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03-03-2013, 01:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CreeDo View Post
...If you think you see a magic rack knockoff used in a pro event, someone should mention it to him so he can sue their pants off.
Well, for sure they aren't using knock-off MBRs in the USBTC.


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03-03-2013, 03:11 AM

I'm here at the USBTC. There has been zero talk about manipulation of the Magic Racks themselves to make balls more wired. The Problem is 9-ball itself and pattern racking.

9-ball is a broken game!

I watched Shane and Jayson Shaw teach a bunch of friends how to soft break and rack the balls to gain an advantage on the 2nd night of 10-ball. They were all laughing like crazy and each were taking turns doing it.

Griffin said that next year that the 9-ball event will be Rack for your Opponent, using the Magic Rack to prevent the pattern racking. This is a good first step! Although we all know that there are opposite pattern racking to effect your opponent, which might actually make everyone break the balls hard.


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03-03-2013, 07:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarneyCalip View Post
Cheating only if it is against the rules in a tournament.

Look at Orcullo at the Swanne.
Can't wait for POV Pool to put it up on Youtube.

Orcullo meticulously placed the Magic Rack on the table.

I touch and move the balls in the Magic Rack to make sure they are touching........grin

Me cheat, I'm a honest Pool Player.
Never heard of Touch of cheating or Seen someone sharking.

Thanks Joe Tucker.
Shaw had every right to say something and didn't. In fact, if you wach the match Shaw started using the same pattern later in the match. If wouldn't of mattered where you put the balls Orcullo was winning that match.
  
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DogsPlayingPool
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03-03-2013, 02:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckart View Post
...Griffin said that next year that the 9-ball event will be Rack for your Opponent, using the Magic Rack to prevent the pattern racking. This is a good first step! Although we all know that there are opposite pattern racking to effect your opponent, which might actually make everyone break the balls hard.
Not sure how the MBR prevents pattern racking. It actually is much more conducive to pattern racking than a triangle.

Having said that, if they go to opponent rack the MBR should help keep up the pace of play and minimize slugs. And while certainly the opponent can pattern rack defensively, this is much less of a problem since the breaker always has the option of pushing out or running a few balls then playing safe just before the problems are encountered.

In other words the player who was the victim of pattern racking at least has control of the table with opponent rack whereas with rack your own pattern racking the victim is stuck in his chair and there is nothing he can do about it.

Opponent rack is at least a step in the right direction in this situation.


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cardiac kid
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03-03-2013, 03:51 PM

Guys,

To stop pattern racking in its place, why not force all players to use the ultimate pattern rack. One in the front. Two and three second row. Four, nine and five in the third row. Six and seven in the fourth row and eight ball behind. Use the Sardo. Use the Magic Rack. Use whatever you want but EVERY rack is the same ball structure. Players might not like it but hey, what are you going to do if it's the rule! As one poster put it, it might save an hour or two at every event! Might also end the endless arguments .

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03-03-2013, 04:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckart View Post
I watched Shane and Jayson Shaw teach a bunch of friends how to soft break and rack the balls to gain an advantage on the 2nd night of 10-ball. They were all laughing like crazy and each were taking turns doing it.
Did you notice how SVB and Dennis did in the 8 ball event? Can't pattern rack and 12mph break 8ball, thank goodness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckart View Post
Griffin said that next year that the 9-ball event will be Rack for your Opponent, using the Magic Rack to prevent the pattern racking. This is a good first step! Although we all know that there are opposite pattern racking to effect your opponent, which might actually make everyone break the balls hard.
Good

Quote:
Originally Posted by cardiac kid View Post
Guys,

To stop pattern racking in its place, why not force all players to use the ultimate pattern rack. One in the front. Two and three second row. Four, nine and five in the third row. Six and seven in the fourth row and eight ball behind. Use the Sardo. Use the Magic Rack. Use whatever you want but EVERY rack is the same ball structure. Players might not like it but hey, what are you going to do if it's the rule! As one poster put it, it might save an hour or two at every event! Might also end the endless arguments .

Lyn
This isn't a bad idea.


