My dissapointment with Ki-techs and Great White chalk

kanecalgary

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So, I haven't been around lately and not up to date with what's been going on but here is a my review that might help someone.

First, I have supported AZ'ers like Tom Hay with Ultraskins, Pooldawgs milk duds, bought my Lucasi Air Hog, Hanshew jump, JB case, magic racks, case of triangle green for snooker, case of Blue Diamond for playing and Renfro with his Ki-techs and Great White chalk.

I first tried Renfro's sampler pack of Ki-techs when they first came out and had glowing reviews. I had the soft installed first and noticed the core had a darker color like it was injected and the outer edge of the tip had a lighter color. This I believe had a effect of different hardness whenever each piece contacted the cue ball when applying varying english. It was the most inconsistent tip I've ever played with! I couldn't judge how much spin would actually take. We mainly play barbox 8 ball around here and its all about small movements and being very accurate with shape. After 2 months of solid play I gave up guessing with this tip and tried a short lived medium Ki-tech. It just wasn't for me.

I PM'ed Renfro and he graciously offered a new sampler free of charge saying the quality control has increased and that would not happen again. I agreed to give them another try and the soft and medium in the new pack were nothing special at all and I decided to stop wasting money on installs. FYI, my favorite tip was a Kamui med/soft brown that has now been discontinued. I also like a Onyx and currently play with Kamui black soft. I'm awaiting a shipment to come in to try out the G2's.

The only positive I can think of is that first soft never mushroomed after 2 months of solid play.


Lastly, I decided to order the Great White chalk package with a magnetic holder and 2 cubes when it came out. Awaiting for it to arrive to Canada mixed reviews started coming in. That's when I realized it was gonna make a mess and room owners would not appreciate it leaving white marks all over. I ordered it believing it was thoroughly tested and this was not a issue.

So finally after months I decided to try it today on my Diamond pro am with blue Simonis. I shot 3 full racks or 8 ball and my table is filthy and that was enough for me. My chalking hand (right and butt holder of the cue) was covered in white powder. My leather grip on my 3k custom was also filled with powder that stuck out like a sore thumb on my black cue. My table has white marks and chunks of chalk all over. The rails have white powder on them and even my carpet has noticible white chunks I can see. I was wearing a grey shirt so not sure if a black would've had noticeable powder on it.

The positives, it was good chalk and grabbed the cue ball nice but not worth the mess and price. Magnetic feature is nice for some people.

At the end of the day I will no longer accept Renfro's quality control tests and believe they should be further tested before hitting the for sale market. I feel like trying to support a fellow AZ'er and believing the hype got me in this mess! Literally.

I love what he's doing and glad someone's trying to make a difference in the pool world. Props to him. I just finally felt compelled to tell my experience with his products after today's mess. The cubes of chalk will end up in the garbage.

I still was reluctant to post my experience but I decided to come to AZ today for some Magic Chalk or a case of Blue Diamond and thought mine as well post my results.

Just to be clear, I will not accept a refund or new sample, I just wanted to voice my experience.

I know it's long and thanks if you made it through to the end. I probably won't be on much to respond in a timely manner but if video of the mess is needed as proof I could make one and supply it in the future.

Happy holidays everyone.
 

mortuarymike-nv

mortuarymike-nv
Silver Member
Tips

So, I haven't been around lately and not up to date with what's been going on but here is a my review that might help someone.

First, I have supported AZ'ers like Tom Hay with Ultraskins, Pooldawgs milk duds, bought my Lucasi Air Hog, Hanshew jump, JB case, magic racks, case of triangle green for snooker, case of Blue Diamond for playing and Renfro with his Ki-techs and Great White chalk.

I first tried Renfro's sampler pack of Ki-techs when they first came out and had glowing reviews. I had the soft installed first and noticed the core had a darker color like it was injected and the outer edge of the tip had a lighter color. This I believe had a effect of different hardness whenever each piece contacted the cue ball when applying varying english. It was the most inconsistent tip I've ever played with! I couldn't judge how much spin would actually take. We mainly play barbox 8 ball around here and its all about small movements and being very accurate with shape. After 2 months of solid play I gave up guessing with this tip and tried a short lived medium Ki-tech. It just wasn't for me.

