BCA Nationals now "World" tournament?

Cornerman

Cornerman

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If The BCA Pool League isn’t allowed to call their own sanctioned event that brings together sanctioned league players from around the world to a single locale and tournament as a BCA Pool League “World Championship,” then nobody should be allowed any simple regional title like State Champion or City Champion, sanctioned or not by any outfit.




That would suck. A person in Texas who wins the ACS Texas State Tourney should have the right to be called a State Champion even if it’s not sanctioned with the WPA or the BCA (not BCAPL). A person who wins a non-affiliated, amateur New Hampshire State championship shouldnt be afraid to say he’s a State Champion, regardless of the WPA.

Maybe BCA Pool League International Championship is less annoying?


Freddie <~~~ world champion attendee
 
azhousepro

azhousepro

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Freddie, in most states there is no governing body to determine state championships. The WPBA used to do it for ladies events held by their regional tours, but that doesn't even happen anymore. With that in mind, any pool room could theoretically call their weekly 7-ball tournament a "state championship".

Whether you like what the WPA does or not though, they are the governing body to determine World Championships, and this event is not sanctioned as one.

I think what bothers me the most is that Mark and Ozzy are both "movers and shakers" in the pool industry. When they thumb their nose at the established system, it sends a poor message. Sure, you can comment that maybe the pool world needs the movers and shakers to thumb their nose at the established system, but if you are going to do that, then I ask that you do so with a plan in mind for a new system. Not just to promote yourself.

Mike

Cornerman said:
If The BCA Pool League isn’t allowed to call their own sanctioned event that brings together sanctioned league players from around the world to a single locale and tournament as a BCA Pool League “World Championship,” then nobody should be allowed any simple regional title like State Champion or City Champion, sanctioned or not by any outfit.




That would suck. A person in Texas who wins the ACS Texas State Tourney should have the right to be called a State Champion even if it’s not sanctioned with the WPA or the BCA (not BCAPL). A person who wins a non-affiliated, amateur New Hampshire State championship shouldnt be afraid to say he’s a State Champion, regardless of the WPA.

Maybe BCA Pool League International Championship is less annoying?


Freddie <~~~ world champion attendee
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justadub

justadub

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calcuttaman said:
I agree. If I call it "The BCAPL Michigan State Championship" is that alright because I'm not going to get all the best players from MI.

VNEA also says that they are doing a "'18 VNEA World Championships." Are they also in the wrong?
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APA's national tournament is also called "APA World Championships". And APA does have international participants....

This is obviously not an isolated issue with BCApl.

Does WPA have authority over amateur pool, as well as professional pool? What do they do to support amateur pool in exchange for ceding to their "authority"? The only time I hear them being referenced is in regards to professional events.
 
jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
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justadub said:
APA's national tournament is also called "APA World Championships". And APA does have international participants....

This is obviously not an isolated issue with BCApl.

Does WPA have authority over amateur pool, as well as professional pool? What do they do to support amateur pool in exchange for ceding to their "authority"? The only time I hear them being referenced is in regards to professional events.
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I see now where the event is billed as the BCAPL World Championships. By prefacing it this way I find it more accurate and acceptable. The winners of each event are truly BCAPL World Champions as opposed to being a World 9-Ball champion or World Ten Ball champion. Carry on
 
azhousepro

azhousepro

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That is actually a good question. I don't think they do have any authority over amateur events. I would have to ask Ian.

justadub said:
APA's national tournament is also called "APA World Championships". And APA does have international participants....

This is obviously not an isolated issue with BCApl.

Does WPA have authority over amateur pool, as well as professional pool? What do they do to support amateur pool in exchange for ceding to their "authority"? The only time I hear them being referenced is in regards to professional events.
Click to expand...
 
K

KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member
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Tony_in_MD said:
Are there players at the BCA tourney from other countries?

If so, then I can understand how they call it a world championship.

APA does the same thing, as players compete and represent Canada and Japan, that I know of, there may be other countries represented also.
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Players from other states can often play in state championships. That doesn't mean it's now a national event. To paraphrase Jesus...it's better at a gathering to take a lower seat and be asked to move up to a higher position, than to take a higher seat and be asked to move down.

