Annual Growth Rings(best #)

rings

JLR said:

Most shaft material being resold by cuemakers or suppliers seem to have low numbers of rings (avg 12 to 18 per inch). Is this because the best is held back for their own use or select customers? Is 25 to 35 rings per inch more prized than 12 to 18? Is their a magic # of rings the best cue makers aim for? I am grateful that cuemakers offer components for sale to enthusiasts, I'm just wondering if we could beg for even better material. Thank you in advance for the extraordinary commentary!

Click to expand...

I been here a long time, and have "NEVER" seen over 26 rings, per inch?

Dowels with many rings,develop a natural twist within in it's self.To much pressure, I would think causes this twist. When cut to a dowel or shaft, stress being released, comes into play. They twist and turn more than the ones with 15 to 18 rings.

A rule of thumb is the more rings the dencer the material[harder]. This is true about 70% of the time. I have seen 16 to 20, that was just as hard and dence.

I have seen 20 rings that i would not use, and seen 12 that i would use....Grain plays a bigger part than rings..........
I would say 15 is about average...

I sell shaft woods to several cuemakers around the globe, I use the same stuff. I don't cheat by keeping the "GOOD STUFF" just for me. Don't do business, that way. What I sell, "i use". And I might add it's good stuff...........What's good for you is good for me...

blud

Annual Growth Rings(best #) or Spelling 101 and Misinformation

blud said:

I been here a long time, and have "NEVER" seen over 26 rings, per inch?

Dowels with many rings,develop a natural twist within in it's self.To much pressure, I would think causes this twist. When cut to a dowel or shaft, stress being released, comes into play. They twist and turn more than the ones with 15 to 18 rings.

A rule of thumb is the more rings the dencer the material[harder]. This is true about 70% of the time. I have seen 16 to 20, that was just as hard and dence.

I have seen 20 rings that i would not use, and seen 12 that i would use....Grain plays a bigger part than rings..........
I would say 15 is about average...

I sell shaft woods to several cuemakers around the globe, I use the same stuff. I don't cheat by keeping the "GOOD STUFF" just for me. Don't do business, that way. What I sell, "i use". And I might add it's good stuff...........What's good for you is good for me...

blud

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Leonard:

I've been reading your posts for months now and I just have to speak up. Your spelling is atrocious (exceptionally bad). Use a spell checker. Specifically:

"natural twist within in it's self"

This statement reads: natural twist within in it is self. 'It is' (abbreviated it's) can be abbreviated to it's but in your case 'it's' was not properly used. It should have just been 'its' but when followed by the word 'self' should have read 'itself'. So what you meant to say was a 'natural twist within itself'.

"dencer"
The word dencer is correctly spelled dense or denser.

Now to point something out in your statement:
"Dowels with many rings,develop a natural twist within in it's self.To much pressure, I would think causes this twist. When cut to a dowel or shaft, stress being released, comes into play. They twist and turn more than the ones with 15 to 18 rings."

This is correct and incorrect. Improperly dried wood which would apply to your scenario, no matter how many or few growth rings can "twist". Properly dried wood will not "twist" regardless of growth rings; few or many. That "pressure" you speak of is not present in properly dried maple as the "pressure" is allowed to release itself (not it's self) during proper kiln drying. So, the wood you are talking about that "twists" was in all probability not dried properly. But I bet you already knew that.

Another thing I would like to point out is your statement:
"Grain plays a bigger part than rings.........."

I don't know about your wood but growth rings and grain are one and the same. The rings produce the grain running up and down the shaft. Take a look at your shafts as the growth rings produce the grain pattern. High concentration of growth rings will produce tighter grain. Then if it's (or it is) straight, you have a good shaft. But I bet you already knew that.

Thank you for listening and I will occasionally post when I see misinformation or when anyone wants and unbiased opinion. We are not posting for our own enlightened self interest.

Yours in cueology...

