competitor has something to say about the owner on Facebook, but they may consider Acme cases instead if they see that JB is so concerned about them that he responds and then escalates the situation, thus increasing awareness of the Acme brand. Who cares what this Michael character thinks? JB it seems, and likely to his own personal and professional detriment no less.

You must be new lol Jb has done this to every other case maker out there including great case makers like jack justis. You get what you give. At some point jb grew up though and apologized to jack and honestly I haven’t read him doing that in a long time but he’s done it lol

As far as cases acme is fine if you want a cheap case. You get what you pay for. But the interior of a jb case is 2nd to none. I loved my justis case ...jbs interior he put in it for me made it perfect.

buttnkdwonder said:

Before this thread I had never heard of Acme cases. It seems the clear consensus opinion that JB makes the best cases--but they are also priced accordingly. Acme on the other hand aren't the same quality as the JB but I haven't hear anyone say they are of poor quality; rather, they just don't meet the standards of the JB. Which is unsurprising considering the price points.

I'd much rather drive a Mercedes than a Honda but the Honda will still get me from point A to point B. Does Mercedes bother with trying to convince Honda drivers that they are driving an inferior car? Not really--they know their demo and market accordingly.

It seems very strange to me that the owner of one of the best cases out there (if not the best) would preoccupy himself with this very public tirade against a competitor. At best it tells us what we already know--JB cases are better products and are priced as such--and at worst it introduces to a consumer like me a direct competitor to his cases. Reading this thread, John doesn't seem to give the average consumer a lot of credit in their ability to discern what's quality and what's a little less than quality.

Not something I'd hold against him per se. If I were in the market for a case I'd buy the product based on some combination of quality and price, and not who owns the business. But it's very difficult to see how this tact is in any way beneficial to him. For me, I now have the impetus to research Acme cases and compare alongside JB and other competitors and react accordingly, while prior to this thread I was more in the JB or bust crowd. John clearly seems them as a valid competitor, so I suppose I should do the same.

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I had never really compared the two, I just knew that I have been using a JB Rugged
and it has suited me just fine and served my needs quite well.
At the APA event I thought I might as well look at the two cases up close and as I
suspected, just like everything else - You get what you pay for.
As a pool player, you can put you treasured cues in a an Acme case and only have
yourself to blame if your cues get damaged. Lots of people will take that chance to save
a few bucks. or....
You can put your cues in a JB and rest easy in the knowledge that your cues will be
safe and sound, well protected and ready when you need them.
Personally, I prefer the quality of a JB, it's simply better and well worth what you might
pay for it.
Incidentally, I purchased my latest JB at the event and had a chance to talk to Karen
for a minute. She's so cool.
For me my history speaks to the difference, I own several JB cases, I own zero Acme
cases.

buttnkdwonder said:

I'm not aware of any of the history of this conflict and who started what. Even so, I think a smart business owner would be better off not engaging regardless of how he's provoked on social media. He doesn't stand to benefit in any way--instead he has validated a competitor's challenge through an escalated response. Consumers won't stop buying JB cases because some competitor has something to say about the owner on Facebook, but they may consider Acme cases instead if they see that JB is so concerned about them that he responds and then escalates the situation, thus increasing awareness of the Acme brand. Who cares what this Michael character thinks? JB it seems, and likely to his own personal and professional detriment no less.

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I care. He advertises the cases at $226 and writes bullet points that claim quality characteristics that the knockoffs he sells don't actually have. That practice is not only illegal but it is also a slap in the face to his customers in my opinion.

Then to add further insult he claims in private, because he is too cowardly to state it publicly, that he actually designed the JB Rugged Cases distinguishable and recognizable look and that I stole that look from him. That is beyond ridiculous and the moment I introduced the Ruggeds is easy to find on AZB. As well I have debuted all the cases that preceded the Rugged (tm) line from which one can clearly the see the lineage leading to the Rugged models.


Mike Hoang lied to the police and filed a false report. He then used that report to cause me to be absent from two major shows. Then he used the report to pressure a promoter to choose between us. I told the promoter that I would honor the merchandise agreement throughout the series even though he was being forced to remove my logo. Mike is sending emails containing outright lies and "working" the phones making claims that are untrue to attempt to cause more professional harm.

All this because he cannot stand that I call them knockoffs and because I expose the lies he tells and the fake "retail" price - big discount scam. The fact is that we cater to the type of customer who wants high quality and knows to look for it. If I lose a sale to Omega because that type of customer was fooled by lies then eventually we get them anyway when the ACME case disintegrates.

