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05-22-2012, 05:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by klockdoc View Post
You will need to show me that ruling that handicaps a player before playing the Nationals
From the BCAPL website under E3 Player Classifications of the Tournament Regulations:

2. Any player may be determined to be Advanced, Master or Grand Master by the Tournament Qualification Committee based on known ability or recent tournament results.

Here's the link: http://www.playbca.com/portals/0/2012nc/12tregs.pdf

--------

The Open division was not meant for top rated players to be able to come in and steal just because they haven't played in it before. I stand by my first statement that you called incorrect:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogsPlayingPool View Post
The reason it's an issue is that the open division at the BCAPL Nationals is not "open" like, say the US Open 10 Ball Championship is open. It is for players up to a certain skill level. Above that you are supposed to be in one of the higher divisions.
If you look at the eligibility for the open singles event, the chart says no one above open players are allowed to compete in that division.

If you look further down the regs at the eligibility for the teams competition, it specifically states each team is allowed no more than one advanced player and no master or grand master players.

Clearly the open division is not meant to be cherry picked by upper rated players.


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Last edited by DogsPlayingPool; 05-22-2012 at 06:18 PM.
  
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Payouts
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Payouts - 05-22-2012, 06:42 PM

One thing that might help is making higher payouts for the advanced/Master/Grand Master. Why is it that hundreds play in Open but only a few play in advanced. If the money moved up then the people might too.
  
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05-22-2012, 07:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogsPlayingPool View Post
From the BCAPL website under E3 Player Classifications of the Tournament Regulations:

2. Any player may be determined to be Advanced, Master or Grand Master by the Tournament Qualification Committee based on known ability or recent tournament results.

Here's the link: http://www.playbca.com/portals/0/2012nc/12tregs.pdf

--------

The Open division was not meant for top rated players to be able to come in and steal just because they haven't played in it before. I stand by my first statement that you called incorrect:



If you look at the eligibility for the open singles event, the chart sayBs no one above open players are allowed to compete in that divisioHn.

If you look further down the regs at the eligibility for the teams competition, it specifically states each team is allowed no more than one advanced player and no master or grand master players.

Clearly the open division is not meant to be cherry picked by upper rated players.
You aren't reading the rule as it is stated. You are applying a determination that is not being used. Sure, they have the right to judge the playing ability of known players. This would mean people that are above adverage players. Not your normal individual league player. Those that can play well and are not known, can play in the Open. It happens all the time.

This is a non-handicapped league and ALL players are not rated before playing the Nationals. You can stand by what you said ALL you want, but there is not a ruling to pre-judge all players except select few.


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Last edited by klockdoc; 05-22-2012 at 07:15 PM.
  
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The sad truth
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The sad truth - 05-22-2012, 07:57 PM

Hate to sound jaded here but it's all BS... The BCAPL doesn't give two shits about anything except making money and I guarantee you they took in a nice haul. They are a business and turning a profit is their sole priority. Which is fine but at least try a little harder to take care of your customers.
They could care less about blue collar joe league player.
Were these foreign players wrong? Why? Cause they "outdid" what countless others have done time and time before? Why are they being made an example of? Who determines what is too good and what isn't? Singling them out borders on rascism. The BCAPL better hope these guys don't sue them.
There are countless instances of players being placed in a division below their skill level. It happens every year. Why is this any different? The answer is that it isn't. Someone with connections must have complained. Probably someone who thought they were gonna rob the tournament. It's all a joke. In this day and age of the Internet, how does one get "robbed" completely unawares? The answer is you don't, the BCAPL was too busy making money to care. This is why there are so many different National tournaments nowadays.
  
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The sad truth
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The sad truth - 05-22-2012, 08:11 PM

Hate to sound jaded here but it's all BS... The BCAPL doesn't give two shits about anything except making money and I guarantee you they took in a nice haul. They are a business and turning a profit is their sole priority. Which is fine but at least try a little harder to take care of your customers.
They could care less about blue collar joe league player.
Were these foreign players wrong? Why? Cause they "outdid" what countless others have done time and time before? Why are they being made an example of? Who determines what is too good and what isn't? Singling them out borders on rascism. The BCAPL better hope these guys don't sue them.
There are countless instances of players being placed in a division below their skill level. It happens every year. Why is this any different? The answer is that it isn't. Someone with connections must have complained. Probably someone who thought they were gonna rob the tournament. It's all a joke. In this day and age of the Internet, how does one get "robbed" completely unawares? The answer is you don't, the BCAPL was too busy making money to care. This is why there are so many different National tournaments nowadays.
  
