Best way to roll forward just a bit on longer shots?

Punch the ball half tip above the center: stun run through.

I think the pro way to do it is to hit it low, at a speed that the cb just turns over before impacting ob and rolls into ob.

That said, the way you approach it really depends on the distance between cb/ob.

find your stop shot position for your tip on the cue ball based on the speed you plan to hit it
go 1/4-1/2 tip higher for just "alittle roll forward"

I prefer the draw method or slow roll if I know that table is level.

longhorns2 said:

Which do you think is the most reliable? Lately I've been doing the draw type shot but seems like it gives more of a chance for masse effect if hit off center and more of a chance for a table roll

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as mentioned above, I would do a drag draw shot for that...…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y__tA70zxas

You have to know all the methods so that you can also control the speed of the OB if you are playing a shot where you are not pocketing it.

That said, I’m not good enough to say which is most reliable if you are pocketing the ball. I bet they are all about the same for a given speed player.

longhorns2 said:

Say you have straight in shot downtable and you just want to roll forward a couple inches. You can either strike the ball slightly above center, but you have to hit the cb kinda hard so that it doesn't get too much forward roll, you can hit it center ball and have just a bit of forward roll develop, or you can hit a draw shot with less force so it turns into forward roll.

Which do you think is the most reliable? Lately I've been doing the draw type shot but seems like it gives more of a chance for masse effect if hit off center and more of a chance for a table roll

Edit: and I guess you can also just roll it slow but on the tables I play on that's not a great option

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I'd guess the drag draw method is the pro's choice. Because you're striking the cue ball below center, the cue ball is kind of gliding across the cloth as opposed to rolling, so it is far less susceptible to rolling off. The cue ball stops gliding and starts rolling just before it reaches the object ball, resulting in the cue ball rolling just slightly forward after contact with the object ball. Of course this shot takes much practice to execute with consistency from different distances (cue ball to object ball) and different distances (in inches) you want the cue ball to roll beyond the object ball.

A learning opportunity

Take a striped ball and use it as a cue ball. Hit the ball below center and notice how it first skids, then spins backward, eventually friction stops its backspin and the ball appears to almost stop then rolls forwards on its circumference. The moment between forwards and backwards is key. If a second ball is hit at that moment, the cue ball either stops or goes at 90° to the object ball path.

The lower you hit the ball the more backspin. The more backspin, the more it acts like brakes on the cue ball. The trick is to learn what happens if you hit a stun shot using varying amounts of backspin and speeds, so that the spin evaporates half way to the object ball. On a straight in shot that you want to roll ahead a foot or so, imagine hitting a stun shot at a ball half the distance away.

Start with a medium stroke. See how far the ball rolls forward after direct contact. Now hit it with lower adjusting the force so that the backspin disappears in the same location. The different speed and backspin combos result in varying follow distances. You need to establish a base reference then adjust from there on the table based on needs.

A firm stroke with center ball often skids most of the way and doesn’t develop much forward roll. Learn what you get for results with your stroke.

Drag shot is the best option.

A drag shot is hit with backspin, but only so much that the CB makes the transition to forward rolling a couple inches before hitting OB.

When I need to make a shot across the table length but have the CB roll forward only a little after impact, assuming it's a straight shot, I'll just smack the CB hard. The reason I don't want it to roll forward some more is usually to prevent a scratch on perfectly straight shots. When hit at high speed, the CB usually stops in place or, if not, retains some speed but gets deflected at a small angle, thus missing the pocket. Hitting it below center with little speed would work too, but it often messes with my aim over such long distances. I rather not bother with where I hit the CB but how hard I hit it. Going center ball using cannon power usually gives me the appropriate result.

bbb said:

find your stop shot position for your tip on the cue ball based on the speed you plan to hit it
go 1/4-1/2 tip higher for just "alittle roll forward"

Click to expand...

Another way, if you can visualize it successfully, is to imagine hitting a stop shot on a "ghost" OB that's a little closer than the actual one, more or less closer depending on how much rollthrough you want.

pj
chgo

ChrisinNC said:

I'd guess the drag draw method is the pro's choice. Because you're striking the cue ball below center, the cue ball is kind of gliding across the cloth as opposed to rolling, so it is far less susceptible to rolling off. The cue ball stops gliding and starts rolling just before it reaches the object ball, resulting in the cue ball rolling just slightly forward after contact with the object ball. Of course this shot takes much practice to execute with consistency from different distances (cue ball to object ball) and different distances (in inches) you want the cue ball to roll beyond the object ball.

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Good explanation.

longhorns2 said:

Just tried this for a little bit and it worked very well. Feel like you have to trust it a little because it feels like you're gonna get force follow from it. Seems to work when you can see the full cb because when you're jacked up at all it gets trickier to get the exact spot

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Yes less angle on the OB makes it easier to hold the Q ball.

Jacked up is time for Plan B. Maybe play shape for a different shot or slow roll it.

You want to do a Ram shot but have both feet slightly off the ground at impact with the cueball - that will give the cueball the perfect speed to just roll forward after impact with the object ball.
Tip: you might want to wear a cup for this shot
Tip 2: A loud scream as you release your stroke often helps as well

I vote for the drag shot. It takes some practice but, in my case, I use a very similar stroke speed to my normal stroke. I just cue it lower the farther it is away. I may have to stroke a little harder for a long shot on dirty worn in cloth. A stun follow 8’ away takes a very hard stroke. I’m not a fan of taking that big of a swing.

Just my .02.



Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

stun run through

Patrick Johnson said:

Another way, if you can visualize it successfully, is to imagine hitting a stop shot on a "ghost" OB that's a little closer than the actual one, more or less closer depending on how much rollthrough you want.

pj
chgo

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This. This is exactly it.

The stun run through is best. Drag-draw was my favorite for many years, particularly on older and slower cloth with bigger pockets. On slick diamonds I don't like it as much. The premium on accuracy is higher and it's harder to generate accuracy on a drag-draw as the slightest mishit can cause it to twist off line. I use it when needed but not when there are alternatives.

Where I cue depends on distance. I try to solve for the right stroke speed first, then use the cueing needed to get the right results at that speed. Not hard, not soft, but nice, smooth, and firm. Generally I cue pretty close to center ball.

This tip about punching forward is money. I used this for the first few years I worked on this shot. Now I have a good enough feel I just go off of experience, but it was a great tool. Even now I use the same tool backwards, i.e. if I need to draw back just a few inches from a long distance I'll shoot a low ball stop shot at a ghost ball a foot past my object ball and I know it will have a little draw left over to back me up a hair.

Good luck all.

There are several ways of doing this, but they require different degrees of touch and stroke.

The most common are the drag-draw and the stun-follow.

I use both, but it depends upon the table layout and how far the object ball is from the pocket and how good I feel my stroke is working for that particular day.

HawaiianEye said:

There are several ways of doing this, but they require different degrees of touch and stroke.

The most common are the drag-draw and the stun-follow.

I use both, but it depends upon the table layout and how far the object ball is from the pocket and how good I feel my stroke is working for that particular day.

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To explain the difference for myself and others who may be confused, the stun run is hit at a harder pace and more center ball contact with the cue tip than the drag draw which may be hit at a little easier pace but with cue tip contact lower on the cue ball?