Considering Mosconi and Fats....

9 Ball Fan

Darth Maximus
Silver Member
Mosconi seems to have embodied one image and approach to the game, while Fats was the polar opposite. Which do you think had more of an impact, on the current state of the game?
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mosconi seems to have embodied one image and approach to the game, while Fats was the polar opposite. Which do you think had more of an impact, on the current state of the game?

FWIW, neither comes to mind.

Most of today's recreational players probably couldn't tell you one fact about either of them. Except for maybe hearing their names somewhere.

The Black Widow probably would be better known to them.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mosconi seems to have embodied one image and approach to the game, while Fats was the polar opposite. Which do you think had more of an impact, on the current state of the game?
Neither one. Few, if any, young/current players know or give a rats' ass about players that far back. Color of Money MAYBE but not these two.
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
Neither one. Few, if any, young/current players know or give a rats' ass about players that far back. Color of Money MAYBE but not these two.

And it's sad, really... SO MANY great stories comprising the history of this gorgeous game. That really define it in countless ways. And all stories of things that will never see the light of day except AS stories. It's history. And it deserves a prominent place at the table.

Too true and really sad, Gar. :frown:
 
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sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
I think Mosconi is a Babe Ruth kind of figure. Babe brought a level of sustained dominance to baseball that most would have believed impossible. In the 1920's, year after year, he won the home run crown and his teams usually won the World Series. It seems unlikely that baseball will ever again see anyone dominate to the same extent. Mosconi's sustained dominance over his peers in the 1940's and 1950's is similarly otherwordly, and few of us anticipate seeing anyone outclassing opponents with such regularity anytime soon.

Contrastingly, Minnesota Fats, hustler extraordinaire, was an entertainer, and it was not through his great excellence as a player that he is most remembered but for his trash talking and story telling and genuine humor. His name was better known that Mosconi's, something Willie was none too pleased about.

The legacy of each is still felt. It's worth noting that some of their best work may have been done together. Charlie Ursitti, Mosconi's manager, was the guy who conceived the Fats/Mosconi Challenge and brought the idea to ABC Sports. This series of matches in the mid-1970's was aired on "ABC Wide World of Sports" and it brought a lot of positive attention to pool.

To say Fats and Mosconi belong on the Mount Rushmore of pool isn't giving them enough credit. They belong on pool's Mount Olympus!
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
No link

For better or worse there is no real link between Willie or Fats and today's game. The game is a lot more like Mosconi's style, no real flash, go in and take care of business. Fat's could light up a room now but he would starve to death gambling today. When he tried to get somebody to play him the game he wanted they would all be sitting on their hands.

Both great in their own right but forgotten. Fats could play quite a bit better than most realized because he wasn't going to play better than just good enough. Willie showed his stuff in formal competition. Willie also inspired many people's games including mine. While some tried to match Fats' style in the pool room, I can't remember anyone saying they tried to copy his game.

Other than the Color of Money upspurt, I think pool largely died with the coming of widespread television. Some people with nothing to do after work rambled over to the pool hall before widespread TV. After the mid-sixties they veged out in front of the TV. I think the coming of TV and the lack of interest in pool for years is what broke the link between Willie, Fats, and today's pool.

Hu
 

camaro69926

Registered
My son loves watching videos of Minnesota fats. He turns on videos of old matches before bed to help put him to sleep.
 

SlickRick_PCS

Pool, Snooker, Carom
Silver Member
Mosconi seems to have embodied one image and approach to the game, while Fats was the polar opposite. Which do you think had more of an impact, on the current state of the game?

