Just In from Chicago Attorneys Regarding YOUR Check

Eydie Romano said:

This is correct. If they prove fraud, it is NOT covered by bankruptcy. He would be personally responsible for the money's owed to not only the players, but the other outstanding bills he has in this business.....

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Thank you Eydie. Johnnyt

I Have My Fingers & Toes Crossed

Eydie Romano said:

This is correct. If they prove fraud, it is NOT covered by bankruptcy. He would be personally responsible for the money's owed to not only the players, but the other outstanding bills he has in this business.....

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Is there ANY scenario under which KT-IPT could owe money to the sideline 'munchers' ?
Doug
( any scenario at all.... no matter how far fetched )

Smorgass Bored said:

Is there ANY scenario under which KT-IPT could owe money to the sideline 'munchers' ?
Doug
( any scenario at all.... no matter how far fetched )

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YEP...if he promised to pay for sexual favors (esp. munching)......

Colin Colenso said:

I knew about the checks being received via my own poor connections a good 12 hours before news of it arrived on these boards.

Granted the lawyers needed to check the statement that came with the checks, but there has been discussion on the legal ramification of checks being received and cashed here for weeks, yet this is the first time we have been presented with the opinion given today.

Surely it would have been a good idea for players to know the possible ramifications before they had time to cash their checks.

I'm not just saying this to throw a cat amongst the pidgeons. Just pointing out why I think information is slow coming and in short supply.

The recent announcement is also not really advice. It doesn't advise the players which route they would be better off taking.

All information and opinions that are intended to assist is appreciated. But most of us are still in need of more detailed advice.

Colin

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My advice is barely worth the screen image you see before you, especially since I have no personal financial stake in the IPT or players. (So take it for what you paid to hear it).

It seems to me and it always has that either the IPT is going to make it or it is not. If the IPT makes it, it will be a miracle with all of the naysayers who may or may not be right. Constant verbal barrages against the IPT certainly can't help them succeed.

The real question is if the IPT fails, what can the negatively impacted get out of it? While there may be some who believe that they can squeeze blood out of a turnip, I'm not one of them, especially if you are as seasoned a turnip as Mr. Trudeau. You can hire lawyers until you are blue in the face and I wouldn't hesitate to do it if I thought it was going to get my owed money. I see a court basically saying that KT tried his best to make good on his promises but he failed and that there was no attempt on his part to defraud anyone at any point in time. The fact that the IPT has and continues to operate of the negative cash flow side further demonstrates that he did not make a profit from the business.

Do you hope the IPT is sold?
If so, to whom?
Would you buy stock in an IPO for the IPT? I would but it wouldn't be for the benefit of a solid investment but more of an empathy investment for the sport as a whole. Personally, I would prefer someone other than KT in control simply because even with a guy like KT who obviously enjoys a challenge, there will always be people, second guessing his intentions and in this sport there is already enough of that to go around. And I also woudn't invest a lot of money in an IPO for the IPT. It probably wouldn't pay off in the long run.

Television advertising dollars is the only thing that will pay the bills to keep pool players earning a decent living and only enough people willing to spend their free time watching pool on TV will attract the advertisers.

I think I will start a thread about how many of us watched the World Pool Championship.
JoeyA

If what the original poster said is true, why don't the players just sit on the checks? Checks are good for something like 6 months, and I believe everyone is supposed to be paid their 33% in under 6 months, so just put the checks under your mattress until you have all three of them and just take them all to the bank at once. Now if my times aren't correct this wouldn't work but if they are and IPT did claim bankruptcy you would still have a case because they haven't cashed the checks.

I think I will start a thread about how many of us watched the World Pool Championship.
JoeyA


I'll watch. When are they ?
Doug
( you can always count on me )

Colin Colenso said:

I knew about the checks being received via my own poor connections a good 12 hours before news of it arrived on these boards.

Granted the lawyers needed to check the statement that came with the checks, but there has been discussion on the legal ramification of checks being received and cashed here for weeks, yet this is the first time we have been presented with the opinion given today.

Surely it would have been a good idea for players to know the possible ramifications before they had time to cash their checks.

I'm not just saying this to throw a cat amongst the pidgeons. Just pointing out why I think information is slow coming and in short supply.

The recent announcement is also not really advice. It doesn't advise the players which route they would be better off taking.

All information and opinions that are intended to assist is appreciated. But most of us are still in need of more detailed advice.

Colin

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Colin,

If I was involved with an attorney and he was allowing information to be posted on a stupid message board where people may be posting directly from a psych ward (not as far fetched as you would believe. They had a pool table at Christ Hospital in Chicago where I studied) I would fire him and find someone with better ethics.

You should receive information directly from the attorney not second or third hand from some posters here. Or at least directly from a representative. How hard would it be for the firm to e-mail every participant directly?

What firm, or attorney, is representing the IPT players?

What are the elements of fraud? How do you prove the elements? You have to prove all elements.

KT is admitting he has not paid the players on time and that they deserve the money, but he is now working on a payment plan. Can fraud still be proven in this case? What would a reasonable man think a timely payment plan is? A couple months as he has outlined does not seem out of line.

I have seen cases drag on for 6 years. In fact that is common more often than not. How the hell am I supposed to remember what happened 6 years ago? That is our justice system. It amazes me that our jails are so full of people. No one ever said criminals are smart.

At some point you have to realize that peace of mind is worth a whole lot more than a few dollars.

Jake

Say WHAT ?

Eydie Romano said:

BTW< Christ Hospital is not one of our "Better" hospitals in the area.

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Oh man, I'm gonna tell Christ you said that and remind me never to stand REAL close to you either...
Doug

Isn't the IPT already "under"? "Get what can while you may and hold what can for another day." No man is guaranteed a tomorrow.

