The proper thought process for giving weight?

336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Recently I got back into 9-ball and 10-ball from playing One Pocket for a long
period then 8-ball and I'm really enjoying it but I'm having to give up weight which is
causing me to have to adjust my thinking and I'm getting it my scores against those I'm
giving weight to are starting to climb but I'm always looking for ways to improve my
thought process and strategy. Does anyone who is more experienced have a thought
process routine that's helped them. I have to give a load of weight in a 10-ball (no slop)
tournament this coming and could use any help I could get on that end. Any thoughts would help me. I'm getting it, I just need to polish it.
 
D

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i am always on the getting weight end of it
i remember the first time i ever played a game of one pocket even

before i had always had all the breaks and balls


the first ime i ran into someone i could play even,
this was unusual ,seldom will a player who shoots
my speed or worse bet $500 a game or even $100


well i was surprised to be shooting after the break because
i didn't know how to get out of the break


if you really are a good player then just run out and quit worrying,
then duck and let the weaker player worry

if i were able to spot weaker players,i would gladly do it,
often weak players fall dead against good players and not only that

they have money these days
perhaps they are stakehorses

good players are usually lock artist,give me a big stake horse every time

let him do his own playing,explain to hm
now you don't have to put up all the money for half the profit

makes sense
 
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Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Are you talking about the mental end of playing when you are giving, or the negotiation of giving?
 
N

nodeflection

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A lot of weight I like to play extra cautious, but at times you have to get out to let them know why they are getting the weight. I try to find what strategy will make the other player get out of any zone they might have. If the guy is weak strategically and pockets balls pretty strong. I will shoot at crazy shots if I have a good chance of leaving my opponent bad. If I make some he will be shooting at terrible shots and selling out the rest of the match. If I miss and get good rolls they explode. A lot of people getting a lot of weight crumble if they miss 3 or 4 kick shots, thinking you are a nit if you play a few unnecessary safes. Nothing like missing a few balls early when they have no chance to get out to make them overconfident. You have to like that it is call shot 10 ball that makes things a little easier to fade.
 
DelawareDogs

DelawareDogs

The Double Deuce…
Silver Member
336Robin said:
Recently I got back into 9-ball and 10-ball from playing One Pocket for a long
period then 8-ball and I'm really enjoying it but I'm having to give up weight which is
causing me to have to adjust my thinking and I'm getting it my scores against those I'm
giving weight to are starting to climb but I'm always looking for ways to improve my
thought process and strategy. Does anyone who is more experienced have a thought
process routine that's helped them. I have to give a load of weight in a 10-ball (no slop)
tournament this coming and could use any help I could get on that end. Any thoughts would help me. I'm getting it, I just need to polish it.
Click to expand...

First off, huge congrats on getting that gear and having to give up a bunch of weight. That's a good problem to have!!:thumbup:

What kind of weight will determine what you need to do (as I'm sure you know). If you're giving games, you gotta blitz 'em. Make it to where it's back to an even race as soon as you can, then keep on the attack.

If it's balls as weight, you have to protect them. Play your game, but always be mindful of where that ball(s) is, can your opponent run that many, can you tie it up? Be sure of your out before you go for it.

Like you said, you're getting it just need to polish it. Sounds to me like you're on the path to awakening a monster.......
 
tucson9ball

tucson9ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
336Robin said:
Recently I got back into 9-ball and 10-ball from playing One Pocket for a long
period then 8-ball and I'm really enjoying it but I'm having to give up weight which is
causing me to have to adjust my thinking and I'm getting it my scores against those I'm
giving weight to are starting to climb but I'm always looking for ways to improve my
thought process and strategy. Does anyone who is more experienced have a thought
process routine that's helped them. I have to give a load of weight in a 10-ball (no slop)
tournament this coming and could use any help I could get on that end. Any thoughts would help me. I'm getting it, I just need to polish it.
Click to expand...

For rotation games of 9 and 10 ball, just use the Fargo ratings. Using their Fair Match to calculate races, it makes tournaments easy. You can use the medium or hot races, hot makes it a little better for the lower rated players to get in the money.
This also allows you to cap a tournament at say....600 max Fargo.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think it depends on the situation. There is a story here -- or maybe it was in RSB -- of a player in San Francisco named Filipino Gene. He was in a handicapped 9-ball match with him going to 5 and the opponent going to 2. The opponent somehow won the first game, score 1-0 and on the hill. Gene proceeded to 3-foul them five games in a row. Normally Gene just ran out.

The max safe strategy makes it much less likely to hang up the 8 or 9 on a skid and hand the 2 a game.

