I tried CTE again

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
At league right now practicing. Decided to give it a try again

Ran a 22. My high run is 36

Broke and ran my first rack of 9 ball

Feels good

I’ll use it in my match if I have to play.



*this in no way changed my opinion that the subconscious is a big reason it works. But I do believe with practice it could be a good PSR

if that’s GFM so be it
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Feels good
...
I do believe with practice it could be a good PSR
Yes, and helpful with aiming too. I think the two-line reference and the pivot to final aim can both promote heightened focus and efficient memorization/recall. There are definitely things anybody, user or not, could learn from some of CTE's techniques.

pj
chgo
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
At league right now practicing. Decided to give it a try again

Ran a 22. My high run is 36

Broke and ran my first rack of 9 ball

Feels good

I’ll use it in my match if I have to play.



*this in no way changed my opinion that the subconscious is a big reason it works. But I do believe with practice it could be a good PSR

if that’s GFM so be it

Awesome!! Stroke em up! I agree that it probably makes for a good PSR, and also that the subconscious has a role to play with making it work precisely as needed.
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
I'm going to go against my better judgement and post once again my experience With CTE, but maybe I'll add something that I haven't really talked about before.

I tried mechanical pivoting for about 1 month of solid 6-8 hour days, on a snooker table. Because if I can't get it to work there, then it's of no interest to me (that was my rationale). I'd make some very Nice shots super cleanly into the Pocket, which was encouraging. Then I'd run into shots that, no matter what I tried, I could not make without the cheating With English, slow stunning or other such tricks. I realized that I was going nowhere fast, so I tried more Pro 1 style play.

Shooting fast and loose and on Instinct, I did make the system work to a decent standard. Once I tried slowing Down and being super accurate, I'd run into all the same problems from before. Was what I was doing "proper" CTE? I have no idea. I don't really think I'm talented enough to shoot pool, looking at the cueball last. It's so hard to keep the cue aligned properly that way and I feel some Control over the shot may be lost. That's just an opinion. To be honest, when I was shooting fast, I'm not even sure where I actually had my eyes last, I'd sweep to center and then shoot, but did I move my eyes to the Object ball at the last moment? Can't really tell. I have a feeling I'd not pass the curtain test especially not With a curtain between my cueball and the Object ball after going to center.

I'd say that I COULD probably get this style of play to work, and I don't think I've ever said that the Method doesn't work at all. That being said, I have my doubts regarding going strictly by the book and making the system work that way, but if you can do it, I Guess nothing would be better. Anyway, I'm sort of glad I tried it. After all that hype, I would have regretted having never given it a go.

BTW, Bieber, didn't you have a run of 70+ some years ago? Am I misremembering? You did post some footage on an 8 footer, didn't you? Seem to remember a Nice run, but could have you mixed up With someone else. Anyway, kudos on the run.
 
Last edited:

duckie

GregH
Silver Member
At league right now practicing. Decided to give it a try again

Ran a 22. My high run is 36

Broke and ran my first rack of 9 ball

Feels good

I’ll use it in my match if I have to play.



*this in no way changed my opinion that the subconscious is a big reason it works. But I do believe with practice it could be a good PSR

if that’s GFM so be it

What’s the big deal? How’s is this any greater a accomplishment when a Ghostball user does the same thing?

You don’t think a Ghostball user never feels good, feels great when making shot after shot?

There have been shots I made where my opponent was dump founded. I’m real good at banks and it blows away people the banks I make, or the combos, or just barely missing a ball when sending the OB to a pocket and plenty more.

Yet, I feel no need to come on here to brag, to make a big deal out of nothing special.

Why, cause it ain’t the method I use, it is how I use my method.

Same with all players, it is all how well they use whatever sighting method chosen.

Geez........
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What’s the big deal? How’s is this any greater a accomplishment when a Ghostball user does the same thing?

You don’t think a Ghostball user never feels good, feels great when making shot after shot?

There have been shots I made where my opponent was dump founded. I’m real good at banks and it blows away people the banks I make, or the combos, or just barely missing a ball when sending the OB to a pocket and plenty more.

Yet, I feel no need to come on here to brag, to make a big deal out of nothing special.

Why, cause it ain’t the method I use, it is how I use my method.

Same with all players, it is all how well they use whatever sighting method chosen.

Geez........

You've got the 7 for life.
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BTW, Bieber, didn't you have a run of 70+ some years ago? Am I misremembering? You did post some footage on an 8 footer, didn't you? Seem to remember a Nice run, but could have you mixed up With someone else. Anyway, kudos on the run.

I wish I ran a 70.

I love 14.1, but I am so bad at it lol

But I could still spot Duckie 90 going to 100
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What’s the big deal? How’s is this any greater a accomplishment when a Ghostball user does the same thing?

You don’t think a Ghostball user never feels good, feels great when making shot after shot?

There have been shots I made where my opponent was dump founded. I’m real good at banks and it blows away people the banks I make, or the combos, or just barely missing a ball when sending the OB to a pocket and plenty more.

