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Straightpool_99
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06-01-2019, 03:53 PM

I'm happy the record was broken, it was way overdue and was a magnificent achievement.

However, people are reading way too much into this. This record in itself is not enough to declare him the greatest straightpooler ever, or whatever else the people are saying. Are you going to say the same when some nobody breaks this record in his basement? That could very well happen, you know. John isn't a nobody, he's a US Open winner, and a worthy future hall-of-famer in the light of his tournament performances, not this performance alone. High run records are, and always will be SideShows to tournament performances. That is how the world works.

This record should be celebrated, without going completely overboard. I look forward to seeing the run, as I'm excited to see a "clean" run as he himself put it. I love good pattern play.
  
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JL in ATL
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06-01-2019, 04:01 PM

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Originally Posted by ShootingArts View Post
Probably the biggest equipment differences were the balls and the temperature/humidity in the room. Paraphrasing john's own words, who saw his run, a potted plant in the corner? Eight people claim to have watched john's run which I read took four hours. Did anyone really watch the entire four hours? It doesn't matter for the record, but the humidity created by even forty people or so around a table is a lot different than no crowd. Typical fifties climate control was a lot different too. This is a record set in front of the potted plant in the corner and a video camera that didn't get bored with john's hundreds of false starts.

Today's balls play considerably better than sixties balls, I have to assume better than fifties balls too. I have played with those old balls but they weren't new then. Of course there is john's obsession with cleaning the balls constantly.

In the end these things don't really matter. Equipment changes and the records are still allowed. Pole vaulters would be nowhere near the height they are now with an old wooden pole. john has a record that very few care about. Shattering most sports records would garner world wide attention. Shattering the straight pool record gets a world wide yawn from those that noticed.

Running out a few sets in a major competition would be far more attention grabbing. One should translate to the other such as Willie's dominance in his day. It won't though. Perhaps that is one reason for the lack of attention. john wasn't a great player before the record, he won't be a great player afterwards.

Hu
I usually agree with you, but on this one we are on different pages. How many US Opens have you won? John was/is/will continue to be a great player.

Regards,

John
  
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06-01-2019, 04:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightpool_99 View Post
I'm happy the record was broken, it was way overdue and was a magnificent achievement.

However, people are reading way too much into this. This record in itself is not enough to declare him the greatest straightpooler ever, or whatever else the people are saying. Are you going to say the same when some nobody breaks this record in his basement? That could very well happen, you know. John isn't a nobody, he's a US Open winner, and a worthy future hall-of-famer in the light of his tournament performances, not this performance alone. High run records are, and always will be SideShows to tournament performances. That is how the world works.

This record should be celebrated, without going completely overboard. I look forward to seeing the run, as I'm excited to see a "clean" run as he himself put it. I love good pattern play.
The average pro cant produce a clean 14.1 run over ~100 balls.

Yep, a 600+ "clean" run is most definitely something "ANY" of the legends (dead and alive) could/can/would and WILL appreciate.

Anyone that doesn't, well, that in itself says where they are in the 14.1 pecking order.


I knew a fellow that thought he was a good boxer because he was in a position to befriend a lot of "professional boxers". It cost him azzwhippens till he realized he wasn't what he thought/wished he was.

Do you know anyone like the "wannabe" boxer in the pool world?
  
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different yardsticks - 06-01-2019, 06:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JL in ATL View Post
I usually agree with you, but on this one we are on different pages. How many US Opens have you won? John was/is/will continue to be a great player.

Regards,

John

John,

We are just using different yardsticks to measure great. Efren, Earl, Sigel, and more. "Great" in my mind requires staying power. The greatest of all sports figures might be Olympic gold medalists yet if they do little before or after they are soon forgotten. I met and talked to a medalist that went on to be a legend in track and field. I'm not a big track and field guy but that was an honor I felt at the time.

I talked to Bobby Allison a few times one on one. Over six hundred wins at all levels, that is greatness. A driver I was a crew member for had hundreds of wins, a few championships, I don't know how many track records at one time or another. Bobby and Donnie looked up to him because he was a champion when they were cutting their teeth. He never broke into the top division and nobody would call him great. Even those with a few top division wins aren't considered great. It's a tough title to earn and it has to be earned.

Very few of today's pool players will ever be considered great simply because pool isn't seen as a very significant activity. Who is the world's greatest checkers player? Nobody knows because nobody really cares. Chess gets a little respect and people are recognized as chess greats.

