How do you develop this strong of stroke

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rrick33

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You have to keep in mind that billiard balls are slightly larger and heavier so they will respond differently than a traditional cue ball.
 
S

Scott Lee

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Tom...How many billiard players do you believe possess this kind of powerful stroke?...2...5...10? Out of the millions of carom players in the world, VERY few could do these artistic shots. I'd say you'd have to learn them from someone who can do them. Pretty sure silicone is involved in at least some of them.

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3kushn said:
I realize the balls are probably doctored with silicone or some such thing but for crying out loud. There has to be more than that. Tip placement isn't all there is either. Is it??

http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v1/y2/r/5l8_EVv_jyW.swf?v=479543462087122&ev=0
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Bob Jewett

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He's using lots of grease and that makes some of the shots possible. The shot at 13:30 is more commonly done with the third ball in the lower left corner. He hits the ball hard but I don't think as hard as Sayginer or Massey.

As far as developing the stroke, Hans de Jager worked with weights, especially to develop the muscles in his upper arm.
 
3kushn

3kushn

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Bob Jewett said:
He's using lots of grease and that makes some of the shots possible. The shot at 13:30 is more commonly done with the third ball in the lower left corner. He hits the ball hard but I don't think as hard as Sayginer or Massey.

As far as developing the stroke, Hans de Jager worked with weights, especially to develop the muscles in his upper arm.
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Interesting Bob. The strength part. I'd think it would be more lower arm and wrist strength.
At any rate, if muscle is part of the answer, wouldn't this mean other fundamentals are bring broken? Like maybe grip pressure?
 
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FranCrimi

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Great video.

But the shots appeared to me to be mostly masse shots. Aren't masse shots more about technique than strength?
 
ENGLISH!

ENGLISH!

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FranCrimi said:
Great video.

But the shots appeared to me to be mostly masse shots. Aren't masse shots more about technique than strength?
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Fran,

As usual you are a voice of reason.

However I'm not sure it's all about technique so I'm going to buy a black bridge glove & a white back hand glove with matching black & white small fadora hats because I think that might be the secret.:wink:

Have a Happy new Year,
 
F

FranCrimi

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ENGLISH! said:
Fran,

As usual you are a voice of reason.

However I'm not sure it's all about technique so I'm going to buy a black bridge glove & a white back hand glove with matching black & white small fadora hats because I think that might be the secret.:wink:

Have a Happy new Year,
Click to expand...

Ha! And here I was thinking it was all about the music. I just downloaded "I Feel Pretty" to my ipod. I wonder if I can get a refund?

Happy New Year to you too, Rick.
 
B

brainbyte

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It's just artistic billiards.
Buy a heated billiard table with 300 simonis and butcher the table by practicing masses and forced english shots.
Figure you can get it down with about 1/2 dozen table reclothing jobs.

It's all in the follow through....
 
One Pocket John

One Pocket John

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Bob Jewett

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3kushn said:
Interesting Bob. The strength part. I'd think it would be more lower arm and wrist strength.
At any rate, if muscle is part of the answer, wouldn't this mean other fundamentals are bring broken? Like maybe grip pressure?
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The muscle that brings your lower arm forward is in your upper arm. I used to think it was the biceps but it turns out that it is mostly a different muscle that is more or less in parallel with the biceps. Wikipedia has lots of good anatomy info if you're interested.

Hans favors a loose wrist, IIRC, and he certainly uses a rubber wrap.

The speed of the stick is determined by how fast your muscles can contract under moderate load. More speed will nearly always give you more spin until you get near the miscue limit.
 
Bob Jewett

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brainbyte said:
... It's all in the follow through....
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For that video, I'd say about half of it was in the grease.

There are some clubs in Europe where one of the tables is reserved for nothing but Artistic practice.
 
Ghosst

Ghosst

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Bob Jewett said:
Wikipedia has lots of good anatomy info if you're interested.
Click to expand...

Arm_muscles_front_superficial.png


Coraco Branch?



.
 
Bob Jewett

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Ghosst said:
...
Coraco Branch?



.
Click to expand...
Well, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brachialis_muscle the brachialis anticus does most of the flexing of the elbow (closes the elbow, which is the action that makes the cue stick go forward, usually):

Unlike the biceps, the brachialis does not insert on the radius, and therefore cannot participate in pronation and supination of the forearm. It flexes the elbow joint. Because of its broad origin and it having only one action, it can be considered the strongest flexor of the elbow.​
Pronation and supination are the actions of rotating the forearm about it's length (palm up, palm down), which evidently is what the biceps does.
 
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Ghosst

Ghosst

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Bob Jewett said:
Pronation and supination are the actions of rotating the forearm about it's length (palm up, palm down), which evidently is what the biceps does.
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Interesting. Based on its' shape and position it looks like it is the primary motor for flexing the elbow. I wonder if a light resistance and quick motion would be the best method of improving the strength of the muscle.
 
F

FranCrimi

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I don't know anything about artistic carom shots or how much it takes but I imagine it takes a lot of repetition in an awkward pose to develop the proper technique. To me, that would seem like an invitation for some sort of tendonitis, regardless of muscle strength.
 
Bob Jewett

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FranCrimi said:
I don't know anything about artistic carom shots or how much it takes but I imagine it takes a lot of repetition in an awkward pose to develop the proper technique. To me, that would seem like an invitation for some sort of tendonitis, regardless of muscle strength.
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I've played all of shots in the (old) program and I don't recall any awkward poses except for the masse shots. There it's good for your legs to be flexible. I think there is no danger of RSI. Long hours of practice can also lead to callouses or blisters depending on how tight your bridge is and whether you use a glove but that's true for regular pool as well.
 
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