The Death Grip

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
Almost every pool instructional video, as well as snooker, warns us of the horror of the "death grip". Now, the word "death grip'" is somewhat open to interpretation, but to me it signifies a grip where the hand is tightened well beyond the "holding a baby bird without hurting it" grip pressure. I mean, I'm not crushing golf balls with my fist like Oddjob, but if a sparrow is in my hand, those ribs are not going to hold up so well...Why is this so detrimental? To be honest, I don't know? I can see in some of the more delicate situations, especially those in games like straight rail, balkline and maybe sometimes in one pocket, where you are barely tapping the balls, that a tight grip may diminish the control slightly. But that's not even 5% of our shots, not even 1%...What about the rest?

A relatively tigth grip, for me, seems to tighten up the wrist, especially in the "side-to-side" direction. While it does slightly kill the wrist action, it doesn't completely ruin it, and there is plenty room to help with it, as long as you're not trying to crush your cue with your hands.

What else? A tight grip avoids "cheating" with your alignment. Your hand is in a fixed position and cannot really allow you to hold the cue seemingly on line and only to then move to the side when the final stroke is made, because the arm is not properly in line.

A tight grip keeps things constant, for those of us who are slightly nervous and tend to clench up when the pressure is on. If you're allready tight in the hand, there is nowhere to go wrong.

A tight grip allows me to slam the balls without worry about the cue flying off to the side or up. It allows me to put very slight downwards pressure on rail shots, making it nearly impossible to miscue, even with power shots.

A lot has been said about the accuracy of a relaxed arm, how it helps feel etc..That's great and all, but personally when I've tried it, I cannot get those benefits. The tighter grip is just as accurate as a lose grip, and more importantly it stays the same. The more things stay the same, the more I like it.

I don't do the textbook stuff, anymore. I'm making my own textbook, to suit my needs. I recommend you try it some time. The textbook will always be there, if you want to go back. That textbook, btw, seems to be written largely by Billiards players. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm not trying to do a Chuck Nurse, or Rail Nurse, when I'm playing pool....
 
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Get_A_Grip

Truth Will Set You Free
Silver Member
It's funny, just today I noticed that the best thing for me is to do all of my pre-shot stroking with a tight grip, but if needed for certain shots where I want more cueball action, to relax the grip on my final stroke. Otherwise, I'm finding that keeping a tighter grip the entire time is really improving my shot making accuracy.


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 

dbgordie

Thread Killer!!
Silver Member
I also use a firmer grip. If I loosen up too much I lose accuracy.

I think the loose grip idea is the tried and true method for most people. It seems similar to learning to shoot a pistol. If you squeeze too tight it will make you shake and that will make you less accurate. I think it's like Goldilocks and the Three Bears. Some like it soft(loose), some like it hard(tight), some like it just right(in between):thumbup:.

To each their own.

I know that if I don't want a lot of action after the CB contacts the OB, a firmer grip helps. If I want more action the lighter grip makes that happen easier.

Just my observations.
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's funny, just today I noticed that the best thing for me is to do all of my pre-shot stroking with a tight grip, but if needed for certain shots where I want more cueball action, to relax the grip on my final stroke. Otherwise, I'm finding that keeping a tighter grip the entire time is really improving my shot making accuracy. Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
I agree.
The firmer grip helps my accuracy more especially on the shots where the cue ball is frozen on the rail. It prevents any wrist swerve.
I see no decrease in cue ball action using it.
Of course I may not use any English in a hundred shots if they're laying good. And when I do it's only a tip's worth. Don't need the stuff....follow and draw get the job done pretty darn good.:thumbup:
 

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have experimented with a lot of different grips.

I hold the cue so that I can feel the butt of the cue against the palm of my hand (wrist straight with forearm) and my fingers. The hold is not tight but firm (just a little firm), this holding (for me) offers the best opportunity to feel the cue ball thru the cue. I call these pressure points in my grip hand.

For stroke shots the holding pressure remains about the same, all I do is use a longer back swing and push the cue ball a little harder. Now on really touchy shots I find that I'm only holding the cue with the pads of my index finger and thumb, it gives me the best opportunity to really feel the cue ball.

For me, I don't like holding the cue lightly.

John :)
 
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Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have experimented with a lot of different grips.
I hold the cue so that I can feel the butt of the cue against the palm of my hand (wrist straight with forearm) and my fingers. The hold is not tight but firm (just a little firm), this holding (for me) offers the best opportunity to feel the cue ball thru the cue. I call these pressure points in my grip hand.
For stroke shots the holding pressure remains about the same, all I do is use a longer back swing and push the cue ball a little harder. Now on really touchy shots I find that I'm only holding the cue with the pads of my index finger and thumb, it gives me the best opportunity to really feel the cue ball.
For me, I don't like holding the cue lightly.
John :)
I was at a Ray Martin clinic once and he advocated tightening the grip significantly when the cueball was frozen to the rail. And shortening up the backswing.
Works for me.:thumbup:
 

Ken_4fun

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I had a death grip, and one of the folks I tried to learn from showed me how to lose it easily and quickly.

She had me keep the pool chalk cube in the hand I was holding the handle. It made it nearly impossible to death grip the cue.

She is a fine player and my friend....Christy Dickerson. Anyone looking for someone to help a player she taught me many things about playing I still use today.