The Cue Mayor

I don't know about the rest of the readers of this thread but I perfectly understood everything Blud had to say. He long ago admitted to shortcomings in his spelling but he has continued to provide excellent info to this entire board. Go back on your Prozac or whatever you take so you can loosen up and stop being so anal. Your other points that dealt with cuemaking are welcomed and informative. Keep your posts to those are that deal exclusively with cuemaking and you probably will not wear out your welcome.

There is a difference between growth rings and grain. Here is how: Growth rings just tell you how many grain lines per inch. Grain includes how straight that grain runs. I get a lot of wood with 25 to 30 growth rings, and those tend to not be as straight grained as many of the 10 growth rings shafts are. Also the tight grained wood is more likely to have sugar lines or mineral than loose grained shafts. But to answer the original question of what is best. I feel the more lines the better as long as the grain is reasonably straight. As far as picking out the best, Yes I do and No I don't. If you buy shaft dowels from me you will get some of the very best and some of the worse. It will be mixed grade. If you buy tapered shaft blanks from me, you will not get a 30 grain line shaft with zero sugar and near perfect grain. I might get one out of 200 like that so I grab it for my high end cues. But if you buy dowels, you will once in a while find a shaft like that once you turn the dowels down. I hope this clarifies things.
Chris
www.internationalcuemakers.com
www.cuesmith.com

JLR said:

Most shaft material being resold by cuemakers or suppliers seem to have low numbers of rings (avg 12 to 18 per inch). Is this because the best is held back for their own use or select customers? Is 25 to 35 rings per inch more prized than 12 to 18? Is their a magic # of rings the best cue makers aim for? I am grateful that cuemakers offer components for sale to enthusiasts, I'm just wondering if we could beg for even better material. Thank you in advance for the extraordinary commentary!

Click to expand...

If you're particular about shaftwood, it would be best if you could pick out boards from a lumberyard. You could try checking out your local lumberyard and ask them if you could pick out boards. To see the rings, check the end grain for ring density and you could check the sides for straightness. For this you need to bring a planer.

I don't mind if Blud uses correct spelling or not.
for a first time poster those are pretty bold statements and to think that it's directed to the person responsible for creating this forum

CueMayor said:

Leonard:

I've been reading your posts for months now and I just have to speak up. Your spelling is atrocious (exceptionally bad). Use a spell checker. Specifically:

"natural twist within in it's self"

This statement reads: natural twist within in it is self. 'It is' (abbreviated it's) can be abbreviated to it's but in your case 'it's' was not properly used. It should have just been 'its' but when followed by the word 'self' should have read 'itself'. So what you meant to say was a 'natural twist within itself'.

"dencer"
The word dencer is correctly spelled dense or denser.

Now to point something out in your statement:
"Dowels with many rings,develop a natural twist within in it's self.To much pressure, I would think causes this twist. When cut to a dowel or shaft, stress being released, comes into play. They twist and turn more than the ones with 15 to 18 rings."

This is correct and incorrect. Improperly dried wood which would apply to your scenario, no matter how many or few growth rings can "twist". Properly dried wood will not "twist" regardless of growth rings; few or many. That "pressure" you speak of is not present in properly dried maple as the "pressure" is allowed to release itself (not it's self) during proper kiln drying. So, the wood you are talking about that "twists" was in all probability not dried properly. But I bet you already knew that.

Another thing I would like to point out is your statement:
"Grain plays a bigger part than rings.........."

I don't know about your wood but growth rings and grain are one and the same. The rings produce the grain running up and down the shaft. Take a look at your shafts as the growth rings produce the grain pattern. High concentration of growth rings will produce tighter grain. Then if it's (or it is) straight, you have a good shaft. But I bet you already knew that.

Thank you for listening and I will occasionally post when I see misinformation or when anyone wants and unbiased opinion. We are not posting for our own enlightened self interest.

Yours in cueology...

The Cue Mayor

Click to expand...

