A different perspective on the Mosconi Cup

M

mia

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JAM said:
And one more thing, none of those players know who or what the heck a "mia" is on this forum, but they do know who I am. I don't want to make a blanket statement about the caliber of play of Johnny or Shane or Earl or Rodney or Dennis without explaining why. You call this making excuses, but I call it letting the person know I am writing about why I wrote what I wrote, becuase I may run into them one day down the road. I don't dislike any of the members of Team USA, but I have explained my thoughts in a manner, so they will understand where I am coming from.

So you can take your little smart-ass retort and stuff it, "mia."
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LOL. Why would they know what a 'mia' is??? I'm not a pro player. My game is nowhere NEAR their level. I'm not questioning their skills as pool players. This was never about their ability on the table. I'm questioning their ability to show some class, some respect, and some professionalism while playing in a PROFESSIONAL event and representing the US on an international and very public stage. How are you still not getting that?!?!
 
J

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
mia said:
LOL. Why would they know what a 'mia' is??? I'm not a pro player. My game is nowhere NEAR their level. I'm not questioning their skills as pool players. This was never about their ability on the table. I'm questioning their ability to show some class, some respect, and some professionalism while playing in a PROFESSIONAL event and representing the US on an international and very public stage. How are you still not getting that?!?!
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The GERALD R. FORD was dedicated in the Hampton Roads area. It's a beautiful carrier.
 
CJ Wiley

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
Everything seemed fine last year,

PoolSharkAllen said:
Even if some of the players do read the forums, I don't think they really care. There's been no apology for their poor behavior, no evidence of contrition from anyone, and no one saying that things will be different next year. :rolleyes:

Instead the strategy is to lay low and wait for the ruckus to blow over as it inevitably will. Then rinse and repeat next year.
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Everything seemed fine last year, I wonder what happened? :confused:
 
J

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CJ Wiley said:
Everything seemed fine last year, I wonder what happened? :confused:
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Well, they didn't win then, either. :grin-square:

I think the Team USA members looked at this year's Mosconi Cup more as a social event with a paycheck than as a competition to win the honor of the title. :sorry:
 
justadub

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
JAM said:
Well, they didn't win then, either. :grin-square:

I think the Team USA members looked at this year's Mosconi Cup more as a social event with a paycheck than as a competition to win the honor of the title. :sorry:
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I believe there is much truth in this. At least so far as getting prepared for the event.

Then, once its all happening and they are caught up in it, its too late to become prepared.
 
P

pdcue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JAM said:
While I appreciate the thread, reading these same thoughts over and over again is like pounding the members of Team USA with a hammer after they have lost. Don't you think they feel bad enough as it is? What else can be said after reading the hundreds of posts last night and today about what a POS the American pro is?

It is tragic that the state of pool is what it is here in the America, but there seems to be a caste system. The BCA members should be held accountable for letting professional pool die in the manner which it has.

You wonder why American pros are the way they are? Because there's no tour, no BCA support, no WPA support, nothing.

So while we can continue to verbally tar and feather the members of Team USA and other American pro players, it's not entirely the fault of these pros.

Nothing will change if we keep hammering in the same thoughts, stereotyping all American pros. If the American pros had something to shoot for, you'd see a different American pro. That's my perspective of the Mosconi Cup.

BCA needs to have their authority ripped away from them, and some new entity needs to take the reigns. When that unmentionable IPT came to the fore, the pros acted and dressed professionally. It's not so far-fetched to think that if they had something ot shoot for, they'd conduct themselves differently.
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No one would welcome a thriving pro game more than I.

But.
Where were you in 1977?

In 1966 the BCA revived the long dead 14.1 championship tournament,
the U S Open. Which became the de facto world championship. It wasn't
much money, but the days of Brunswick funding tournaments were long
gone by then.

The top players of the time - once again - decided they wern't being treated well enough
and bolted to form their own - player run(into the ground) PPPA and its
World Championship Tournament.

Following years saw such shoot-yourself-in-the-foot antics as the fiasco
of turning their promotional activities over to a self serving twit, and the
brilliant decision to SUE Camel Cigarettes, just to mention a couple.

Is it any wonder no one is lining up for the honor of supporting pro players?

Combine that with the fact that pool just is not ever going to be an even
marginally popular spectator activity to Americans and you get a low
probability of good things to come for pro pool.

