Simonis Std Green 860 -- their website Fails so I ask the experts

OTLB

OTLB

Banned
As many Technicians understand that when putting on Simonis 860 for example the cloth stretches only so far and thats it; why isn't there a std for this that a manufacturer like Simonis dictates. For example: When doing a std GC size table which is something we all do all the time why isn't there a number to go to. Length you should stretch 6 inches and the sides 2.5, of course those numbers are not accurate but you get the idea.

Have emailed Simonis before about this and fail to receive a response OF ANY KIND. Everyone talks about how much they stretch a cloth and bla bla bla. I want to know how much is right as a factory spec and not from a mechanic but since they don't know we could establish it ourselves. Really don't want to hear about this topic in words:eek: and variables, there is a certain amount of elongation and that coupled with strength will give us a number to shoot for.

If we use Ron's (LCCS) method we could determin what this is since Simonis doesn't know. Then we could also see if there is any significant difference between what one guy can do versus another both in method and strength.

We are going to have some fun now with this one. As I said I thought RON's idea of marking the edge with a marker was clever. When laid flat and at rest, the cloth measures let's just say 100 x 50 inches for example( I know its more). Then you stretch it, attach it, mark it and find how much you stretched it.

This could be one of the disciplines in a mechanic tournament. Of course you have to be able to finish the pockets off also.
 
OTLB

OTLB

Banned
As I said I don't want to get into variables but if you want to introduce it then you can record the level of humidity at that time. As it is winter and less humid in most of the country its not as much of an isuue right now.
 
realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
OTLB said:
As many Technicians understand that when putting on Simonis 860 for example the cloth stretches only so far and thats it; why isn't there a std for this that a manufacturer like Simonis dictates. For example: When doing a std GC size table which is something we all do all the time why isn't there a number to go to. Length you should stretch 6 inches and the sides 2.5, of course those numbers are not accurate but you get the idea.

Have emailed Simonis before about this and fail to receive a response OF ANY KIND. Everyone talks about how much they stretch a cloth and bla bla bla. I want to know how much is right as a factory spec and not from a mechanic but since they don't know we could establish it ourselves. Really don't want to hear about this topic in words:eek: and variables, there is a certain amount of elongation and that coupled with strength will give us a number to shoot for.

If we use Ron's (LCCS) method we could determin what this is since Simonis doesn't know. Then we could also see if there is any significant difference between what one guy can do versus another both in method and strength.

We are going to have some fun now with this one. As I said I thought RON's idea of marking the edge with a marker was clever. When laid flat and at rest, the cloth measures let's just say 100 x 50 inches for example( I know its more). Then you stretch it, attach it, mark it and find how much you stretched it.

This could be one of the disciplines in a mechanic tournament. Of course you have to be able to finish the pockets off also.
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So, what you're saying is that ALL cloth manufactures need to produce a stretch chart, so mechanics know how tight to install the cloth?

NOT a chance. Since all cloths are not made the same, then one needs to look at the method in which it's installed. When I teach how to install bed cloths, I have a test for each kind of cloth being installed, which tells me how much a mechanic can stretch the cloth they're working with, and it's that method that gives them the stretch index number to work with. It's very useful when working with a new cloth for the first time.

I'll give you an example. When installing Simonis 860 Tour Blue on a 9ft table, I can stretch the cloth side to side 3 1/2" when taking my test, so I back off 1/2" and my installation stretch becomes 3". Now that I know my stretch index is 3" on a 9ft, lets say I'm doing a 7ft for example. Take the 3" stretch for a 9ft, divide that by 57" for the width of the slate, that comes up to .0526315" inches stretch per inch of the 57" slate. Now take the 47" of the 7ft slate an times the stretch of the 9ft, and you come up with 2.47" inches of stretch for the 7ft slate. So I round it off, and mark out the 7ft stretch at 2 1/2" inches side to side. End to end has it's own rule of thumb, but I'm not going to explain that right now:wink:
 
realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
When you can do pocket work like this ALL the time, on any kind of table with backing under the slate, why look for a better way of finishing off the pockets?

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OTLB, post some pictures of the pocket work you did on your GC4 Snooker table, I'd be interested in seeing how you've finished off the pockets on that table:wink:

Glen
 
OTLB

OTLB

Banned
when I get home I will take pics and post with my response, right now I am playing pool
 
TheTablePro

TheTablePro

Active member
Silver Member
Glen - what are you using for an insert in your pocket cuts? I recall Donny posting one awhile back and it looks like a piece of plastic. Care to share? Thanks.

Robin


realkingcobra said:
When you can do pocket work like this ALL the time, on any kind of table with backing under the slate, why look for a better way of finishing off the pockets?

View attachment 86479

View attachment 86480

OTLB, post some pictures of the pocket work you did on your GC4 Snooker table, I'd be interested in seeing how you've finished off the pockets on that table:wink:

Glen
Click to expand...
 
scruffy1

scruffy1

New member
Silver Member
You gotta pay attn! LOL. I will answer for him since he did post this tip
already. Its plumbing strap. Sold at home depot and probably lots of other places. Used to hang pipes from joists. Works great!!!
 
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realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
RKC .JPG

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I use the white strapping table, in the pictures you can see just how I use it for perfect pockets every time:wink:
 
OTLB

OTLB

Banned
side pocket, this table is a GC V and remember it doesn't have anything in between the slates like bondo or wax or glue. They are .002 apart and seamless.:)

I have a response for your initial answers to my questions but I really think you wouldn't like it, so I won't put it here.
 

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OTLB

OTLB

Banned
front view, actual size as shown at 3 inches
 

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realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
OTLB, nice pocket work, but the only way you can finish pockets like that with Simonis, is to give up some of the stretch, so though you may have the cloth on tight, it's not nearly as tight as Simonis can be installed, and trust me, tighter IS better;) Look in this picture at my body stance, and how tight I'm pulling the cloth to the corner of the slate, keep in mind...no staples;)

Glen
 

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cowboy395

cowboy395

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No staples

RKC can you show how you install without any staples on the sides of the slate? Very clean installation.
 
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