Oh MY~! I hope you don't think we care one bit about Leonard's spelling.......... Your post is full of self interest..........the forum is "ask the cuemaker"...........I'm sure we would all like to know how you make your cues. Which type of joint do you prefer?....and why? what kind of material for ferrule's......playing and jump break? How do you finish your cue's.?......How do you make sure the shaftwood is going to stay straight.? What kind of wood has the best hit.?......How do you make sure the whole cue ligns up straight.?

I have a hunch Pogiboy and Cue Mayor are the same person.

cueman said:

There is a difference between growth rings and grain. Here is how: Growth rings just tell you how many grain lines per inch. Grain includes how straight that grain runs. I get a lot of wood with 25 to 30 growth rings, and those tend to not be as straight grained as many of the 10 growth rings shafts are. Also the tight grained wood is more likely to have sugar lines or mineral than loose grained shafts. But to answer the original question of what is best. I feel the more lines the better as long as the grain is reasonably straight. As far as picking out the best, Yes I do and No I don't. If you buy shaft dowels from me you will get some of the very best and some of the worse. It will be mixed grade. If you buy tapered shaft blanks from me, you will not get a 30 grain line shaft with zero sugar and near perfect grain. I might get one out of 200 like that so I grab it for my high end cues. But if you buy dowels, you will once in a while find a shaft like that once you turn the dowels down. I hope this clarifies things.
Chris
www.internationalcuemakers.com
www.cuesmith.com

Click to expand...

Now that's an interesting statement:
"I get a lot of wood with 25 to 30 growth rings, and those tend to not be as straight grained as many of the 10 growth rings shafts are."

Contrary to your statement, I find the complete opposite to be true with the maple I've been getting. The tighter grained wood tends to be straighter than the looser grain. The looser grained wood tends to have more wiggle in the grain. I guess this all has to do with the supplier and where the wood was harvested.

The Cue Mayor

CueMayor said:

Now that's an interesting statement:
"I get a lot of wood with 25 to 30 growth rings, and those tend to not be as straight grained as many of the 10 growth rings shafts are."

Contrary to your statement, I find the complete opposite to be true with the maple I've been getting. The tighter grained wood tends to be straighter than the looser grain. The looser grained wood tends to have more wiggle in the grain. I guess this all has to do with the supplier and where the wood was harvested.

The Cue Mayor

Click to expand...

I appreciate your opinion concerning wood but would like to see some pictures of your product in your website or in a dealer's website. Every cuemaker in this forum has a real name behind the un-name and/or a face behind a name. So, will it be too much to ask for yours? It sure will be nice to know that the "unbiased" information that we are expected to accept is backed by a trust-worthy name and face.


pssst Joey..business must still be real slow, even with 3.......

Yep.. the last thing we need here are the spell check police. I read Blud's post and it did not bother me at all. Give Blud a break, he was probebly very tired when he posted. We all make spelling errors, the only one I know that dosn't is my english teacher buddy.

bandido said:

I appreciate your opinion concerning wood but would like to see some pictures of your product in your website or in a dealer's website. Every cuemaker in this forum has a real name behind the un-name and/or a face behind a name. So, will it be too much to ask for yours? It sure will be nice to know that the "unbiased" information that we are expected to accept is backed by a trust-worthy name and face.


pssst Joey..business must still be real slow, even with 3.......

Click to expand...

This is correct and incorrect. Improperly dried wood which would apply to your scenario, no matter how many or few growth rings can "twist". Properly dried wood will not "twist" regardless of growth rings; few or many. That "pressure" you speak of is not present in properly dried maple as the "pressure" is allowed to release itself (not it's self) during proper kiln drying. So, the wood you are talking about that "twists" was in all probability not dried properly. But I bet you already knew that.

Click to expand...

If you have any dowels with equal tightness of grains on both sides of the center and is "properly kilned" and guaranteed not to move, I'll buy some.
Fact is, wood is wood. You take layers off the dowel, the side with the really tight grains might push off the side with the not as tight grains.