Yet, I feel no need to come on here to brag, to make a big deal out of nothing special.

Why, cause it ain’t the method I use, it is how I use my method.

Same with all players, it is all how well they use whatever sighting method chosen.

Geez........


Also for the record. I wasn't bragging. Running 20 something balls isn't worthy of a brag.

I was simply pointing out the fact that marketing claims aside, there are some positives in using CTE.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm going to go against my better judgement and post once again my experience With CTE, but maybe I'll add something that I haven't really talked about before.

I tried mechanical pivoting for about 1 month of solid 6-8 hour days, on a snooker table. Because if I can't get it to work there, then it's of no interest to me (that was my rationale). I'd make some very Nice shots super cleanly into the Pocket, which was encouraging. Then I'd run into shots that, no matter what I tried, I could not make without the cheating With English, slow stunning or other such tricks. I realized that I was going nowhere fast, so I tried more Pro 1 style play.

Shooting fast and loose and on Instinct, I did make the system work to a decent standard. Once I tried slowing Down and being super accurate, I'd run into all the same problems from before. Was what I was doing "proper" CTE? I have no idea. I don't really think I'm talented enough to shoot pool, looking at the cueball last. It's so hard to keep the cue aligned properly that way and I feel some Control over the shot may be lost. That's just an opinion. To be honest, when I was shooting fast, I'm not even sure where I actually had my eyes last, I'd sweep to center and then shoot, but did I move my eyes to the Object ball at the last moment? Can't really tell. I have a feeling I'd not pass the curtain test especially not With a curtain between my cueball and the Object ball after going to center.

I'd say that I COULD probably get this style of play to work, and I don't think I've ever said that the Method doesn't work at all. That being said, I have my doubts regarding going strictly by the book and making the system work that way, but if you can do it, I Guess nothing would be better. Anyway, I'm sort of glad I tried it. After all that hype, I would have regretted having never given it a go.

BTW, Bieber, didn't you have a run of 70+ some years ago? Am I misremembering? You did post some footage on an 8 footer, didn't you? Seem to remember a Nice run, but could have you mixed up With someone else. Anyway, kudos on the run.

I had the thought (as I'm sure others have had as well) that the more strictly you follow the CTE instructions the worse you will do with it. Your experience seems to support that idea.

CTE could be a good PSR for some people. I say Bieber knows what he's getting into as he's done it for a year. He seems to have a good handle on the warts and all yet still finds positive things that help his game. Good for him!
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
WOW. Has hell froze over. Some folks that are in the non CTE camp have a few nice things to say about CTE? Never would have thought it.

So, for the record, I don't use CTE. For the record, I trained for 2 days with Stan at his home with CTE.

But, I may not use CTE, per se, but I use some of it. And incorporated some of it into my PSR and added fractional aiming, and kind of use a hybrid of it both now, including a little ghost ball on those long thin cuts.

When I used CTE during the 2 days with Stan, it worked great, but just tough to remember. So, when I got home and went back to my practicing only once or twice a week, it was not registering. My fault for not increasing the repetition to get my muscle memory down pat.

But, still seemed like a lot of work and memorization. For me, it was not as "fun" to play... felt like work. For others, it is work and they need to be better to pay the rent or win the local tourney.

I'm not a pivot guy, and I've never used BHE on a shot in my life. I know what it is, I know how to use it, I just don't like it.

One day I'll describe my system and how it works. But, I'll grow a thicker skin first and then give it a shot to try and explain it. lol
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
WOW. Has hell froze over. Some folks that are in the non CTE camp have a few nice things to say about CTE? Never would have thought it.

So, for the record, I don't use CTE. For the record, I trained for 2 days with Stan at his home with CTE.

But, I may not use CTE, per se, but I use some of it. And incorporated some of it into my PSR and added fractional aiming, and kind of use a hybrid of it both now, including a little ghost ball on those long thin cuts.

When I used CTE during the 2 days with Stan, it worked great, but just tough to remember. So, when I got home and went back to my practicing only once or twice a week, it was not registering. My fault for not increasing the repetition to get my muscle memory down pat.

But, still seemed like a lot of work and memorization. For me, it was not as "fun" to play... felt like work. For others, it is work and they need to be better to pay the rent or win the local tourney.

I'm not a pivot guy, and I've never used BHE on a shot in my life. I know what it is, I know how to use it, I just don't like it.

One day I'll describe my system and how it works. But, I'll grow a thicker skin first and then give it a shot to try and explain it. lol

Great post. To me, this is how aiming should be, take a mix of learned techniques and principles and turn it into something usable for yourself.
 
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KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Great post. To me, this is how aiming should be, take a mix of learned techniques and principles and turn it into something usable for yourself.

thanks Sir.

Funny, as I teach my son (he's 20 but had not much interest in pool but now plays it in college) So, now we play quite a bit when he's home. So, he finally came around :) lol

But, I'll tell him he's hitting a shot to thin when he's shooting. I'll tell him it's a half ball hit just because I've shot that same shot a lot of times and you just know. And I know because of putting my body and mind through it, over and over, the same way. So, he's starting to see it. But it will take time.