I PM'ed Renfro and he graciously offered a new sampler free of charge saying the quality control has increased and that would not happen again. I agreed to give them another try and the soft and medium in the new pack were nothing special at all and I decided to stop wasting money on installs. FYI, my favorite tip was a Kamui med/soft brown that has now been discontinued. I also like a Onyx and currently play with Kamui black soft. I'm awaiting a shipment to come in to try out the G2's.

The only positive I can think of is that first soft never mushroomed after 2 months of solid play.


Lastly, I decided to order the Great White chalk package with a magnetic holder and 2 cubes when it came out. Awaiting for it to arrive to Canada mixed reviews started coming in. That's when I realized it was gonna make a mess and room owners would not appreciate it leaving white marks all over. I ordered it believing it was thoroughly tested and this was not a issue.

So finally after months I decided to try it today on my Diamond pro am with blue Simonis. I shot 3 full racks or 8 ball and my table is filthy and that was enough for me. My chalking hand (right and butt holder of the cue) was covered in white powder. My leather grip on my 3k custom was also filled with powder that stuck out like a sore thumb on my black cue. My table has white marks and chunks of chalk all over. The rails have white powder on them and even my carpet has noticible white chunks I can see. I was wearing a grey shirt so not sure if a black would've had noticeable powder on it.

The positives, it was good chalk and grabbed the cue ball nice but not worth the mess and price. Magnetic feature is nice for some people.

At the end of the day I will no longer accept Renfro's quality control tests and believe they should be further tested before hitting the for sale market. I feel like trying to support a fellow AZ'er and believing the hype got me in this mess! Literally.

I love what he's doing and glad someone's trying to make a difference in the pool world. Props to him. I just finally felt compelled to tell my experience with his products after today's mess. The cubes of chalk will end up in the garbage.

I still was reluctant to post my experience but I decided to come to AZ today for some Magic Chalk or a case of Blue Diamond and thought mine as well post my results.

Just to be clear, I will not accept a refund or new sample, I just wanted to voice my experience.

I know it's long and thanks if you made it through to the end. I probably won't be on much to respond in a timely manner but if video of the mess is needed as proof I could make one and supply it in the future.

Happy holidays everyone.

I have 2 kamui medium brows in stock
 

kanecalgary

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have 2 kamui medium brows in stock

The tip that they stopped making was a Kamui medium soft brown. It displayed MS on it.

I've tried the medium brown, med black. Soft and super soft blacks and brown soft. Out of the 6 M/S I had 4 played the best I've ever had and haven't found anything that matches it for the whole life of the tip. Onyx is great but gets too hard after a while. Kamui black soft is good and doing the job but hoping these G2's are comparable to the M/S.

If you have any M/S Browns I would take them off your hands.
 

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
So, I haven't been around lately and not up to date with what's been going on but here is a my review that might help someone.

First, I have supported AZ'ers like Tom Hay with Ultraskins, Pooldawgs milk duds, bought my Lucasi Air Hog, Hanshew jump, JB case, magic racks, case of triangle green for snooker, case of Blue Diamond for playing and Renfro with his Ki-techs and Great White chalk.

I first tried Renfro's sampler pack of Ki-techs when they first came out and had glowing reviews. I had the soft installed first and noticed the core had a darker color like it was injected and the outer edge of the tip had a lighter color. This I believe had a effect of different hardness whenever each piece contacted the cue ball when applying varying english. It was the most inconsistent tip I've ever played with! I couldn't judge how much spin would actually take. We mainly play barbox 8 ball around here and its all about small movements and being very accurate with shape. After 2 months of solid play I gave up guessing with this tip and tried a short lived medium Ki-tech. It just wasn't for me.

I PM'ed Renfro and he graciously offered a new sampler free of charge saying the quality control has increased and that would not happen again. I agreed to give them another try and the soft and medium in the new pack were nothing special at all and I decided to stop wasting money on installs. FYI, my favorite tip was a Kamui med/soft brown that has now been discontinued. I also like a Onyx and currently play with Kamui black soft. I'm awaiting a shipment to come in to try out the G2's.

The only positive I can think of is that first soft never mushroomed after 2 months of solid play.


