BCA Open team from TAIWAN disqualified?

saint1 · May 22, 2012

Taiwan

El Diablo said:
The fact of the matter is that they had several pro level players playing in the open division, which is not fair. The same team last year had Rain Chiang on it, how far did he go in the 10-Ball U.S. Open? If the BCA intends on having several divisions based on level of play, they need to do something different to ensure this doesn't happen. They need to promote players to higher divisions based on team finishes as well as singles.

I agree hundred percent. I was flat out dishonesty! A previous post stated perhaps they may have been up to a master level? Not true. I played Wayne H. My teammate is a master and was on the hill for this event in 09(remember portugal) I seen many a pro play and this guy is better than them all. Their country sent them, paid all exspences, they had an interpreter, and all first names changed to american names. They live 800 miles apart from each other in Taiwan. Aren't all team members are suppose to be from the same league?

watchez · May 22, 2012

saint1 said:
I agree hundred percent. I was flat out dishonesty! A previous post stated perhaps they may have been up to a master level? Not true. I played Wayne H. My teammate is a master and was on the hill for this event in 09(remember portugal) I seen many a pro play and this guy is better than them all. Their country sent them, paid all exspences, they had an interpreter, and all first names changed to american names. They live 800 miles apart from each other in Taiwan. Aren't all team members are suppose to be from the same league?

It is idiotic posts such as yours that have absolutely no benefit to the conversation.

Taiwan is about the size of Maryland and Delaware combined - so how much can I bet you that these players don't live 800 miles from each other?

That being said, the rest of your comments are now discounted as well and in fact what is dishonesty here.

mikeyfrost · May 22, 2012

I watched those guys play, they played real strong. All I have to say is race to 5 8-ball with 1200 entrants, no one is stealing in that field. Just saying.

8BallWonderland · May 22, 2012

I think the same thing, you take Rodney Morris and put him in the 8 ball Open singles and he could easily lose out before the final 8.

In 2006 the BCAPL let Mick Hill and Karl Boyes play in the Masters division and not make them play Grand Masters.
They finished first and second and they got paid even though they were and are clearly at the Grand Master level.

If you allow them to pay their entry and play through the whole tournament then they should get paid.

watchez · May 22, 2012

8BallWonderland said:
I think the same thing, you take Rodney Morris and put him in the 8 ball Open singles and he could easily lose out before the final 8.

In 2006 the BCAPL let Mick Hill and Karl Boyes play in the Masters division and not make them play Grand Masters.
They finished first and second and they got paid even though they were and are clearly at the Grand Master level.

If you allow them to pay their entry and play through the whole tournament then they should get paid.

And Darren Appleton won the Grand Masters that year.

And all 3 of them plus two more English champions who had all DOCUMENTED titles all played together on a Masters team together. Oh and they got second to some young guys from Missouri.

And those 5 Englishman lived much farther away from each other than the Taiwanese players.

Eric. · May 22, 2012

watchez said:
It is idiotic posts such as yours that have absolutely no benefit to the conversation.

Taiwan is about the size of Maryland and Delaware combined - so how much can I bet you that these players don't live 800 miles from each other?

That being said, the rest of your comments are now discounted as well and in fact what is dishonesty here.

This much is true.

For one, Taiwan is less than 250 miles long. Two, all players were from the same BCAPL league number.

The other comment is that many residents of Taiwan speak both English and Mandarin. English is a requisite in school. Along with that, many students adopt Anglo first names to go wtih their native/birth names.

Eric

Mark Griffin · May 22, 2012

PLEASE read post #13 in this thread.
By the time we respond with the facts, the speculation will have things so distorted that it will not make any difference.

OR you can wait until we tell you what the facts are.

Mark Griffin

We will be releasing a statement after we get the office back together - since right now everything is in boxes. Should be about a week or maybe touch longer. I talked with many of the affected parties and told them middle of next week or so. They were OK with that - so I think that all others should be to.

I am not planning on responding to a lot of opionions and suggestions at this time - we have work to do to get back up and running.

So - lets try to keep the speculation to a minimum.

Mark Griffin. CEO
CSI - BCAPL - USAPL

Quote:
Originally Posted by watchez
The only people complaining about the July dates are the Canadians. So be it --- for everyone else, it will be a plus. And getting out of the Riviera is a bigger plus.

I would like to hear Mark G. words on the Taiwanese situation before I comment.

klockdoc · May 22, 2012

#Cruncher said:
klockdoc,

Unless they went under aliases, only the "weak link" on their team played at the BCA before, and he is probably only Advanced level. The other 4 are at least Master level players.

But, that is irrelevant. BCAPL promotes that! If you have players that play well and by doing so, advance your team to the next level of play....you either play in the higher level, or you recruit new players to allow you to play in the lower division.

I guess it was okay when the Chicago teams dominated the Vegas scene?

DogsPlayingPool · May 22, 2012

klockdoc said:
BCAPL breeds Junior National Champions all the time. They get to play in the Open Division! They're definitely are better than your normal league player, yet still get the chance.

I noticed that there are no junior division events at the Nationals. I know CSI is interested in developing juniors in the sport so I wonder if there just wouldn't be enough entries to make it viable. Obviously kids can't be traveling to Vegas without parental supervision.

Maybe the move to July will open up this possibility as all kids would certainly be done with school. I think it would be great and probably a spectator favorite. I'd certainly watch juniors playing good pool.

saint1 · May 22, 2012

watchez said:
It is idiotic posts such as yours that have absolutely no benefit to the conversation.