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05-22-2012, 08:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peeves View Post
Hate to sound jaded here but it's all BS... The BCAPL doesn't give two shits about anything except making money and I guarantee you they took in a nice haul. They are a business and turning a profit is their sole priority. Which is fine but at least try a little harder to take care of your customers.
They could care less about blue collar joe league player.
Were these foreign players wrong? Why? Cause they "outdid" what countless others have done time and time before? Why are they being made an example of? Who determines what is too good and what isn't? Singling them out borders on rascism. The BCAPL better hope these guys don't sue them.
There are countless instances of players being placed in a division below their skill level. It happens every year. Why is this any different? The answer is that it isn't. Someone with connections must have complained. Probably someone who thought they were gonna rob the tournament. It's all a joke. In this day and age of the Internet, how does one get "robbed" completely unawares? The answer is you don't, the BCAPL was too busy making money to care. This is why there are so many different National tournaments nowadays.
Mark Griffin has done a lot for the game of pool. Of course, he is trying to make money. It's a business but it's good business to help build the sport. He has already said that he will make statement about the issues that were raised in this thread. Until then, try not to lynch one of the games best ambassadors.


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05-22-2012, 08:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckart View Post
There was a commentator on the TAR Stream that even mentioned that all the Taiwan players lived 8 HOURS (not 800 miles) from each other by car, and possibly 5 hours by train. I think it was Charlie Williams who said that, and quickly the conversation got turned off the subject. This was replayed on the Riviera TV's when TAR was offline.
That wasnt Charlie Williams that was Andy Chen.

I asked him how big Taiwan is and he responded with "Taiwan is 8 hours long by car and 5 hours by train" more or less. He didnt say anything about how far anyone lived from anyone else. The subject was probably changed because there was a match going on and the geography of Taiwan didnt really figure into it much.

Last edited by JCIN; 05-22-2012 at 08:40 PM.
  
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05-22-2012, 08:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peeves View Post
Hate to sound jaded here but it's all BS... The BCAPL doesn't give two shits about anything except making money and I guarantee you they took in a nice haul. They are a business and turning a profit is their sole priority. Which is fine but at least try a little harder to take care of your customers.
They could care less about blue collar joe league player.
Were these foreign players wrong? Why? Cause they "outdid" what countless others have done time and time before? Why are they being made an example of? Who determines what is too good and what isn't? Singling them out borders on rascism. The BCAPL better hope these guys don't sue them.
There are countless instances of players being placed in a division below their skill level. It happens every year. Why is this any different? The answer is that it isn't. Someone with connections must have complained. Probably someone who thought they were gonna rob the tournament. It's all a joke. In this day and age of the Internet, how does one get "robbed" completely unawares? The answer is you don't, the BCAPL was too busy making money to care. This is why there are so many different National tournaments nowadays.
Its a well known fact Mark Griffin got on his new Boeing Business Jet (with Leopard Skin interior) and jetted off to some tropical locale to roll around in all the millions the BCAPL made last week.

True story.

I know about the jet cause its parked right next to TAR Space Shuttle at McCarran Airport.
  
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05-22-2012, 08:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCIN View Post
That wasnt Charlie Williams that was Andy Chen.

I asked him how big Taiwan is and he responded with "Taiwan is 8 hours long by car and 5 hours by train" more or less. He didnt say anything about how far anyone lived from anyone else. The subject was probably changed because there was a match going on and the geography of Taiwan didnt really figure into it much.
Taiwan is 8 hours long, but that is from the most southern tip to the most northern tip. Realistically it is just 5 hour drive from Kaohsiung to Taipei, and in between them are where most people live. There is a high speed rail now which can take you from Kaohsiung to Taipei is less than 1.5 hours.
  
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05-22-2012, 08:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peeves View Post
Hate to sound jaded here but it's all BS... The BCAPL doesn't give two shits about anything except making money and I guarantee you they took in a nice haul. They are a business and turning a profit is their sole priority. Which is fine but at least try a little harder to take care of your customers.
They could care less about blue collar joe league player.
Were these foreign players wrong? Why? Cause they "outdid" what countless others have done time and time before? Why are they being made an example of? Who determines what is too good and what isn't? Singling them out borders on rascism. The BCAPL better hope these guys don't sue them.
There are countless instances of players being placed in a division below their skill level. It happens every year. Why is this any different? The answer is that it isn't. Someone with connections must have complained. Probably someone who thought they were gonna rob the tournament. It's all a joke. In this day and age of the Internet, how does one get "robbed" completely unawares? The answer is you don't, the BCAPL was too busy making money to care. This is why there are so many different National tournaments nowadays.

