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Kid Dynomite
Dennis (Michael) Wilson
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07-28-2014, 04:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BJTyler View Post
Your original statement

Yes this is America! But, come on people! Be uniform in your position on issues. Ok as long as it ain't happening to an AMERICAN!!!





However, I find your stance of positing your integrity while questioning that of others to be extremely arrogant and distasteful.
This is not about "ME" !!!

I mentioned this issue or ANALOGY to promote thought and let members ponder the issue it created and ask the valid question of themselves would they feel the same way if it was

"an ASIA tournament treating Shane in this manner?"

Would the tournament have issued Shane the bye if him and KO were in opposing positions or would he have to play to get his his money???

These are all thought PROVOKING statements, intended for members to ponder and reflect on. I mentioned my thoughts while asking the question and not in condemnation of anyone who may flip flop on the issue!!! I am not sitting in judgement of anyone despite the nasty comment.

I am sorry that we do not live in a utopia and I am not that naive to believe people on this forum are not biased in some way! I hope they are all capable of reaching a neutral and unbiased opinion on the scenario. Operative word hoping!!!

KD


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A.K.A. = Dennis (Michael) Wilson Jr.

Last edited by Kid Dynomite; 07-28-2014 at 04:24 PM.
  
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07-28-2014, 04:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrickyb View Post
WHERE DO YOU KEEP QUOTING THEY PAID AN ENTRY?


They did not pay an entry fee.

And it was a standard to fill the bracket when going from the Round Robin Round to the Knock-out Round.

IF the change was made after the Knock Out round had played OR started a match that would be one thing BUT this was before the Knock Out round started so STANDARD PROTOCOL!

Ralf had been trying to get the ticket changed but it was too expensive, not just a few dollars but in the Thousands.

NOW Get on with Pool - I'm sure Mark will address when they get some rest and the office put back together. Mark has NEVER ducked - He is Straight UP and Head ON!
Hate to burst your bubble but there was an entry fee, it wasn't cheap either. 1k per event.

Typical round robin knock out stage implies a stage in which you play for a qualifying spot of a separate paying tournament bracket. In this case, the knock out stage was part of the same tournament, evident by the place and prize money received by the round robin finishers.

So how does someone who already finished in a place where prize money is assigned, get resurrected to play for more money. Shane was loose and firing in the semis, hard not to when you are on a free-roll.
  
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  (#33)
one stroke
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07-28-2014, 04:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrickyb View Post
WHERE DO YOU KEEP QUOTING THEY PAID AN ENTRY?


They did not pay an entry fee.

And it was a standard to fill the bracket when going from the Round Robin Round to the Knock-out Round.

IF the change was made after the Knock Out round had played OR started a match that would be one thing BUT this was before the Knock Out round started so STANDARD PROTOCOL!

Ralf had been trying to get the ticket changed but it was too expensive, not just a few dollars but in the Thousands.

NOW Get on with Pool - I'm sure Mark will address when they get some rest and the office put back together. Mark has NEVER ducked - He is Straight UP and Head ON!
Ya he probably needs a lot of rest to give that 10 second explanation that should have been given at the time of the decision ,,

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invitational
Old
  (#34)
ShootingArts
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invitational - 07-28-2014, 04:36 PM

Just a quick comment. I have no clue where anyone gets the idea that invitationals don't require an entry fee. I have participated in many that did. So far I have participated in one invitational that was free.

The only thing that invitational means in today's world is that there is a limited field. Sometimes people have to be invited or qualify, sometimes they can nominate themselves until the field is filled.

Carry on with the rest of the debate, about invitationals too if you must but that issue is truly moot.

Hu
  
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  (#35)
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07-28-2014, 04:58 PM

If you add up the amounts won by each player for the 10ball event, the total is $32k, and it was advertised as $16k added.

So yeah, definitely a $1k entry fee.

Either that or they advertised wrong, and actually added more.
  
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Old
  (#36)
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07-28-2014, 08:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Dynomite View Post
If this happened in ASIA and shane was treated in this manner the OUTRAGE would be unprecedented.
...
Yes this is America! But, come on people! Be uniform in your position on issues. Ok as long as it ain't happening to an AMERICAN!!!

KD


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Dynomite View Post
This is not about "ME" !!!

I mentioned this issue or ANALOGY to promote thought and let members ponder the issue it created and ask the valid question of themselves would they feel the same way if it was

"an ASIA tournament treating Shane in this manner?"

Would the tournament have issued Shane the bye if him and KO were in opposing positions or would he have to play to get his his money???

These are all thought PROVOKING statements, intended for members to ponder and reflect on. I mentioned my thoughts while asking the question and not in condemnation of anyone who may flip flop on the issue!!! I am not sitting in judgement of anyone despite the nasty comment.