Lastly, I decided to order the Great White chalk package with a magnetic holder and 2 cubes when it came out. Awaiting for it to arrive to Canada mixed reviews started coming in. That's when I realized it was gonna make a mess and room owners would not appreciate it leaving white marks all over. I ordered it believing it was thoroughly tested and this was not a issue.

So finally after months I decided to try it today on my Diamond pro am with blue Simonis. I shot 3 full racks or 8 ball and my table is filthy and that was enough for me. My chalking hand (right and butt holder of the cue) was covered in white powder. My leather grip on my 3k custom was also filled with powder that stuck out like a sore thumb on my black cue. My table has white marks and chunks of chalk all over. The rails have white powder on them and even my carpet has noticible white chunks I can see. I was wearing a grey shirt so not sure if a black would've had noticeable powder on it.

The positives, it was good chalk and grabbed the cue ball nice but not worth the mess and price. Magnetic feature is nice for some people.

At the end of the day I will no longer accept Renfro's quality control tests and believe they should be further tested before hitting the for sale market. I feel like trying to support a fellow AZ'er and believing the hype got me in this mess! Literally.

I love what he's doing and glad someone's trying to make a difference in the pool world. Props to him. I just finally felt compelled to tell my experience with his products after today's mess. The cubes of chalk will end up in the garbage.

I still was reluctant to post my experience but I decided to come to AZ today for some Magic Chalk or a case of Blue Diamond and thought mine as well post my results.

Just to be clear, I will not accept a refund or new sample, I just wanted to voice my experience.

I know it's long and thanks if you made it through to the end. I probably won't be on much to respond in a timely manner but if video of the mess is needed as proof I could make one and supply it in the future.

Happy holidays everyone.

Appreciate the reviews... As noted when the Great White came out we did have QC problems last was last Christmas and the problem was identified as a refurbished mixer that was aerating the chalk.

We sent tons of make up chalk to the people that ordered and had the problems with the chalk flaking... The Current Great White in Original White and the Mako blue doesn't have the same flaking issues...

As for the tips.. They are not everyone's cup of tea... I am OK with that and we have a long list of customers that are on the other side of the fence from you....

We warranty all of our products and have since day one... That's the one thing that we will always do... Since we make our products we have to stand behind them and had you contacted us about the initial chalk from last year we would have gladly sent you replacement pieces like we did for others....

We want all reviews good or bad... Sooner rather than later is preferred tho as the Great White from a year ago is not even close to what we make and ship today aside from the formula itself.....

Merry Christmas,

Chris
 

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Being along for the ride is part of the experience.

With all due respect to Kanecalgary, I would like to take the opportunity to post some thoughts, as always, in my opinion.....

I met Mr Renfro last year at the accu stats 8 ball invitational where he was working for the accu stats crew. It was there that I learned all about the Outsville line of business. Renfro is one of the wisest/most knowledgeable insiders of the pool world that I have ever met. I learned a ton from him and still do.

I was an early purchaser of Ki-tech tips and great white chalk as well as the accu rack.

First, I play medium Kamui black tips, and had a Ki-Tech medium installed on my back-up shaft. After an unfortunate break on my main shaft, I have been using the Ki-Tech medium pretty steady for the last month. Unreal how it holds its shape and plays very well for a non layered tip. For those who like solid leather tips, these are the ones for you.

I also had a similar experience with the great white. His early batch had some extra air added which made it a little fluffy and flakey. Renfro backed me up with some good ones at SBexpo when I hung out him and talked shop for a bit in the JB cases booth. The next batch was just fine. The new great white performed just fine.

As for the mess...I also play Kamui chalk, which leaves it's fair share amount of chalk lines and shrapnel. But that isn't anything new. So if the great white gets somewhere, I'm not bothered in the least. In fact, on my home table, modified gold crown with blue simonis, I play the hell out of it and dirty cloth, with a battlefield of chalk marks is a badge of honor to me, in the same way a blue shaft is....I take it as a sign I've been working hard at the game. The table can always be cleaned.