The term "BCA National Champion" has been around for a while now, and carries prestige. No need to overinflate that for the tiny percentage of players that come from other countries. How about the China Open? That's a world championship field if ever there was one...but no, it's the China Open, and there's nothing wrong with that.

A big component of the prestige of an event is the longevity and consistency of the event. Ironic that now that it's a "world" championship, I'm hearing the attendance is down. I would be nice to see the event grow, for sure.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
easy-e

easy-e

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You know how you meet people all the time who claim their uncle “paid their way through college by playing pool”? Just wait until the next generation that brag about how their uncle (or aunt) was a world champion pool player!

For the record, I think it’s cool. I wish I won the tournament, I’d have told anyone who would listen about my world championship!
 
O

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
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JAM said:
I kind of think too much emphasis is being placed on the word "world." Calling it a "world championship" does not mean it is associated with the WPA. Does the WPA have a patent on that word?

Of course, I am definitely NOT a WPA fan, but that's the topic of another thread. I won't get into it here. Those who know me are aware of why I have a strong disdain for the WPA and it's fat hand sticking out at every so-called "world" event to get greased with the WPA tax so the event can be sanctioned by them. Talk about the Emperor's New Clothes! :angry:

If it such a bugaboo, they could use these words instead: international, global, universal.
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Well as they say you pay to play , so like the Olympics or World Cup soccer you pay to have a event if you want their sanction , its not their fault pool in this country cant raise what is half pennies compared to any other sport , its not them that's flawed its the sport and lack of interest and no pro tour , other than the Euro Tour let the BCA keep their World Am title who cares ,,

1
 
mikepage

mikepage

AzB Silver Member
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AzHousePro said:
Freddie, in most states there is no governing body to determine state championships. The WPBA used to do it for ladies events held by their regional tours, but that doesn't even happen anymore. With that in mind, any pool room could theoretically call their weekly 7-ball tournament a "state championship".

Whether you like what the WPA does or not though, they are the governing body to determine World Championships, and this event is not sanctioned as one.

I think what bothers me the most is that Mark and Ozzy are both "movers and shakers" in the pool industry. When they thumb their nose at the established system, it sends a poor message. Sure, you can comment that maybe the pool world needs the movers and shakers to thumb their nose at the established system, but if you are going to do that, then I ask that you do so with a plan in mind for a new system. Not just to promote yourself.

Mike
Click to expand...

Perhaps you have so much history with this issue that you got a button pushed or something and you are not reading what is actually there.

BCAPL is in NO WAY claiming to be deciding a 9-Ball or 8-Ball World Champion. Not even a little.

If there was a tournament for all AZ-Billiard-Forum-Gold-Members, it could be billed as the AZ-Billiard-Forum-Gold-Member-World Championship. This would not step on anybody's toes. It is not grandiose. It is nothing like the thing you are actually objecting to.
 
Nick B

Nick B

This is gonna hurt
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Just taking a page out of their competitors and Charlie W's playbook.

It's marketing and factual all at the same time. BCA "Nationals" have been international for a long time. The Harlem Globetrotters can't beat the worst team in the NBA and the Circus wasn't the "Greatest Show on Earth". Let the leaguers have their fun.
 
azhousepro

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Mike, there is a very good chance that this is the case. It got to me when Charlie did it and it still gets to me.

The term "World Champion" gets tossed around so much in pool, that it doesn't seem to have the prestige that it used to. I saw a post on FB about Mitch beating Thorpe and Shane at Griffs and they referred to him beating two world champions. They aren't.

Saw a column today referring to World Champion Max Eberle. He isn't.

I just want the game to be taken seriously. Name me any other sport out there where a promoter (not just CSI) can just decide their event is a world championship and fans accept it. OK, maybe boxing.

mikepage said:
Perhaps you have so much history with this issue that you got a button pushed or something and you are not reading what is actually there.

BCAPL is in NO WAY claiming to be deciding a 9-Ball or 8-Ball World Champion. Not even a little.