Of course the counter strategy on the part of the 2 is Move the Money. No point in trying to run out. But that is not an option in your no-slop tournament.
 
sjm

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
336Robin said:
Recently I got back into 9-ball and 10-ball from playing One Pocket for a long
period then 8-ball and I'm really enjoying it but I'm having to give up weight which is
causing me to have to adjust my thinking and I'm getting it my scores against those I'm
giving weight to are starting to climb but I'm always looking for ways to improve my
thought process and strategy. Does anyone who is more experienced have a thought
process routine that's helped them. I have to give a load of weight in a 10-ball (no slop)
tournament this coming and could use any help I could get on that end. Any thoughts would help me. I'm getting it, I just need to polish it.
Click to expand...

As you haven't indicated whether you're giving up games on the wire or ball spots, I'll touch on both.

Games on the Wire
When you are giving games on the wire, there aren't many adjustments, but you should be mentally collecting data about your opponent as a match progresses, and use that information against your opponent. Though I could probably write a 500 page book on this subject, let consider a few simple examples:

Kick Shots
If your opponent is a weak kicker, and players getting weight often will be, you should expect to gain a little more when you play safe, so when it's a close call, you might go defense over offense against such an opponent.

Bank shots
Whether opponent is good at bank shots should affect what you're willing to give up when you duck or play safe.

Push Out
Clocking your opponents' strengths and weaknesses will point you in the right direction when you push out, since you'll better gauge what you can and can't leave.

Ball Spots
All the aforementioned apply to ball spots, but there are a few additional adjustments.

If you are giving the eight as a spot in ten ball, there are loads of things to consider, but here's an example of an extra thing you can and should, from time to time, do:

Defense or Push
Using your defense or your pushout, worsen the position of the eight ball and, of course, knock it in if it sits over a pocket. Worsening the eight might mean any of these: a) freezing it to the nine, b) sending it further form the seven, c) knocking it near a rail, etc. By the same token, you can improve the position of the ten relative to the nine ball as it benefits you far more than your opponent. If the nine and ten are tied up with each other, that helps your opponent, so try to move them if the opportunity presents itself.

In short, there's no formula for it, but experience will show you that some adjustments are needed strategically.
 
Last edited:
DelawareDogs

DelawareDogs

The Double Deuce…
Silver Member
sjm said:
As you haven't indicated whether you're giving up games on the wire or ball spots, I'll touch on both.

Games on the Wire
When you are giving games on the wire, there aren't many adjustments, but you should be mentally collecting data about your opponent as a match progresses, and use that information against your opponent. Though I could probably write a 500 page book on this subject, let consider a few simple examples:

Kick Shots
If your opponent is a weak kicker, and players getting weight often will be, you should expect to gain a little more when you play safe, so when it's a close call, you might go defense over offense against such an opponent.

Bank shots
Whether opponent is good at bank shots should affect what you're willing to give up when you duck or play safe.

Push Out
Clocking your opponents' strengths and weaknesses will point you in the right direction when you push out, since you'll better gauge what you can and can't leave.

Ball Spots
All the aforementioned apply to ball spots, but there are a few additional adjustments.

If you are giving the eight as a spot in then ball, there are loads of things to consider, but here's an example of an extra thing you can and should, from time to time, do:

Defense or Push
Using your defense or your pushout, worsen the position of the eight ball and, of course, knock it in if it sits over a pocket. Worsening the eight might mean any of these: a) freezing it to the nine, b) sending it further form the seven, c) knocking it near a rail, etc. By the same token, you can improve the position of the ten relative to the nine ball as it benefits you far more than your opponent. If the nine and ten are tied up with each other, that helps your opponent, so try to move them if the opportunity presents itself.

In short, there's no formula for it, but experience will show you that some adjustments are needing strategically.
Click to expand...

Dropped a big bag of knowledge on this post! I'll need to reference this in the very near future.
 
336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Black-Balled said:
Are you talking about the mental end of playing when you are giving, or the negotiation of giving?
Click to expand...

Yes the mental end. Ive havent got a bunch of experience giving weight. Im
getting better at it but wondering if there is something in the thought process on
whether to go safe or try vs trying to get out. I recently started playing rotation again so
it hit me sideways to have to give weight.
 