Hu
  
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06-01-2019, 08:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrctherake View Post
The average pro cant produce a clean 14.1 run over ~100 balls.

Yep, a 600+ "clean" run is most definitely something "ANY" of the legends (dead and alive) could/can/would and WILL appreciate.

Anyone that doesn't, well, that in itself says where they are in the 14.1 pecking order.
I would have to disagree , I think the average pro runs a 100 in a minimal amount of time of practice a top pro would do it pretty quick Filler has a 285 ball run on you tube , several top have over 200 some 300 and 2 over 400 who are still playing


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06-01-2019, 09:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrctherake View Post
The average pro cant produce a clean 14.1 run over ~100 balls.

Yep, a 600+ "clean" run is most definitely something "ANY" of the legends (dead and alive) could/can/would and WILL appreciate.

Anyone that doesn't, well, that in itself says where they are in the 14.1 pecking order.
The use of the term "clean" is confusing to me. What does it mean? The shooter never missed shape? There were no stressful racks? No difficult shots were made? No clusters ever remained in the late stages of any rack? There were no near scratches? If these are the requirements, then this will likely have been the first "clean" run of over 150 ever. Mike Sigel's 150 ad out run in the 1992 US Open vs Zuglan may have met these requirements, and Mosconi, who watched it live, called it a technically perfect run. Oh yeah, I was there, too, on that memorable night at the Roosevelt Hotel in New York City.

I'm with you on how the old masters would feel about the run. Straight pool was their game, and they'd be delighted to see it get a long-awaited moment in the spotlight and to see the level of John's commitment to keeping their game alive. I think they'd line up to shake his hand and say "well done."

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06-02-2019, 07:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjm View Post
The use of the term "clean" is confusing to me. What does it mean? The shooter never missed shape? There were no stressful racks? No difficult shots were made? No clusters ever remained in the late stages of any rack? There were no near scratches? If these are the requirements, then this will likely have been the first "clean" run of over 150 ever. Mike Sigel's 150 ad out run in the 1992 US Open vs Zuglan may have met these requirements, and Mosconi, who watched it live, called it a technically perfect run. Oh yeah, I was there, too, on that memorable night at the Roosevelt Hotel in New York City.

I'm with you on how the old masters would feel about the run. Straight pool was their game, and they'd be delighted to see it get a long-awaited moment in the spotlight and to see the level of John's commitment to keeping their game alive. I think they'd line up to shake his hand and say "well done."

Stu, when I use the words "clean run" it means it was a run without circus shots to keep it going.

By extension also implies that the player kept the balls under control without lucky rolls to maintain position.

Lou Figueroa
  
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06-02-2019, 05:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjm View Post
The use of the term "clean" is confusing to me. What does it mean? The shooter never missed shape? There were no stressful racks? No difficult shots were made? No clusters ever remained in the late stages of any rack? There were no near scratches? If these are the requirements, then this will likely have been the first "clean" run of over 150 ever. Mike Sigel's 150 ad out run in the 1992 US Open vs Zuglan may have met these requirements, and Mosconi, who watched it live, called it a technically perfect run. Oh yeah, I was there, too, on that memorable night at the Roosevelt Hotel in New York City.

I'm with you on how the old masters would feel about the run. Straight pool was their game, and they'd be delighted to see it get a long-awaited moment in the spotlight and to see the level of John's commitment to keeping their game alive. I think they'd line up to shake his hand and say "well done."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was there too in 1992 and like you, had the good fortune to also watch Sigel's 150 and out, in-person.

I also saw that tournament's somewhat lackluster men's final during which Sigel defeated Dallas West after many innings (I'd imagine that you were there for the final also). While Mosconi was definitely present at the final (as an invited guest) and was acknowledged by the announcer, the audience, and respectfully by Sigel, but I've never before heard any indication that he was in the audience for Sigel's virtually flawless 150 and out, and that he made a public comment about the run. That's news to me.

Arnaldo


“When the action starts, it may not go the way you planned, and you’re down to your reflexes. That’s where your roadwork shows . . . If you cheated on that in the dark of the morning, well, you’re gonna get found out now, under the bright lights.” – Joe “Smokin’ Joe” Frazier
  
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jarred - 06-03-2019, 08:06 AM

Well, my critics are silenced, or they would be if they were honest. john did indeed take something that chilled him right on out the last few days of his attempt and when he started getting big runs. He connects the two, if not the actual effect. I don't know if he took anything else but 5000% to 10,000% of the recommended daily allowance of B12 right before the attempts would be considered a PED. Funny thing, while he noticed better performance he may have been clueless as to why.