Dale(who was there to see it)
 
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H

Hawk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CJ Wiley said:
Everything seemed fine last year, I wonder what happened? :confused:
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CJ, I was really pulling for Earl, I think he did play the best of the US team. But you really have to wonder how things could have been if he could have kept on an even keel.
When he was announced for team USA I just assumed there would be someone sitting right behind him "talking him down", or in general just supporting Earl when he needed it. Other than one brief moment from Buddy it looked like Earl was left out to dry. If you were there, captain or not, what would you have done to get the best out of Earl.
 
mikeyfrost

mikeyfrost

Socially Aware
Silver Member
JAM said:
Well, they didn't win then, either. :grin-square:

I think the Team USA members looked at this year's Mosconi Cup more as a social event with a paycheck than as a competition to win the honor of the title. :sorry:
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There you go making sense.

"Why is everyone so upset about the Mosconi cup? Both teams got what they wanted team America wanted that check and the Europeans wanted to win." ~ James Roberts
 
B

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
justadub said:
I believe there is much truth in this. At least so far as getting prepared for the event.

Then, once its all happening and they are caught up in it, its too late to become prepared.
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People have said that US players aren't "team" players.

Perhaps that's because pool (as it's currently played at the pro level) isn't a team sport; it's Me vs. You.

If we practiced for a team event, would I be comfortable telling you "don't leave me with a back-cut that needs low-inside english. I hate that shot."

I'd be revealing a weakness to you. Sure, this week you're my teammate. But the rest of the year you're my competitor.
 
N

NYC cue dude

Banned
JAM said:
And one more thing, none of those players know who or what the heck a "mia" is on this forum, but they do know who I am. I don't want to make a blanket statement about the caliber of play of Johnny or Shane or Earl or Rodney or Dennis without explaining why. You call this making excuses, but I call it letting the person know I am writing about why I wrote what I wrote, becuase I may run into them one day down the road. I don't dislike any of the members of Team USA, but I have explained my thoughts in a manner, so they will understand where I am coming from.

So you can take your little smart-ass retort and stuff it, "mia."
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They damn well know who I am, to a man. 1 of them is a good friend of mine.
 
Pathetic Shark

Pathetic Shark

Banned
mia said:
Here's what I think. Had you answered my questions with the two sentences I've highlighted above with red type and cut out the 9 paragraphs of "but he's a friend" and "he was feeling pressure" and "product of his upbringing" crap that is completely unnecessary and reads as a series of long-winded excuses, there would probably be a lot less back and forth about this between yourself and several others on these threads. Those two sentences say "yes, I agree that they acted poorly". The 9 paragraphs in between read as excuses and defense of some friends, with the occasional smart-alec remark thrown in for good measure because, hey. That's your style, right?
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I would love to talk football with Lionel Messi. His missus, less so.
 
Pathetic Shark

Pathetic Shark

Banned
CJ Wiley said:
Everything seemed fine last year, I wonder what happened? :confused:
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LOL!!!

Do you seriously think a captain makes a difference? Really, enough time has passed for everyone to have a little honest appraisal about the state of the game in America. If this is the best you can do, you need to start asking some SERIOUS questions of your structures and systems.

You are not producing world class players. That's it. Forget this swearing and team nonsense and concentrate on that.

Or...don't. The other alternative is to accept your slide into oblivion with good grace.
 
P

pro9dg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JoeyA said:
Contempt, entitlement, disinterest, vulgarity, sharking, cheating, incorrect focus, and a lack of team camaraderie.

I added a couple of more items to your list. I'm not sure how fair all of these items are but I highlighted them in my trademark blue, because they deserve to be emphasized if for nothing more than the perusal of those in the this forum or by chance, members of the USA Mosconi Cup Team.

I am usually hesitant to pile on with negative criticism of the U.S.A. "professional" pool players because their life is not an easy one but I respect their journey and the difficult path they have chosen. It is with resignation that I agree with your post.

A few years back, Doug Gordon (a fine, respected European promoter/pool aficionado and friend of America) and I took it upon ourselves to write a CODE OF CONDUCT for pool players of all ranges. The chore wasn't taken lightly and Doug and I put forth some great effort.

It was published in the Sticky Notes of AZ Billiards for years but a few, loud, whiney babies from this very forum, cried unceasingly to the moderators and owners of this site, wailing about how it was useless, how it had no teeth and just wasn't relative.