This is the person who copied the X-breaker as the creator was dying of cancer. A true prince among men that guy. That's why I care.

It's not about advertising for ACME, it's about exposing them for what they are and about exposing the unethical and criminal behavior of Mike Hoang.


At this point in our business we sell every case we make and stay booked solid. Any extra cases we have for general sale are literally "overtime" cases. I could forget all other case maker's names and stay busy for the next century because the volume we can produce is nowhere close to demand. But I will not stand for lies used to sell competing products. If you want to compete with me then do it fairly on the REAL merits or demerits. I don't tolerate BS to sell cases and if no one else will tear into those claims then I will. And the idea of even trying to think that you would get away with claiming that your knockoff isn't a knockoff because you claim that you actually came up with the design first is just plain delusional.


My staff works too hard to listen to that nonsense and fade consumers saying to each other inside of our booth and claiming online that those knockoffs are just as good based on the importer's claims. While they laugh at that it's also distracting to have to debunk the lies that Omega tells about the ACME cases frequently.

That's why I care.

trob said:

You must be new lol Jb has done this to every other case maker out there including great case makers like jack justis. You get what you give. At some point jb grew up though and apologized to jack and honestly I haven’t read him doing that in a long time but he’s done it lol

As far as cases acme is fine if you want a cheap case. You get what you pay for. But the interior of a jb case is 2nd to none. I loved my justis case ...jbs interior he put in it for me made it perfect.

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You need to truly stop. You ragged on Jack in my booth. I had nothing to apologize to Jack for other than getting too worked up. I was the one unfairly attacked and accused of copying when I had nothing to do with the case that was being shown.


As for your every other case maker comment here is a list of living active casemakers that I have not said a single negative word about and many of whom I have actively praised.


Dennis Swift
Joe and Jill Whitten
Rusty Melton
Chuck Fields (now retired)
Garth Bair
Juergen Hinkel
Marc Turcasso (currently inactive I think)
Rex Goulet
Al Kinghorn
Tony Viesti
Robert Milane


And more that slip my mind at the moment.

Point being that I call BS when I see it. And you ALSO called BS when you saw it. Do you remember what you were told when you said you didn't like the cues rattling around in the original liner? If not try because you seemed flabbergasted at the advice you were given. Why you turned on me is unclear but your attacks since then have contained many inaccuracies.

Update on the accusations of battery:

The detective closed the case for insufficient evidence. Until a few days ago I had not seen the police report.

Mike Hoang claimed I headbutted him but had zero mark on him and refused medical treatment. His witnesses said they saw no battery and they also refused to give a statement. No video evidence was presented.

I will be pursuing all available remedies under the law in civil court to have Mike Hoang answer for the many crimes he has committed against me.

JB Cases said:

....
As for your every other case maker comment here is a list of living active casemakers that I have not said a single negative word about and many of whom I have actively praised.


Dennis Swift
Joe and Jill Whitten
Rusty Melton
Chuck Fields (now retired)
Garth Bair
Juergen Hinkel
Marc Turcasso (currently inactive I think)
Rex Goulet
Al Kinghorn
Tony Viesti
Robert Milane....

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Not only was John kind to me in his public statements, he was a HUGE help behind the scenes with supplying knowledge. In our business dealings, he was always fair and honest.

JB Cases said:

Update on the accusations of battery:

The detective closed the case for insufficient evidence. Until a few days ago I had not seen the police report.

Mike Hoang claimed I headbutted him but had zero mark on him and refused medical treatment. His witnesses said they saw no battery and they also refused to give a statement. No video evidence was presented.

I will be pursuing all available remedies under the law in civil court to have Mike Hoang answer for the many crimes he has committed against me.

Click to expand...

And what are they ,,

1

one stroke said:

And what are they ,,

1

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Sounds like giving a false statement to a police officer for starters.

Does everyone on here handle their cases like the gorilla on the Samsonite commercials in the 80s or something? I've been using cases for my cues for 25 years and never had damage caused by my case.

Also, I'll buy up all of those useless high-end cases with broken zippers you guys complain about here. The leather / shoe repair guys replaces those for like $13.
My old instroke has had every zipper on it replaced as well as the clasps. My US made Whitten is still as good as it was the day I bought it, but it doesn't leave the house much.