I am sorry that we do not live in a utopia and I am not that naive to believe people on this forum are not biased in some way! I hope they are all capable of reaching a neutral and unbiased opinion on the scenario. Operative word hoping!!!

KD

KD,

Thought provoking questions, challenging hypotheticals, and well informed opinions are the center of all productive discussions. However, when your opinions are accusatory and incendiary (in Red above), I think it is your responsibility to provide some evidence that supports your opinion. For example, can you point to other instances where the AZB crowd has flip-flopped and exhibited outrage in a logically inconsistent manner in support of SVB or American players? If so, I may be inclined to agree with you and more importantly it informs the debate productively.

However, in the absence of such evidence, your opinions only "fan the flames" of an unproductive argument.

I agree with you that there is surely a group of both SVB "fanboys" and "haters" on AZB that will ignore any and all evidence and simply plant their flags instinctively for their "side". However, I -like you- hope most people are reasonably principled in their opinions.

In this particular case, among reasonable people, it seems that there is an ideological divide between people who either believe:

A. that this was a multi-staged tournament that allowed a number of factors to enter into the advancement process, including win loss record, head-to-head record, rack differential, and yes, even the forfeiture of another player.

-or-

B. that regardless of whether this was a single or multi stage tournament, as soon as Ralf won his bracket, everyone else in the group was eliminated and therefore no longer eligible to return.

I think these are two reasonable views that can be adjudicated through a combination of a) what was explicity written, b) what was implied, c) what is the precedent. This is a tractable debate.

So what is my dog in this fight? Yes, I am an SVB fan, but no more so than Efren, Dennis, or probably my favorite Darren. Do I root for Americans, Sure; but when competing as individuals, I'll root for the player I like the best - nationality notwithstanding. When attending or watching the Mosconi Cup, I of course root for America, but I make sure to clap for all players.

My dog in this fight is that I want to see Pool succeed. I think events like the CSI invitational can do wonders for our sport. They have the potential to catapult this game back into the mainstream. There is no reason why the CSI invitational can't become sort of an international Mosconi Cup...on American Soil.

And when I read some of the inflammatory posts strewn across these threads, I can't help but think this will surely encourage CSI to end this event. And that would be a shame for all involved...players, customers, fans.

Having said this, it does not mean that CSI can run their event with impunity. They should strive to promote fairness in all events, increase transparency, and in general improve their product. Customer feedback is an incredibly effective tool towards that end.

So on that note, let's keep the criticism constructive, reasoned, and informed.

Last edited by BJTyler; 07-28-2014 at 08:18 PM.
  
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Old
  (#37)
Kid Dynomite
Dennis (Michael) Wilson
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07-29-2014, 03:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BJTyler View Post
KD,

Thought provoking questions, challenging hypotheticals, and well informed opinions are the center of all productive discussions. However, when your opinions are accusatory and incendiary (in Red above), I think it is your responsibility to provide some evidence that supports your opinion. For example, can you point to other instances where the AZB crowd has flip-flopped and exhibited outrage in a logically inconsistent manner in support of SVB or American players? If so, I may be inclined to agree with you and more importantly it informs the debate productively.

However, in the absence of such evidence, your opinions only "fan the flames" of an unproductive argument.

I agree with you that there is surely a group of both SVB "fanboys" and "haters" on AZB that will ignore any and all evidence and simply plant their flags instinctively for their "side". However, I -like you- hope most people are reasonably principled in their opinions.


So on that note, let's keep the criticism constructive, reasoned, and informed.
Examples of flip flopping in pool are abundant! You ask for examples members here flip flop on earl Strickland's behavior all the time and a precedent does exist!

Rodney morris went off the reservation and despite over whelming evidence of maligning Mark Griffin his fan boys flip flop and run to his side.

Dennis hatch in trouble with the law in past. But. Matchrooom flip flop and ignores that history!

I could go on and on! And quit frankly do not like being classified as fanning the flames when I clearly am not. I provided thought provoking concepts to the discussion.

It is only appropriate to transition concepts and include your OPINION on the topic when asking others to ponder the questions/scenarios raised.

In giving my position and asking others to reflect I ask them to be UNIFORM in their opinion and unbiased. Not let nationality , race &etc. Cloud how they view the scenario and taint public opinion and justice!

My comment was more of a plea to the board. Then any type of condemnation. but you know that already and like to stir the pot with this incendiary bs!

Stop wasting peoples time and add something thought provoking! If you even can? Sadly, you have not added one thought provoking concept or thing of value out of so many threads and posts.

Stimulate don't denigrate!

Kd

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A.K.A. = Dennis (Michael) Wilson Jr.

Last edited by Kid Dynomite; 07-29-2014 at 03:49 AM.
  