Eventually the owners grew tired of these few whiners and removed the CODE OF CONDUCT from AZ Billiards. I mention this because it really isn't just the professional pool players who lack the will to build or carry themselves in the manner needed. A few unsavory people with mean-spirited vengeful agendas managed to coerce the very owners of this site into removing the CODE OF CONDUCT for pool players.

I have to concede that our CODE OF CONDUCT was merely a sign post for people involved with pool and that it had no teeth but instead of Americans pulling in the same direction, they managed to divert a harmless sign post over the cliff. The owners of this forum also have to be held responsible for allowing the patients to run the asylum. So you see it is not just the USA Mosconi Cup Team that has let America down. This self-centered, egocentricity runs throughout America and I'm not sure if there is any hope of anything changing.

Maybe as others have opined; "pool is what it is and doesn't need a face lift" and maybe that is true here in America; but sad nevertheless.

It sure seems that in other parts of the globe, pool is viewed in an entirely different manner.

My ideas about bringing in fresh, young talent, like Landon Shuffett has fallen victim to the European Mosconi Cup management perspective that the pressure would be too great for young, up and coming athletes.

And perhaps my silence and the silence of others, bears some responsibility as well. Thanks for starting this thread.

JoeyA
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Well Joey.if you recall - we didn't take it on ourselves to create this document. You enlisted my help and told me that the project was unofficially commissioned by one the owners of AZ.
I was surprised that it was taken down because at the time it was still very relevant.
With a few minor updates it would be even more relevant today.

This CODE OF CONDUCT wasn't just a few ideas cobbled together over a weekend. You put a lot of work into it and I know that I certainly did.
Now it languishes on my Hard Drive - forgotten!

Now to add insult to insult I get verbally abused when I am making constructive suggestions
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=343184&page=4
Such is life.
 
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Pathetic Shark

Pathetic Shark

Banned
pro9dg said:
Well Joey.if you recall - we didn't take it on ourselves to create this document. You enlisted my help and told me that the project was unofficially commissioned by one the owners of AZ.
I was surprised that it was taken down because at the time it was still very relevant.
With a few minor updates it would be even more relevant today.

This CODE OF CONDUCT wasn't just a few ideas cobbled together over a weekend. You put a lot of work into it and I know that I certainly did.
Now it languishes on my Hard Drive - forgotten! Such is life.
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Can you repost it?
 
P

PoolSharkAllen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
pro9dg said:
Well Joey.if you recall - we didn't take it on ourselves to create this document. You enlisted my help and told me that the project was unofficially commissioned by one the owners of AZ.
I was surprised that it was taken down because at the time it was still very relevant.
With a few minor updates it would be even more relevant today.
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I looked at that "Code of Conduct" thread earlier this afternoon.

There is good content in that thread, however, it appears that it doesn't really belong as a Sticky to the AZB Main Forum. It does belong as a Sticky to a online version of a "governing body" for pool, providing they approve of the document as written.
 
SmoothStroke

SmoothStroke

Swim for the win.
Silver Member
15 min of fame, shoot yourself with a bazooka

1) Always act like you have been there before
2) Act professional at all times
3) You win as a team and you lose as a team
4) Win or lose with style, grace, dignity, class, always a professional
5) Win or Lose, always compliment your opponent, never talk about yourself good or bad. It's what the word HUMBLE is all about

Unless ESPN told the players to hoot and holler like little league it was the most ridiculous show I have ever seen from grown men...!!!WOW!!! We won a game, made a shot, took a match... The score is 7000 to 1 and you high five and fist pump like its hill hill. There are 2 minutes left in the 4th quarter and you are down 38 - 3......Sit down and STFU. From the opening break of the match STFU.

Emotion is a good thing and makes for great T.V. How you express your emotion is what counts and reflects on you as a person or a group.

American players today ( not all ) look up to many past and present players, the drug addicts, drunks, barkers, deal makers, pulling moves, dumpers, etc etc. For the most part pieces of shit (Not All) that can stroke straight. Hopefully the young will learn to be respectful to themselves and the game. Until then this game will be in a cess pool where it belongs. Walk into the pool room and you can smell the methane.

I love pool but I can't stand being around pool players overall as group, Need I say why?

Job well done by the Europeans
 
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