JLR,

It's BLUDWORTH not Bloodworth

you

CueMayor said:

Leonard:

I've been reading your posts for months now and I just have to speak up. Your spelling is atrocious (exceptionally bad). Use a spell checker. Specifically:

"natural twist within in it's self"

This statement reads: natural twist within in it is self. 'It is' (abbreviated it's) can be abbreviated to it's but in your case 'it's' was not properly used. It should have just been 'its' but when followed by the word 'self' should have read 'itself'. So what you meant to say was a 'natural twist within itself'.

"dencer"
The word dencer is correctly spelled dense or denser.

Now to point something out in your statement:
"Dowels with many rings,develop a natural twist within in it's self.To much pressure, I would think causes this twist. When cut to a dowel or shaft, stress being released, comes into play. They twist and turn more than the ones with 15 to 18 rings."

This is correct and incorrect. Improperly dried wood which would apply to your scenario, no matter how many or few growth rings can "twist". Properly dried wood will not "twist" regardless of growth rings; few or many. That "pressure" you speak of is not present in properly dried maple as the "pressure" is allowed to release itself (not it's self) during proper kiln drying. So, the wood you are talking about that "twists" was in all probability not dried properly. But I bet you already knew that.

Another thing I would like to point out is your statement:
"Grain plays a bigger part than rings.........."

I don't know about your wood but growth rings and grain are one and the same. The rings produce the grain running up and down the shaft. Take a look at your shafts as the growth rings produce the grain pattern. High concentration of growth rings will produce tighter grain. Then if it's (or it is) straight, you have a good shaft. But I bet you already knew that.

Thank you for listening and I will occasionally post when I see misinformation or when anyone wants and unbiased opinion. We are not posting for our own enlightened self interest.

Yours in cueology...

The Cue Mayor

Click to expand...

I know not who the heck you are? [sounds like larry's back, guys]..

So here goes,

Dear Joe College, Knocker, or self appointed mayor of cues. PLEASE!

I could care less who you are.. If you don't like what I've written or the way I, spell, don't read my writtings..............Even for someone with an education should know that.

I do the best I can, with or without your knocking me.

Misinformation, not so. I do know about woods....and what happens to the shaft wood, with many or not so many rings, and or grain run off.

We [the real cuemakers] are here to help. Many have good educations, I do not, but I do know what I'm talking about.

BTW, instead of knocking me, why don't you just read and learn from what's been written, good or bad spelling? That's the kind of education you need, hands on.

Many others apperciate my writtings, good or bad spelling. They show me respect about my knowlege of cues, and are willing to over look my poor spelling, within my writtings.


For your information sir, growth rings and grain start out to be the same, however when the growth ring disaperas down the shaft, [ grain run out], then they are refered to as grain. DUH! Cuemakers refer to grain as the side of the shaft, [ open grain or tight grain], surely not, growth rings.....

Properly dried wood or not, it can twist and turn, as stated.

Of course we [me and you] could have a cue-build-off. You can bet whatever pal...[ain't gonna be cheap either].Cash only.....be sure and bring plenty of it.

to the rest of my good friends, cuemakers and fans,
rock on,
blud

Thanks Kind Sir.

Gerald said:

I don't know about the rest of the readers of this thread but I perfectly understood everything Blud had to say. He long ago admitted to shortcomings in his spelling but he has continued to provide excellent info to this entire board. Go back on your Prozac or whatever you take so you can loosen up and stop being so anal. Your other points that dealt with cuemaking are welcomed and informative. Keep your posts to those are that deal exclusively with cuemaking and you probably will not wear out your welcome.

Click to expand...

Hi, Gerald,

Some just got to drag me down, no matter what is written.
Many thanks for your support.
blud

Keep up the info Blud.
As far as spelling, in honor of you I say
Sometimes we no right good much eather.