If there was a tournament for all AZ-Billiard-Forum-Gold-Members, it could be billed as the AZ-Billiard-Forum-Gold-Member-World Championship. This would not step on anybody's toes. It is not grandiose. It is nothing like the thing you are actually objecting to.
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mikepage

mikepage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
AzHousePro said:
Mike, there is a very good chance that this is the case. It got to me when Charlie did it and it still gets to me.

The term "World Champion" gets tossed around so much in pool, that it doesn't seem to have the prestige that it used to. I saw a post on FB about Mitch beating Thorpe and Shane at Griffs and they referred to him beating two world champions. They aren't.

Saw a column today referring to World Champion Max Eberle. He isn't.

I just want the game to be taken seriously. Name me any other sport out there where a promoter (not just CSI) can just decide their event is a world championship and fans accept it. OK, maybe boxing.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with you. It is a pet peeve of mine as well. I just don't think this situation here is a case of prestige inflation. This is not the Charlie Williams situation.

I must admit, though, that I find the recognized (WPA) approach to determining a 9-Ball World Champion --single-elimination race-to-11--lacking. But that is a different issue.
 
J

Johnson

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I seen on fb someone was headed to the "BCA World Championship" I think this feeds into the narcissism of the world today and how everyone wants to be a bright shining star on Social Media. Something that annoys me is how many World Series baseball/softball tourneys there are every year for kids and it's the same nonsense. I hardly have 100 fb friends and someone I grew up with had a kid win a "World Series" last week and there's another kid I seen was at another "World Series" this week.

Two years ago a guy I grew up with his daughter's team won a World Series and 3 years before that my nephew's team was runner up without their ace pitcher. Welcome to the Facebook age everyone, the dumbest site ever has carried over into most aspects of our life and most don't even realize it. Just look at how much it's changed azb over the past few years, it's crazy.
 
Bob Jewett

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justadub said:
...
Does WPA have authority over amateur pool, as well as professional pool? What do they do to support amateur pool in exchange for ceding to their "authority"? The only time I hear them being referenced is in regards to professional events.
Click to expand...
The WPA is the "recognized" world governing body for pool. "Recognized" means that it is within the IOC group of recognized international sports organizations. It is not directly a member of a recognized governing body but is instead a member of the WCBS (World Confederation of Billiard Sports) which is directly recognized by the IOC as the world governing body for all cue sports which includes but is not limited to pool, carom, and snooker.

The WPA does not have the resources or staff to control, manage or regulate what happens in individual countries. That is up to the governing body in each individual country. For that matter, the WPA does not deal directly with the governing bodies in each country -- the members of the WPA are the continental confederations.

For North America, the continental confederation is the BCA (not the BCAPL, and by this point in the discussion anyone who confuses the two is just not paying attention:angry:), which is also the governing body for pool in the US.

What happens to pool in the US and how it is governed is the responsibility of the BCA.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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AzHousePro said:
... Saw a column today referring to World Champion Max Eberle. He isn't....
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I suppose one could argue that since the ACU-I is an international organization their champions are "World Collegiate Champions". Max is a former ACU-I champion.

I wouldn't mind if someone made such an argument but if it is accepted I'll need to change my business cards.:p
 
F

fishpool

USSA Board
Mike,

You are absolutely correct. For decades the USA had a monopoly on the pool sport they devised, and winners of various USA Championships were labeled as "World Champions" by USA promoters. The rest of the world was new to the sport and did not approve of such mislabeling, and over the past twenty years, Europe and Asia has surpassed North America as pool powers. The WPA was formed in the late '80s with the involvement of all the continents, and they are tied in to the organization tree under the International Olympic Committee (IOC). If a WC event is not sanctioned by the world-governing body for the sport - the WPA - it is not a WC. Apparently some USA-based promoters still find it cute to play fast and loose with the term "World Champion." The rest of the world that has passed N. America in skill level has no problem in recognizing WPA-sanctioned WC events as the true WCs. I really wish some USA promoters would show more respect for the term "World Championship."
 
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