These drinks always give you a slug of caffeine and other ingredients to give you a quick burst of "feel good" and energy. What happens after that? Massive doses of B12 chill you right on out after a few hours. A complicated process to get the B12 to the small intestine without being digested then it is absorbed through the walls of the small intestine. Takes awhile. Drinking five hour energy leaves you a bit wired and would add to the jitters as big numbers were piling up. While B12 gives you energy long term over weeks, the short term effect lasting several days is to mellow you right on out.

john himself admits the stuff might have helped him over the line. It probably did but not for the reasons he thought! He might have been able to do it on his own but we will never know. By his own admission he was taking massive doses of B12 every day. He did indeed tranquilize himself, whether he knew it or not.

My wife had to take the shots or poppers, snorting B12 is another way to bypass the digestive system. She would be dragging around anyway, after B12 she would basically snooze away a day or two. Large doses of B12 just chills out a healthy person.

Hu

Speculations that he took at least one thing that functioned as a mild tranquilizer confirmed by none other than john himself. I started listening at about 7:30 into the video for context.
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06-03-2019, 01:00 PM

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Originally Posted by ShootingArts View Post
Well, my critics are silenced, or they would be if they were honest. john did indeed take something that chilled him right on out the last few days of his attempt and when he started getting big runs. He connects the two, if not the actual effect. I don't know if he took anything else but 5000% to 10,000% of the recommended daily allowance of B12 right before the attempts would be considered a PED. Funny thing, while he noticed better performance he may have been clueless as to why.

These drinks always give you a slug of caffeine and other ingredients to give you a quick burst of "feel good" and energy. What happens after that? Massive doses of B12 chill you right on out after a few hours. A complicated process to get the B12 to the small intestine without being digested then it is absorbed through the walls of the small intestine. Takes awhile. Drinking five hour energy leaves you a bit wired and would add to the jitters as big numbers were piling up. While B12 gives you energy long term over weeks, the short term effect lasting several days is to mellow you right on out.

john himself admits the stuff might have helped him over the line. It probably did but not for the reasons he thought! He might have been able to do it on his own but we will never know. By his own admission he was taking massive doses of B12 every day. He did indeed tranquilize himself, whether he knew it or not.

My wife had to take the shots or poppers, snorting B12 is another way to bypass the digestive system. She would be dragging around anyway, after B12 she would basically snooze away a day or two. Large doses of B12 just chills out a healthy person.

Hu

Speculations that he took at least one thing that functioned as a mild tranquilizer confirmed by none other than john himself. I started listening at about 7:30 into the video for context.
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Your talk is hot, why don't you go and beat his record, Hu?
Come on! Show the world how much of a better shotmaker you are than a smack talker!

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old hat - 06-05-2019, 05:10 PM

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Originally Posted by SlickRick_PCS View Post
Your talk is hot, why don't you go and beat his record, Hu?
Come on! Show the world how much of a better shotmaker you are than a smack talker!


I have already set four records coming behind a world champion and grandmasters. Bettered a world record too. It's kinda old hat for me.

Oh yeah, I didn't need any crutches to do any of it!

Hu
  
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06-06-2019, 09:44 AM

Aren't most official records for sport only recognized during competition?
  
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06-06-2019, 10:05 AM

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Originally Posted by Slasher View Post
Aren't most official records for sport only recognized during competition?
I think so but I believe pool to be exempt from that. It’s a game where you’re always at the table alone, whether you have an opponent or not. And particularly in straight pool where if John had had an open shot...theoretically he could have run all those balls out and the presence of an opponent would’ve made no difference
  
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06-06-2019, 10:10 AM

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Originally Posted by JazzyJeff87 View Post
I think so but I believe pool to be exempt from that. It’s a game where you’re always at the table alone, whether you have an opponent or not. And particularly in straight pool where if John had had an open shot...theoretically he could have run all those balls out and the presence of an opponent would’ve made no difference
Technically wouldn't his first shot not be a legal shot?
  
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06-06-2019, 10:15 AM

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Originally Posted by Slasher View Post
Technically wouldn't his first shot not be a legal shot?
No because he just starts the run with a legal break shot, so it’s as if his opponent missed maybe with a couple balls left, JS cleaned them up and got good on the break ball...and then ran the f out for hours
  
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