Peeves,

It seems as though you feel that you have a good understanding of what goes on in the pool world.

I happen to know quite a bit about what goes on in the pool world, and I disagree with your statements above. There are countless ways Mark Griffin could make more money with less effort than owning the BCAPL.

I'd be happy to discuss it with you. To get started, we need to clarify ourselves so we know who we're discussing with.

My name is Royce Bunnell. I am co-owner of OB Cues located in Plano Texas.

Let us know who you are and we can compare our thoughts about the pool world.


Royce Bunnell (RBC) unfortunately passed away on November 26th 2015. He is dearly missed by the OB family.

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05-22-2012, 08:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentwu817 View Post
Taiwan is 8 hours long, but that is from the most southern tip to the most northern tip. Realistically it is just 5 hour drive from Kaohsiung to Taipei, and in between them are where most people live. There is a high speed rail now which can take you from Kaohsiung to Taipei is less than 1.5 hours.
Looks like Andy took the long way.
  
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Lol - 05-22-2012, 09:02 PM

To all I have offended I apologize. I never meant any disrespect to Mark Griffin. My comments were directed at the BCAPL which I think qualifies as an organization/corporation. My comments are simply my own opinion. Last time I checked, this was still an Internet forum for doing so. I think its a little silly to get all upset because I critiqued a corporate group... This isn't a professional media outlet so save your accusations of libel please. I ***** about my iPhone and Apple all the time but guess what, I'm sure they don't care as long as I keep giving them my money. Same thing with the BCAPL. Guess that makes me a sucker.
Even if you can't pronounce their names, doesn't change the fact that the champs from Taiwan were known players. Simply put, that situation was poorly handled. C'est la vie.
Me posting my name on here does not validate or invalidate my opinions so boo! It does nothing and I have no interest in a pissing match. So good day to all!
  
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05-22-2012, 09:23 PM

This is no doubt a difficult issue for the BCAPL, I understand. I believe though, that the "open" division brings in the majority of the players and money coming to the tournament. Playing that level of players (and I'm not just talking about the Taiwan team), just doesn't seem fair to me. I'm certainly not for handicapping, people will game the system regardless. I love playing better players and teams in smaller towns know the deal before they go. They know it's going to be tough.

I will say though, a friend of mine's first open singles match was played against a player who played previous master's tournaments outside of bca. I googled the guy's name and found that out. I didn't tell my friend about it, but he noted on his facebook that it was the best player he'd played in Vegas in probably the last seven years.

I don't think the league operators are doing their job ranking players.
  
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05-22-2012, 09:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCIN View Post
That wasnt Charlie Williams that was Andy Chen.

I asked him how big Taiwan is and he responded with "Taiwan is 8 hours long by car and 5 hours by train" more or less. He didnt say anything about how far anyone lived from anyone else. The subject was probably changed because there was a match going on and the geography of Taiwan didnt really figure into it much.
You probably got the audio somewhere, cause I'm fairly positive that the question was asked about how far some of the Taiwan players would have had to travel to play with each other.

Either way, I spoke with one of the girl translators of Yeo Lu who told me directly that they were from all over the country and some met up at tournaments throughout the year only, and not in a every week league like all the american players.

I just wonder which country people will be talking about next year.


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Last edited by stuckart; 05-22-2012 at 09:36 PM.
  
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05-22-2012, 09:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MN_Josh View Post
One thing that might help is making higher payouts for the advanced/Master/Grand Master. Why is it that hundreds play in Open but only a few play in advanced. If the money moved up then the people might too.
Well, I believe there is more added money to the higher divisions already and it's structured that way. But with 1200 players entering the lower division it still has the largest payout.

The advanced division is still fairly new and I think it will grow in a few years time. I just wish we could bucket all the players that are way underrated into these divisions and have less controversy!

I personally witnessed 2 different players dump their matches in 49th place so they wouldn't be bumped up to Advanced and could continue to skim off the Open Status. That just makes me sick that anyone would do that!


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