So, he's learning my way. And when he does it, he does well, when he doesn't he misses. I ask what happened and he says I "thought" I had the right angle on it. But, he was just guessing as I can tell he never really looked at it, and never moved "into" the shot and just got down and fired at it.

Which, is typical of newer players, taking easy shots for granted. We just joined an ACS league last week. First league for him ever. He lost his first 5 games but won his last game of the night. The other team was very good. Luckily, they are the best team, and it gets easier from there :)
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Great post. To me, this is how aiming should be, take a mix of learned techniques and principles and turn it into something usable for yourself.
Makes sense. In fact, I think it's how aiming is mostly done, even by those who think they follow a system strictly - I'm sure they interpret and embellish it their own way, probably including bits and pieces of other systems/methods, maybe without being aware of it.

I bet there's a lot less difference than we think in how we all aim.

pj
chgo
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Makes sense. In fact, I think it's how aiming is mostly done, even by those who think they follow a system strictly - I'm sure they interpret and embellish it their own way, probably including bits and pieces of other systems/methods, maybe without being aware of it.

I bet there's a lot less difference than we think in how we all aim.

pj
chgo

I concur. That's why I don't mind folks "marketing" any system. It's just a way to get in a good habit of doing the same thing, all the time, to demonstrate consistency.

Once you do it enough, it starts to become second nature, and even folks that started with ghost ball, probably are no longer using ghost ball as their mind is on automatic now and they just see the picture. And then they make minor adjustments while in the standing position, get down and shoot.

So, any system that helps train the brain, and give folks a good PSR can't be all bad. It's just some are more complicated than others. I like less complicated but not as basic as ghost ball :) Somewhere in between !!
 

duckie

GregH
Silver Member
Can anyone tell me what I’m thinking.......I kinda wonder since so many seem to have the power to understand what is going on in others minds.

Wonder how y’all can know what my mind is doing......yet imply that I don’t.

I’m calling Madam Cleo.........
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So, any system that helps train the brain, and give folks a good PSR can't be all bad. It's just some are more complicated than others. I like less complicated but not as basic as ghost ball :) Somewhere in between !!

Operative word there is "good." A PSR that sets you up for failure would not be a good thing to learn.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Can anyone tell me what I’m thinking.......I kinda wonder since so many seem to have the power to understand what is going on in others minds.

Wonder how y’all can know what my mind is doing......yet imply that I don’t.

I’m calling Madam Cleo.........

There's a difference between knowing what someone is thinking, which is pure assumption, and knowing how the brain functions in regards to memory and subconscience action, which is not assumption.

In other words....no one can actually read anyone's mind, but understanding how the mind works is a whole different ball game.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
I think a pivoting system results in bad PSR.
I think when you get down, you should be in your natural stroking line.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think a pivoting system results in bad PSR.
I think when you get down, you should be in your natural stroking line.

I agree 100%. But plenty of great players have poor/unorthodox stroke and/or stance fundamentals, and they make it work regardless. So it's not surprising that pivot users can make offset alignments work also.
 

sixpack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
At league right now practicing. Decided to give it a try again

Ran a 22. My high run is 36

Broke and ran my first rack of 9 ball

Feels good

I’ll use it in my match if I have to play.



*this in no way changed my opinion that the subconscious is a big reason it works. But I do believe with practice it could be a good PSR

if that’s GFM so be it

tl;dr; I used CTESP at leagues and made every ball but had trouble with position play.

I don't use CTE when I compete. I practice with it though. So inspired by your post this week at leagues I decided to use it exclusively. Again, this is the sixpack version because I don't want to claim to understand all the nuances of the official version of CTE.

I went 2-2. I think if I was using my normal aiming practices - which involve a lot of elements from different systems - I would have won all 4.

I remembered why I don't use it much when I compete. I made every shot I looked at. But because the balls go in differently my position play was off. So I kept hooking myself playing bar table 8-ball. I know I'm not expressing that very well, but it's like I'm used to cheating the pocket a little on some shots to get the position I want. Playing with the pivot I was making everything basically in the center of the pocket. So my CB was running too far or not running enough. Sometimes tangent lines weren't what I expected. Because the lines & pivot are a proxy for aiming instead of just aiming, for me, there is less of a connection between the cue, CB and OB and myself so I don't see and feel the shot as intimately as when I'm aiming and visualizing how I want the CB to behave before and after the shot.

Also, I think when you pivot it's easy to not get back exactly to center ball so you can impart a little sidespin you are not expecting. That's why it takes time and practice to master it.

To make balls with CTE is relatively easy, but the time and work to really transition to it comes from figuring out how to adjust slightly to cheat the pocket to get position and get used to how the CB will react in different scenarios and shots so that you can build up that vision and connection with the shot.

To Dan White: I never consciously adjusted or allowed for contact induced throw and shot balls at all different speeds. I can't think of a single makable shot that I missed.
 
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