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Johnnyt
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03-03-2013, 04:58 PM

Well they need to come up with some way to stop BS the racking before everyone gets bored watching the same table layout. I'm even thinking of not buying anymore PPV 9 ball matches, and I buy a lot of PPV. Johnnyt


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03-03-2013, 05:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyt View Post
Well they need to come up with some way to stop BS the racking before everyone gets bored watching the same table layout. I'm even thinking of not buying anymore PPV 9 ball matches, and I buy a lot of PPV. Johnnyt
Well, that's an issue with any preset pattern, even one determined by officials. And this would still come down to a breaking contest with the advantage going to the guy who can find the speed that separates the balls into the open and allows an easier run out.


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maybe - 03-03-2013, 07:52 PM

Should we get rid of the kickoff in the NFL, or maybe the punter? Come on. the break is part of the game and if someone does it better than others, so be it. The game doesn't shouldn't be changed to make the players equal.

Does everyone draw the ball the same; bank the ball the balls the same; kick the balls the same; etc.... Why should the break be any different?

It is time to quit complaining. I get excited when they make the game look easy. I can sit an watch Shane play for hours when he comes to Fargo Billiards, and not get bored.


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03-03-2013, 08:03 PM

Have a referee (neutral racker) rack the balls. End of story. If the players don't like it... Don't play.

I'm sure there are enough players, that wouldn't mind, that it would still have a full field of entrants.
  
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There must always be consequences for negative or unwanted behavior
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Arrow There must always be consequences for negative or unwanted behavior - 03-03-2013, 08:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAVE_M View Post
Have a referee (neutral racker) rack the balls. End of story. If the players don't like it... Don't play.

I'm sure there are enough players, that wouldn't mind, that it would still have a full field of entrants.
Yes, this is the solution, and I'm sure they will start doing it right away now that it's been presented formally.

I have done many TV events with FOX SPORTS and ESPN and a Referee racked the balls in EVERY MATCH on TV. No problems at all, we rarely even looked at the rack, just trusted the Ref and broke the balls.

The Refs need to be highly respected and have the ability to "correct" anyone that gets out of line. Just like any others, the professional players need to be managed in a sophisticated, yet firm manner.

There must always be consequences for negative or unwanted behavior, AND the players must be told what those guidelines are. This isn't being done these days for some unknown reason.


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03-03-2013, 11:41 PM

I agree neutral racker is the best way to go.
  
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03-04-2013, 01:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotaction99 View Post
I agree neutral racker is the best way to go.
Since this thread was started about the USBTC I will use the schedule of it to ask a question.

How do you have a neutral racker on forty tables ? For eight to nine rounds a day for seven days ? First round at 10 AM last round at 10 PM. Thats about 13 hours per day figuring the matches run an hour long.

Its a serious question. If someone can answer it I am sure it will be considered.

Even if you have ten guys each responsible for four tables each with the first round at 10 AM last round at 10 PM. Thats about 13 hours per day figuring the matches run an hour long. Thats 130 man hours per day times seven days equals 910 man hours for the tournament. A 91 hour work week per man. Double the manpower to twenty guys and its still 45.5 hours per man racking balls. What ten or twenty people are going to come rack balls for a week ? If you pay them $10 an hour thats over $9K in expenses not counting hotel rooms or transportation.

If someone can find a real way to get around the logistics and cost issues of having a neutral racker for everyone in the USBTC I would bet Mark would give it a shot. So lets brainstorm a little.

Volunteers won't work. That is a non-starter for numerous reasons the main one being volunteers tend to un-volunteer quickly when they get tired or someone is a d!ck to them because they lost a match.

My thought is maybe local Boy Scout troops or youth groups like high school bands or something who do it as a fund raiser. Tack on money to the registration fee to form a fund of money that the group gets when the tournament is finished. This would have the added benefit of introducing young people to the game. Downside is do you really want a bunch of kids/teenagers running around a tournament and being responsible for racking ? Maybe but I think it would cause a whole new set of issues. Its an interesting possibility though.

So if neutral rackers are the answer how about instead of complaining everyone takes a shot at a positive solution to the problem? All you need is 910 man hours of reliable labor and a way to pay for it.
  
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03-04-2013, 01:09 AM

Well if a neutral racker is not the solution. What is?
  
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03-04-2013, 01:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotaction99 View Post
Well if a neutral racker is not the solution. What is?
I am not saying a neutral racker is not the solution. I am asking if it is the solution then how do you go about implementing it ?

I offered a possible answer that has its own pitfalls. I am curious to hear others ideas.

Last edited by JCIN; 03-04-2013 at 01:24 AM.
  
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