Is throw more of a factor at close range?

Shermanscs

Steve sherman
Silver Member
I was practicing the half ball hit cut shot because I think that is a really good anchoring point for aiming. I noticed that when the cueball was close to the object ball (say 12 inches), a half ball hit seemed too full to make the pocket. I was sure the angle was 30 degrees because I measured it with a protractor. I felt I was aligned properly & applied no english and a good stroke. Further back, the shot seemed to go in “truer”.

The only thing I could think of was that at the close range, throw might be more of a factor than at the longer distance, requiring a slight adjustment to hit the ball a bit thinner than half ball it. Looked like about 1/2 tip thinner.

I am interested to know if my theory on throw being more of a factor at close range is valid, and if I should adjust my aim slightly to accommodate for that. For now, I am working on shooting without applying side spin, so I don’t want to use english at the moment as a means to offset throw.

Looking very forward to your responses.

Thanks!!
Steve Sherman
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
At a half ball hit throw is greater with less rotation on the CB (sidespin or draw/follow). At closer distance with a center ball hit the CB tends to reach the OB with less/no forward roll (I assume you’re not adding side spin).

pj
chgo
 

goettlicher

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was practicing the half ball hit cut shot because I think that is a really good anchoring point for aiming. I noticed that when the cueball was close to the object ball (say 12 inches), a half ball hit seemed too full to make the pocket. I was sure the angle was 30 degrees because I measured it with a protractor. I felt I was aligned properly & applied no english and a good stroke. Further back, the shot seemed to go in “truer”.

The only thing I could think of was that at the close range, throw might be more of a factor than at the longer distance, requiring a slight adjustment to hit the ball a bit thinner than half ball it. Looked like about 1/2 tip thinner.

I am interested to know if my theory on throw being more of a factor at close range is valid, and if I should adjust my aim slightly to accommodate for that. For now, I am working on shooting without applying side spin, so I don’t want to use english at the moment as a means to offset throw.

Looking very forward to your responses.

Thanks!!
Steve Sherman



SIT or CIT?

randyg
 

Shermanscs

Steve sherman
Silver Member
Randy,
Interested in your take, but I would say CIT because I am not putting any side spin on the ball.

Does that sound right?
- Steve
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Randy,
Interested in your take, but I would say CIT because I am not putting any side spin on the ball.

Does that sound right?
- Steve
Yes, no side spin = no spin-induced throw (SIT), so all contact-induced throw (CIT).

As I said above, contact-induced throw is maximized with no side spin or forward or reverse rotation (follow or draw) on the CB. Shooting from close to the OB reduces/eliminates forward rotation (unless you're hitting high on the CB).

pj
chgo
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I was practicing the half ball hit cut shot because I think that is a really good anchoring point for aiming. I noticed that when the cueball was close to the object ball (say 12 inches), a half ball hit seemed too full to make the pocket. I was sure the angle was 30 degrees because I measured it with a protractor. I felt I was aligned properly & applied no english and a good stroke. Further back, the shot seemed to go in “truer”.

The only thing I could think of was that at the close range, throw might be more of a factor than at the longer distance, requiring a slight adjustment to hit the ball a bit thinner than half ball it. Looked like about 1/2 tip thinner.

I am interested to know if my theory on throw being more of a factor at close range is valid, and if I should adjust my aim slightly to accommodate for that. For now, I am working on shooting without applying side spin, so I don’t want to use english at the moment as a means to offset throw.

Looking very forward to your responses.

Thanks!!
Steve Sherman
The cut angle for a half-ball hit is almost never 30 degrees. If the cue ball has no side spin, the actual cut will be somewhere between about 29 degrees and 25 degrees.

With no side spin, the cut angle changes according to whether you have follow or stun or draw on the cue ball. Follow and draw give a larger cut angle than stun.

I suspect what is happening in your practice is that for shorter shots (cue ball closer to OB), you are getting stun while if the cue ball is back farther you have some follow on the cue ball when it gets to the object ball.

You need to adjust your aim when the cue ball is closer if you use stun. If you play with follow or draw the aim should be close to the same as a rolling cue ball that started back farther.
 

anbukev

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This might be useful for you:
 

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Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Steve...Did you query your Master Instructor about this? If so, what did he say? BTW, CIT (collision induced throw, or "cling") happens all the time. The most cling occurs at a half ball hit, or less, and shooting slowly. Most players adjust for cling with some outside spin on the CB, regardless of the distance between CB & OB.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I was practicing the half ball hit cut shot because I think that is a really good anchoring point for aiming. I noticed that when the cueball was close to the object ball (say 12 inches), a half ball hit seemed too full to make the pocket. I was sure the angle was 30 degrees because I measured it with a protractor. I felt I was aligned properly & applied no english and a good stroke. Further back, the shot seemed to go in “truer”.

The only thing I could think of was that at the close range, throw might be more of a factor than at the longer distance, requiring a slight adjustment to hit the ball a bit thinner than half ball it. Looked like about 1/2 tip thinner.

I am interested to know if my theory on throw being more of a factor at close range is valid, and if I should adjust my aim slightly to accommodate for that. For now, I am working on shooting without applying side spin, so I don’t want to use english at the moment as a means to offset throw.

Looking very forward to your responses.

Thanks!!
Steve Sherman
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... CIT (collision induced throw, or "cling") happens all the time. ...
Just to avoid some confusion...

For me the term "cling" is very, very different from collision induced throw. "Cling" refers only to the fairly rare event that is also called "skid", "kick" (at snooker), and more generally "bad contact", and which usually seems to be caused by chalk at the contact point during collision.

I could be wrong, but I think most people who discuss pool use the word "cling" the way I do.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
What Bob Jewett said -- at close distance the cb is more than likely sliding (stun) into the ob, causing the shot to come off fat, closer to 24 degrees instead of a normal 28 or so degrees.

Set the same shot up and hit it using draw or a full tip of top and it'll be closer to 28° or so. Using a little outside english will work too.
 
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