In a previous thread, Renfro explained how to make a chalk that battles Kamui in the less abrasive/creamy category there is a ton of beta testing and then player reviews and then reworking formulas that goes on. Kamui had the budget to do a lot more faster. Renfro seems to have hit his stride with the Blue Mako line, which I'm anxious to get my hands on.

My final thought after reading the OP post was that being on the ground floor of something is part of the experience. When Bill Bowerman was ruining his wife's waffle iron making the first series of Nike running shoes in the 60s, many fell apart while being worn during track competitions. Fifty years later, I'll bet every one who had a defective pair brags that they had an original Nike running shoe...even though they didn't last a hundred miles...being in on the ground floor was the experience.

That's how I see Renfro and Outsville. I'll still support his efforts with my cash (the cost isn't crazy out of control either) because competition and innovation in this industry makes it better.
 

kanecalgary

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Appreciate the reviews... As noted when the Great White came out we did have QC problems last was last Christmas and the problem was identified as a refurbished mixer that was aerating the chalk.

We sent tons of make up chalk to the people that ordered and had the problems with the chalk flaking... The Current Great White in Original White and the Mako blue doesn't have the same flaking issues...

As for the tips.. They are not everyone's cup of tea... I am OK with that and we have a long list of customers that are on the other side of the fence from you....

We warranty all of our products and have since day one... That's the one thing that we will always do... Since we make our products we have to stand behind them and had you contacted us about the initial chalk from last year we would have gladly sent you replacement pieces like we did for others....

We want all reviews good or bad... Sooner rather than later is preferred tho as the Great White from a year ago is not even close to what we make and ship today aside from the formula itself.....

Merry Christmas,

Chris

Thanks for the reply Chris and information.

The tips are not for everyone, but no tip is. I'm glad your QC on your tips and chalk have improved. I was just tired of being a guinea pig and spending money on a bad batch of tips and bad batch of Great White chalk plus install fees on tips and shipping to Canada.

I contacted you the first time privately about the tips and had a replacement sample sent free of charge, thank you again for standing behind your product. I still did not like the tip, but that was fine with me.

I only tried the chalk today but I gave up on Outsville's products last year when again there was issues with both my orders and QC. I didn't want anything to do with Outsville anymore. I only posted today because I finally gave your 'old' Great White a try and I now have a mess to clean up! Lol

I hope you continue to be innovative and create new products for the game.

Merry Christmas too,

Steve
 

slide13

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Appreciate the reviews... As noted when the Great White came out we did have QC problems last was last Christmas and the problem was identified as a refurbished mixer that was aerating the chalk.

We sent tons of make up chalk to the people that ordered and had the problems with the chalk flaking... The Current Great White in Original White and the Mako blue doesn't have the same flaking issues...

As for the tips.. They are not everyone's cup of tea... I am OK with that and we have a long list of customers that are on the other side of the fence from you....

We warranty all of our products and have since day one... That's the one thing that we will always do... Since we make our products we have to stand behind them and had you contacted us about the initial chalk from last year we would have gladly sent you replacement pieces like we did for others....

We want all reviews good or bad... Sooner rather than later is preferred tho as the Great White from a year ago is not even close to what we make and ship today aside from the formula itself.....

Merry Christmas,

Chris


:thumbup:

And that's how a stand up company handles that. Well done! Makes me want to try your products.
 

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
Thanks for the reply Chris and information.

The tips are not for everyone, but no tip is. I'm glad your QC on your tips and chalk have improved. I was just tired of being a guinea pig and spending money on a bad batch of tips and bad batch of Great White chalk plus install fees on tips and shipping to Canada.

I contacted you the first time privately about the tips and had a replacement sample sent free of charge, thank you again for standing behind your product. I still did not like the tip, but that was fine with me.

I only tried the chalk today but I gave up on Outsville's products last year when again there was issues with both my orders and QC. I didn't want anything to do with Outsville anymore. I only posted today because I finally gave your 'old' Great White a try and I now have a mess to clean up! Lol

I hope you continue to be innovative and create new products for the game.

Merry Christmas too,

Steve

Thanks Steve,

I would be more than happy to send you some Blue Mako that you can take to the pool room with you... Just PM me an address and I will get some out to you Monday.......

Chris
 

kanecalgary

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks Steve,

I would be more than happy to send you some Blue Mako that you can take to the pool room with you... Just PM me an address and I will get some out to you Monday.......