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  (#38)
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07-29-2014, 04:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by NlceGuy View Post
Hate to burst your bubble but there was an entry fee, it wasn't cheap either. 1k per event.

Typical round robin knock out stage implies a stage in which you play for a qualifying spot of a separate paying tournament bracket. In this case, the knock out stage was part of the same tournament, evident by the place and prize money received by the round robin finishers.

So how does someone who already finished in a place where prize money is assigned, get resurrected to play for more money. Shane was loose and firing in the semis, hard not to when you are on a free-roll.



I think this is important for people to read.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  
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Old
  (#39)
BJTyler
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07-29-2014, 07:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Dynomite View Post

Stop wasting peoples time and add something thought provoking! If you even can? Sadly, you have not added one thought provoking concept or thing of value out of so many threads and posts.

Kd

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So if somebody disagrees with your view, it's no longer thought provoking? That certainly explains the content & quality of your discourse.

If you read my posts (perhaps you'll need to do so more than once) you'll see that I - along with many other AZ members on both sides of this issue including Spartan & Itsfroze - have added very clear and consistent viewpoints to this topic that attempt to further the debate. You, on the other hand, have taken a self-righteous, arrogant stance based upon your prejudiced view of the AZB membership and an inexplicable belief that only you are capable of acting in a logically consistent manner. Please...get over yourself.

Last edited by BJTyler; 07-29-2014 at 07:14 AM.
  
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Old
  (#40)
Kid Dynomite
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07-29-2014, 07:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BJTyler View Post
So if somebody disagrees with your view, it's no longer thought provoking? That certainly explains the content & quality of your discourse.

If you read my posts (perhaps you'll need to do so more than once) you'll see that I've added a very clear and consistent viewpoint to this topic that attempts to further the debate. You, on the other hand, have taken a self-righteous, arrogant stance based upon your prejudiced view of the AZB membership and an inexplicable belief that only you are capable of acting in a logically inconsistent manner.


No, all you do is change the SUBJECT!!! This thread is not about me being "Self-righteous & Arrogant"


Now what???????

KD


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Old
  (#41)
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07-29-2014, 07:20 AM

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Originally Posted by Kid Dynomite View Post
No, all you do is change the SUBJECT!!! This thread is not about me being "Self-righteous & Arrogant"


Now what???????

KD
The purpose of this thread is to discuss a topic, hear different viewpoints, and perhaps arrive at some sort of agreement or consensus. However the pompous, self-righteous indignation exhibited in your original post only serves to retard this effort. If you can't see this, I'm not sure what else I can do.
  
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  (#42)
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07-29-2014, 07:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Dynomite View Post
No, all you do is change the SUBJECT!!! This thread is not about me being "Self-righteous & Arrogant"


Now what???????

KD
To be fair, all you have done is attack members of the forum as being biased, for no reason other than that you don't agree with them. You haven't really contributed anything constructive to the matter in hand.

Nevertheless, backlash against a pretty inconsequential non-incident has been done to death, over multiple threads. Each thread has descended into the same personal slanging as this. If you are not happy with the state of this forum, stop adding to what is rapidly turning into a mountain of 5hit
  
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  (#43)
Kid Dynomite
Dennis (Michael) Wilson
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07-29-2014, 07:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BJTyler View Post
The purpose of this thread is to discuss a topic, hear different viewpoints, and perhaps arrive at some sort of agreement or consensus. However the pompous, self-righteous indignation exhibited in your original post only serves to retard this effort. If you can't see this, I'm not sure what else I can do.
Oh, lets add pompous you forgot that one. Again, you are changing the subject and now name calling. Stay on topic if you can? Topic title = "Another CSI decision thread"

again, how am i relevant to this topic? God people reading is fundamental! LOL

KD


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  (#44)
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07-29-2014, 07:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Dynomite View Post
Oh, lets add pompous you forgot that one. Again, you are changing the subject and now name calling. Stay on topic if you can? Topic title = "Another CSI decision thread"

again, how am i relevant to this topic? God people reading is fundamental! LOL

KD
I'm not a God person- am I allowed to read this drivel?
  
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  (#45)
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07-29-2014, 07:34 AM

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Originally Posted by Kid Dynomite View Post
Oh, lets add pompous you forgot that one. Again, you are changing the subject and now name calling. Stay on topic if you can? Topic title = "Another CSI decision thread"

again, how am i relevant to this topic? God people reading is fundamental! LOL

KD
One man's name calling is another man's adjective. If you come into a thread and derail it by spewing nonsensical inflammatory accusations, you become relevant to the thread and it is completely justified and on topic to "call you out".

Since it's quite obvious that you are not interested in other viewpoints and cannot constructively add to a discussion, you are now ignored.

Last edited by BJTyler; 07-29-2014 at 07:37 AM.
  
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