Ralph Greenleaf, Willie Hoppe, Walter Lindrum, Maurice Vigneaux, Alex Higgins, Steve Davis, Joe Davis, Raymond Ceulemans, Torbjorn Blomdahl, Michael Phelan, Irving Crane, Jimmy Caras, Mosconi, Joe Balsis, Arther Cranfield, Capt. Francois Mingaud, Johnny Irish, the English guy who first put chalk on the tip, and Alfredo de Oro... among many others
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SlickRick...Actually, that was Mingaud as well. He invented the leather tip, while in jail in France, and was the first person to put chalk (calcium carbonate) on it, to make things like masse' happen. Many thought that he was some kind of black magic person for a while. :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

the English guy who first put chalk on the tip
 

SlickRick_PCS

Pool, Snooker, Carom
Silver Member
SlickRick...Actually, that was Mingaud as well. He invented the leather tip, while in jail in France, and was the first person to put chalk (calcium carbonate) on it, to make things like masse' happen. Many thought that he was some kind of black magic person for a while. :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

If I remembered correctly, it was Jack Carr who put chalk on the tip. Mingaud made the leather in the tip.
 

LeftyIke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mingaud also experimented and became accomplished in Masse’, Side-Spin, Draw-shots, and other Shots using Spin, that amazed nearly everyone, and seemed Magical or possessed by a Devil!
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Neither one. Few, if any, young/current players know or give a rats' ass about players that far back. Color of Money MAYBE but not these two.
Definitely correct!
Let those dinosaurs stay buried and back off on trying to 'dig them up'. There seems to be a twisted sentimental reverence for these old players which they simply do not deserve.
Time moves on and few people care who robbed so-and-so at Bensingers or who shot down "high rolling Louie" at the big tournament in 1965.
 

SlickRick_PCS

Pool, Snooker, Carom
Silver Member
Definitely correct!
Let those dinosaurs stay buried and back off on trying to 'dig them up'. There seems to be a twisted sentimental reverence for these old players which they simply do not deserve.
Time moves on and few people care who robbed so-and-so at Bensingers or who shot down "high rolling Louie" at the big tournament in 1965.

Yet it's sad people like you who craps on the players of the past and the rich history of billiards...
 

9 Ball Fan

Darth Maximus
Silver Member
Definitely correct!
Let those dinosaurs stay buried and back off on trying to 'dig them up'. There seems to be a twisted sentimental reverence for these old players which they simply do not deserve.
Time moves on and few people care who robbed so-and-so at Bensingers or who shot down "high rolling Louie" at the big tournament in 1965.


Oh come on..... Let's talk about the Johnston City Shootout!!!

Wasn't Luther Lassiter walking tall back then?
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Rudolph Wanderone....by far. He had his own tv shows/retail stores, and the money he made away from the game was allot, no egocentric behavior EVER. Willie did not like that.
 

JazzyJeff87

AzB Plutonium Member
Silver Member
Yet it's sad people like you who craps on the players of the past and the rich history of billiards...

I almost thought his post was a joke lol, but maybe he’s serious.

There was a golden age of pool and I’m definitely interested. I love nostalgia you just have to be realistic as well. I could read old war stories all day to get myself pumped up for serious play.

There’s nothing wrong with playing in a league but don’t fool yourself into thinking that’s all Pool is about.
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
I almost thought his post was a joke lol, but maybe he’s serious.

There was a golden age of pool and I’m definitely interested. I love nostalgia you just have to be realistic as well. I could read old war stories all day to get myself pumped up for serious play.

There’s nothing wrong with playing in a league but don’t fool yourself into thinking that’s all Pool is about.

The rumor was, that during the depression, Brunswick paid Willie $25,000 a year salary, plus expenses. During those years, he was the highest paid athlete on the planet. When Otto played pro football in the years before the NFL, his starting salary was 12K-14K.
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yet it's sad people like you who craps on the players of the past and the rich history of billiards...
"rich history".......????????? :rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1:
Maybe we can all sit around the living room and listen to Art Linkletter on the radio or telephone grandma "station to station long distance" to save on rates while we bask in some of that rich history of billiards.
In the meantime, the youth of the world (especially those females from Asian countries) are shooting out the lights at the games of 9-Ball and 10-Ball better than all those old dinosaurs ever thought about doing)
"rich history" indeed......:rotflmao1:
 
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