Chris

Again, this shows how much of a class act you and your company are!

Originally I posted in my Facebook group looking for BD locally or someone that has Magic or Blue Great White.

After that I rummaged through old pool stuff and gave the Great White a try and felt compelled to post my experience. I've been away from AZ for a while and nobody ever had a bad thing to say or they didn't say it like myself publicly before.

I've decided to try the Magic and continue with the BD until I get my hands on some.

Thanks for the offer on the Maco but if I go that route I would like to purchase it. I realize now I was in the testing phase but when I purchased I was unaware of any problems till it was too late.

Thanks Chris and hope you have continued success.

Steve
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
I have some new chalk that I got at the TAP Nationals and I don't see any problems with the white or the blue on out table.

I use a Ki-Tech soft on my cue and it works great.

I can definitely understand Chris having early problems with chalk and tips as he is practically a one-man band at this point. To date though he has made good on any products that have had issues.

I would stick with him and at least take replacements if offered.
 

mortuarymike-nv

mortuarymike-nv
Silver Member
Example

Thanks Steve,

I would be more than happy to send you some Blue Mako that you can take to the pool room with you... Just PM me an address and I will get some out to you Monday.......

Chris

Way cool you going all the way to trying to please a customer.
+ 1 for your efforts.............................
 

jrackman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Way cool you going all the way to trying to please a customer.
+ 1 for your efforts.............................
I agree, and on both sides the way it was handled was nothing less then professional. Kudos to both of you! Maybe some will learn from this thread.
 

Bank it

Uh Huh, Sounds Legit
Silver Member
I tried one of these tips as I'm a single layer tip fan using Triangles for forever now. I noticed when I cut it on the lathe using a new blade that these tips seem unusual. It's almost like standard leather tips from another manufacturer that have been impregnated with a plethora of chemicals, not just a standard leather tip. Can anyone comment on this?
 

caff3in3

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks Steve,

I would be more than happy to send you some Blue Mako that you can take to the pool room with you... Just PM me an address and I will get some out to you Monday.......

Chris
This is exactly how a company can be run. Kudos to you. Some business owners would be bent out of shape. You know the value of feedback (positive and negative) and how to handle customer service.

New customer here. Will be ordering when my current tip gets low.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
 

RichSchultz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I love my Great White. It is the newer formulation but it still leaves white all over the tables in my pool hall. I am sure they hate that, so I have to stop using it. Bummer.
 

ZeroSkylineX

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is exactly how a company can be run. Kudos to you. Some business owners would be bent out of shape. You know the value of feedback (positive and negative) and how to handle customer service.

New customer here. Will be ordering when my current tip gets low.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
You should order now, he has lowered the free shipping requirement to the US from purchases over $70 to $50, lowered the prices on his bundle packages and offers 10% off on all purchases with promo code Christmas until Dec 26 2015. I haven't seen Chris offer deals like this in a while so I highly advise anyone to take advantage of it.
 

measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been using Ki Tech tips for awhile and have decided the hard tip and Blue Diamond chalk work for me.
I have a history of miscuing. I tend to spin the cue ball with extreme English.
There have been a couple layered tips that got cut off and left to rot on the pool room floor they were so bad.
Yesterday I practiced straight pool for about an hour.
Then I played 2 sets of 10 ball. I won 9-4 and 9-1.
Then played 5 games of 8 ball.
Total of about 3 hours.
I miscued once.
I'm good with this.
 

mortuarymike-nv

mortuarymike-nv
Silver Member
Cutting tips

I tried one of these tips as I'm a single layer tip fan using Triangles for forever now. I noticed when I cut it on the lathe using a new blade that these tips seem unusual. It's almost like standard leather tips from another manufacturer that have been impregnated with a plethora of chemicals, not just a standard leather tip. Can anyone comment on this?


Not a tip or a cue chucked up in the picture but I wanted to show the angle on the trimmer.
My point is I cut all the tips with a live cutter .

I had issues with elk masters swelling up. I am sure my cutter was a little dull.
Now I don't use a carbide cutter on the tool post .

It does a extremely clean job every time ..

 
Top