Cash the checks - form a player's union to demand payment in full and verified, escrowed tournament prize funds and play pool.

If the IPT is done for then it's done for. The players are going to spend a lot of money chasing money that is never going to be available to them - if Trudeau is truly as slippery as he is claimed to be. And his past brushes with the goverment would suggest that he is much smarter now about how he arranges his businesses.

If however, the IPT has life and Trudeau is trying to make it work then it does no good to strangle it with a lawsuit. Exact a contract and a true "personal" guarantee from Trudeau through the pressure of a player's union and move on.

No court involved.

Imagine that he simply waits 90 days after sending out the offered settlements. Over 75% of people cash the check, agreeing to the settlement. After the 90 days, he simply pays the full amount owed to the other 25%. Now NOBODY has a case against him.

75% agreed to get screwed, 25% held out and got paid, and he gets a 90% discount on 75% of the money that he owes and nobody can come back at him.

Wait and see.

PetreeCues said:

No court involved.

Imagine that he simply waits 90 days after sending out the offered settlements. Over 75% of people cash the check, agreeing to the settlement. After the 90 days, he simply pays the full amount owed to the other 25%. Now NOBODY has a case against him.

75% agreed to get screwed, 25% held out and got paid, and he gets a 90% discount on 75% of the money that he owes and nobody can come back at him.

Wait and see.

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Now i'm getting dizzy and a headache....lolol..............mike

Eydie Romano said:

So, what happens 6 months from now, if the IPT goes under and we get all the whinners who say, "Gee, In wish someone would have told us before this happened!?"

BTW< Christ Hospital is not one of our "Better" hospitals in the area.

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Christ hospital is on the south side. 95th street. A class 1 trauma center. Haven't been in the area since 1994 but it was the best at the time.

Here in Florida we have the Veteran's treatment center and Shands hospital. They are heads and shoulders above any hospital in the Chicago area. The vets down here really have it nice.

Hospitals in Ocala and Leesburg are rated in the top 100. Of course they have all these old people here to practice on.

Jake

PetreeCues said:

No court involved.

Imagine that he simply waits 90 days after sending out the offered settlements. Over 75% of people cash the check, agreeing to the settlement. After the 90 days, he simply pays the full amount owed to the other 25%. Now NOBODY has a case against him.

75% agreed to get screwed, 25% held out and got paid, and he gets a 90% discount on 75% of the money that he owes and nobody can come back at him.

Wait and see.

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Sure, but it could get worse. If people wait and sign with an attorney then the attorney will get 1/3 of whatever they recover for the players. The checks will go right to the attorneys. If the attorneys work a deal with KT for him to pay out 1 million of the 3 million (actually the deal that KT has offered the players) then the attorneys will get 1/3 of that.

For all I know the only reason KT sent out these checks is because of the attorneys and perhaps the attorneys have a right to 1/3 already.

Surely you all didn't believe that bit about the attorneys working for free now, did you? I mean free, free? Just like you really didn't believe that KT would pay each of you $100,000 out of his pocket just for the pleasure of hanging with him now did you?

If so, then I am sure Doug has some nice swamp land behind his house that he will sell you. And he can make you a nice deal on some popcorn.

Then there is the "finder's fee" that may, or may not, be involved in this.
Attorneys were always good in giving me a "finder's fee" when I was up in Chicago. How do you think I was able to retire comfortably at age 54. That "fee" comes out of the settlement too.

Hey, what the heck. Everybody has to get a piece of the pie.


Jake

Eydie Romano said:

Someone may through you a kernel if your lucky!

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Hey Smorg they want to make you a Kernel.

Eydie Romano said:

This is correct. If they prove fraud, it is NOT covered by bankruptcy. He would be personally responsible for the money's owed to not only the players, but the other outstanding bills he has in this business.....

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To prove fraud, isn't it necessary to prove intent? So if Trudeau just doesn't have the money, how was a fraud committed? There seem to be way too many armchair attorneys. I think Trudeau crawled out from under a rock, but I also think he is very cunning.

That Little White Goatee Looks DIGNIFIED

ironman said:

Hey Smorg they want to make you a Kernel.

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Yippee.... KFC ?
Doug

He's One of THEM...

jjinfla said:

Christ hospital is on the south side. 95th street. A class 1 trauma center. Haven't been in the area since 1994 but it was the best at the time.

Here in Florida we have the Veteran's treatment center and Shands hospital. They are heads and shoulders above any hospital in the Chicago area. The vets down here really have it nice.

Hospitals in Ocala and Leesburg are rated in the top 100. Of course they have all these old people here to practice on.

Jake

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Wait a minute. Aren't all the hospitals, regardless of location, in on the conspiracy with the big drug companies to suppress natural cures and keep people sick? So I wouldn't trust any of them. Or anyone who trained or worked there...

Johnnyt said:

So if fraud is proven he can be made to pay with his own money or things of value? Johnnyt

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Nope, If the IPT is incorporated, then you can not go after him personally, only the corporation. Kinda like the Ken Lay thing. He was liable as an offficer of the company(criminal), but his personal fortune was untouchable(civil). Which is why he died a VERY rich man, and his estate could not be sued. Waiting to cash the checks could be a dangerous game. As most US checks are only valid for 60 days. So you would be taking a REAL chance in holding onto them. SInce you still would have to have a VERY expensive court case and PROVE fraud. Best case scenerio...You win the case and the IPT has the money to pay you. If they don't have the money, then the judge would award you a percentage of the assets. If the assets equal say $100,000 and the judge awards you 2% (remember there are 200 players), you get a whooping $2000, before legal fees. Worst case scenerio, you lose the case and your check is now worthless. KT would not be obligated to re-issue you a check (since it was your decision NOT to cash it).