Taiwan is about the size of Maryland and Delaware combined - so how much can I bet you that these players don't live 800 miles from each other?

That being said, the rest of your comments are now discounted as well and in fact what is dishonesty here.

I was not aware that I could not comment on the topic. But I did not just make up my statements out of thin air. I played and lost to Wayne Huang. He could not speak or read English as I tried to talk about his S.West cue following the match. He had to refer to gal(translater) that came with the team. She stated that they came from all over Taiwan and some traveled as far as 800 miles just to practice as a team together. The other team members, I have no idea. This is all I know and I didn't ask her to take a polygraph. I didn't pull out a map and tell her to prove it. I am not a sore loser, I just don't think that they should be in the "open". And it looks like many other agree. I now see Mark G. commit and so will give him and his staff the respect and commit no more. I feel that the whole event was run very, very professionally and they did tremendous job. I know that they will do what is right and accept whatever they decide.

stuckart · May 22, 2012

watchez said:
It is idiotic posts such as yours that have absolutely no benefit to the conversation.

Taiwan is about the size of Maryland and Delaware combined - so how much can I bet you that these players don't live 800 miles from each other?

That being said, the rest of your comments are now discounted as well and in fact what is dishonesty here.

There was a commentator on the TAR Stream that even mentioned that all the Taiwan players lived 8 HOURS (not 800 miles) from each other by car, and possibly 5 hours by train. I think it was Charlie Williams who said that, and quickly the conversation got turned off the subject. This was replayed on the Riviera TV's when TAR was offline.

delmari001 · May 22, 2012

I don't understand why everyone is crying about playing a tough opponent. It was an open event. Taiwan (unlike the States) has numerous pool schools where you pay a monthly stipend to learn the game. They just don't go to a bar and hope to get better. Some are even ranked within their individual schools. And once you achieve a certain level, you are even sponsored...rather given the opportunity to travel and play in big tournaments. It's a different scene there. We've all played tough opponents/gotten hustled. As players we should challenge ourselves to reach a higher level. They were raised to the next level so they didn't get away with anything.

Black-Balled · May 22, 2012

delmari001 said:
I don't understand why everyone is crying about playing a tough opponent. It was an open event. Taiwan (unlike the States) has numerous pool schools where you pay a monthly stipend to learn the game. They just don't go to a bar and hope to get better. Some are even ranked within their individual schools. And once you achieve a certain level, you are even sponsored...rather given the opportunity to travel and play in big tournaments. It's a different scene there. We've all played tough opponents/gotten hustled. As players we should challenge ourselves to reach a higher level. They were raised to the next level so they didn't get away with anything.

You know all that about a land far-far away, but don't know what a stipend is?

Wowzers.

dannylee · May 22, 2012

I got to play them numerous times, there has to be a reason why CSI held out to pay them for singles other than they were too good. Waiting on mark to explain.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

delmari001 · May 22, 2012

Black-Balled said:
You know all that about a land far-far away, but don't know what a stipend is?

Wowzers.

I'm not going to get in a shouting match with you. Yes, you pay a monthly amount. And yes, I do have friends who live in Taiwan. So, are we good.

Black-Balled · May 22, 2012

delmari001 said:
I'm not going to get in a shouting match with you. Yes, you pay a monthly amount. And yes, I do have friends who live in Taiwan. So, are we good.

Is that a question?

sti·pend/ˈstīˌpend/Noun: A fixed regular sum paid as a salary or allowance

(and yes...we's is good!)

DogsPlayingPool · May 22, 2012

delmari001 said:
I don't understand why everyone is crying about playing a tough opponent. It was an open event. Taiwan (unlike the States) has numerous pool schools where you pay a monthly stipend to learn the game. They just don't go to a bar and hope to get better. Some are even ranked within their individual schools. And once you achieve a certain level, you are even sponsored...rather given the opportunity to travel and play in big tournaments. It's a different scene there. We've all played tough opponents/gotten hustled. As players we should challenge ourselves to reach a higher level. They were raised to the next level so they didn't get away with anything.

The reason it's an issue is that the open division at the BCAPL Nationals is not "open" like, say the US Open 10 Ball Championship is open. It is for players up to a certain skill level. Above that you are supposed to be in one of the higher divisions.

pooljunkie4ever · May 22, 2012

What if all these players had been here several times with other teams, but this year they decided to form an all-star team, is that illegal. Players don't have to go to nationals with the team that they qualified with.

IMO, with any handicap event, there will always be someone who shouldn't be qualified to play. Maybe one day that will be me, lol.

delmari001 · May 22, 2012

DogsPlayingPool said:
The reason it's an issue is that the open division at the BCAPL Nationals is not "open" like, say the US Open 10 Ball Championship is open. It is for players up to a certain skill level. Above that you are supposed to be in one of the higher divisions.

Thank you for clarifying that for me.

stuckart · May 22, 2012

pooljunkie4ever said:
What if all these players had been here several times with other teams, but this year they decided to form an all-star team, is that illegal. Players don't have to go to nationals with the team that they qualified with.

IMO, with any handicap event, there will always be someone who shouldn't be qualified to play. Maybe one day that will be me, lol.

Well, it's kind of against the rules to form teams in this fashion. But for individuals, they can just play their minimum 8 weeks of play in a sanctioned league (on 8 different nights) and come and play.

There is always going to be an issue with countries half way around the world from the US and trusting they legally played all the weeks mentioned and qualified as a team per the rules.

Here in the States it's a lot easier to manage as most big cities/counties have multiple BCAPL League Operators and for the Most Part they follow the rules correctly.

BCA Open team from TAIWAN disqualified?

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