D

DecentShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
336Robin said:
Recently I got back into 9-ball and 10-ball from playing One Pocket for a long
period then 8-ball and I'm really enjoying it but I'm having to give up weight which is
causing me to have to adjust my thinking and I'm getting it my scores against those I'm
giving weight to are starting to climb but I'm always looking for ways to improve my
thought process and strategy. Does anyone who is more experienced have a thought
process routine that's helped them. I have to give a load of weight in a 10-ball (no slop)
tournament this coming and could use any help I could get on that end. Any thoughts would help me. I'm getting it, I just need to polish it.
Click to expand...

Play better players.
 
336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
This yes this

Thank Stu,
I'll print this and read it over some and try to get this in my head for next time. I
liked the part about improving the location of your money ball. I'm giving up 2 games
on the wire and the 8 and 9 in a 10 ball no slop match.


sjm said:
As you haven't indicated whether you're giving up games on the wire or ball spots, I'll touch on both.

Games on the Wire
When you are giving games on the wire, there aren't many adjustments, but you should be mentally collecting data about your opponent as a match progresses, and use that information against your opponent. Though I could probably write a 500 page book on this subject, let consider a few simple examples:

Kick Shots
If your opponent is a weak kicker, and players getting weight often will be, you should expect to gain a little more when you play safe, so when it's a close call, you might go defense over offense against such an opponent.

Bank shots
Whether opponent is good at bank shots should affect what you're willing to give up when you duck or play safe.

Push Out
Clocking your opponents' strengths and weaknesses will point you in the right direction when you push out, since you'll better gauge what you can and can't leave.

Ball Spots
All the aforementioned apply to ball spots, but there are a few additional adjustments.

If you are giving the eight as a spot in then ball, there are loads of things to consider, but here's an example of an extra thing you can and should, from time to time, do:

Defense or Push
Using your defense or your pushout, worsen the position of the eight ball and, of course, knock it in if it sits over a pocket. Worsening the eight might mean any of these: a) freezing it to the nine, b) sending it further form the seven, c) knocking it near a rail, etc. By the same token, you can improve the position of the ten relative to the nine ball as it benefits you far more than your opponent. If the nine and ten are tied up with each other, that helps your opponent, so try to move them if the opportunity presents itself.

In short, there's no formula for it, but experience will show you that some adjustments are needing strategically.
Click to expand...
 
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alstl

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
10 ball against weak players - play safe a lot and make them try to kick.
 
R

RiverCity

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The proper thought process for giving weight?

If you are worrying about whether the spot is too big and you wont be able to out run it, you need to find softer action. :thumbup:
 
336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
RiverCity said:
The proper thought process for giving weight?

If you are worrying about whether the spot is too big and you wont be able to out run it, you need to find softer action. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

I already know this. I suck at giving weight but when I put my tournament fee
down, my worst fears became true. So instead of crying about it, I look at it like a challenge.
 
Hunter

Hunter

The King of Memes
Silver Member
Couple of things to be considered when getting or giving weight. If you're giving the weight, never give up wild balls on the break. All wild balls need to be call shots. It's amazing (when you give wild balls with no parameters) how many times your opponent will make balls they weren't planning for.

Even if you are a runout player, don't pass up an easy cheese shot. I play a guy that is about two speeds better than I am. He used to strictly run balls out instead of going for a makeable combo or an easy carom because he just thought he should be able to run out. If you are getting weight you should do the same.

If you are giving weight, be creative. Give up the last three balls with no wild balls. Games on the wire are pretty easy to overcome, too.

Always play a weaker player with longer sets. They don't have the luck factor working quite as well that way. Concurrently, if you are the weaker player, go for a shorter set where luck plays a bigger role.

Roll back games when you are hill/hill if you are the stronger player. Just more sets and less luck.

When you are giving weight, make sure that you are confident with a runout or tie your opponent up early. Chances are, if you're giving them weight, they aren't runout players. Leave them a kick shot on the 3 or 4 ball, where even if they luckily make the shot, they still can't get out.
 
336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
I appreciate everyones help. I lost the match and it was a total disaster. Short
race to 7. I gave two on the wire and the 8 and 9 in 10 ball. I like to refer to this as
giving the Woolly Mammoth Nuts and it ain't ever happening again.
 
R

RiverCity

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
336Robin said:
.... So instead of crying about it, I look at it like a challenge.
Click to expand...

That shit will get you broke.

If you play pool for money, you need to remove your ego from the equation.

There are guys who play lights out and can spot most people the world and still have the best of it.

But for us mortals, its about honest self evaluation, ability to accurately clock your opponents, and knowing what the spots do and dont do. That is if your intent is to MAKE money.

Or you can look at it as a "challenge", and enjoy your pb&j sammiches in your van, down by the river. :thumbup:
 
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