Ken
 

fasted71465

Fast Ed
Silver Member
Tightening your grip or clinching up during your final stroke is the real problem. If your grip is consistent you should not worry about it.
 

demartini rocks

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i only tighten the grip for these 2 types of shots:
1. to slow down the cue ball when the object ball is at an angle.
2. cut shots at real sharp angles.
 

pinkspider

Crap user name, I know.
Silver Member
I think death grip means different things to different people. But I don’t think there’s anything wrong in holding the cue firmly and loosening up only as much as necessary depending on the requirements of the shot.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Almost every pool instructional video, as well as snooker, warns us of the horror of the "death grip". Now, the word "death grip'" is somewhat open to interpretation, but to me it signifies a grip where the hand is tightened well beyond the "holding a baby bird without hurting it" grip pressure. I mean, I'm not crushing golf balls with my fist like Oddjob, but if a sparrow is in my hand, those ribs are not going to hold up so well...Why is this so detrimental? To be honest, I don't know? I can see in some of the more delicate situations, especially those in games like straight rail, balkline and maybe sometimes in one pocket, where you are barely tapping the balls, that a tight grip may diminish the control slightly. But that's not even 5% of our shots, not even 1%...What about the rest?

A relatively tigth grip, for me, seems to tighten up the wrist, especially in the "side-to-side" direction. While it does slightly kill the wrist action, it doesn't completely ruin it, and there is plenty room to help with it, as long as you're not trying to crush your cue with your hands.

What else? A tight grip avoids "cheating" with your alignment. Your hand is in a fixed position and cannot really allow you to hold the cue seemingly on line and only to then move to the side when the final stroke is made, because the arm is not properly in line.

A tight grip keeps things constant, for those of us who are slightly nervous and tend to clench up when the pressure is on. If you're allready tight in the hand, there is nowhere to go wrong.

A tight grip allows me to slam the balls without worry about the cue flying off to the side or up. It allows me to put very slight downwards pressure on rail shots, making it nearly impossible to miscue, even with power shots.

A lot has been said about the accuracy of a relaxed arm, how it helps feel etc..That's great and all, but personally when I've tried it, I cannot get those benefits. The tighter grip is just as accurate as a lose grip, and more importantly it stays the same. The more things stay the same, the more I like it.

I don't do the textbook stuff, anymore. I'm making my own textbook, to suit my needs. I recommend you try it some time. The textbook will always be there, if you want to go back. That textbook, btw, seems to be written largely by Billiards players. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm not trying to do a Chuck Nurse, or Rail Nurse, when I'm playing pool....

I teach two strengths of grip on a scale of 1 to 10--some players do beautifully with a 1 or less, others do very well with a 3 to 4 grip--these players particularly squeeze when nervous, so by giving them permission to start a tournament with a 3 to 4 grip...
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Almost every pool instructional video, as well as snooker, warns us of the horror of the "death grip". Now, the word "death grip'" is somewhat open to interpretation, but to me it signifies a grip where the hand is tightened well beyond the "holding a baby bird without hurting it" grip pressure. I mean, I'm not crushing golf balls with my fist like Oddjob, but if a sparrow is in my hand, those ribs are not going to hold up so well...Why is this so detrimental? To be honest, I don't know? I can see in some of the more delicate situations, especially those in games like straight rail, balkline and maybe sometimes in one pocket, where you are barely tapping the balls, that a tight grip may diminish the control slightly. But that's not even 5% of our shots, not even 1%...What about the rest?

A relatively tigth grip, for me, seems to tighten up the wrist, especially in the "side-to-side" direction. While it does slightly kill the wrist action, it doesn't completely ruin it, and there is plenty room to help with it, as long as you're not trying to crush your cue with your hands.

What else? A tight grip avoids "cheating" with your alignment. Your hand is in a fixed position and cannot really allow you to hold the cue seemingly on line and only to then move to the side when the final stroke is made, because the arm is not properly in line.

A tight grip keeps things constant, for those of us who are slightly nervous and tend to clench up when the pressure is on. If you're allready tight in the hand, there is nowhere to go wrong.

A tight grip allows me to slam the balls without worry about the cue flying off to the side or up. It allows me to put very slight downwards pressure on rail shots, making it nearly impossible to miscue, even with power shots.

A lot has been said about the accuracy of a relaxed arm, how it helps feel etc..That's great and all, but personally when I've tried it, I cannot get those benefits. The tighter grip is just as accurate as a lose grip, and more importantly it stays the same. The more things stay the same, the more I like it.

I don't do the textbook stuff, anymore. I'm making my own textbook, to suit my needs. I recommend you try it some time. The textbook will always be there, if you want to go back. That textbook, btw, seems to be written largely by Billiards players. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm not trying to do a Chuck Nurse, or Rail Nurse, when I'm playing pool....


You can make just about any technique "work."

But it's like anything else: the quality will vary. IOWs, you might be able to do certain things just fine with a death grip but you will most certainly lose out on other qualities you'd want to be able to consistently produce with a good stroke that are just as important, or even more so.

A "good" stroke has many components to it. Ferinstance, it has to be accurate; it has to allow you to successfully apply english; it needs to work on the table, off the rail, and jacked up; it must work at slow and high speed; you need to be able to apply follow, draw, combined with english; it must provide you with precise speed control; and it must be consistent.

Some techniques will give you Two Buck Chuck. It's wine and it's quaffable. But other techniques will give you Opus 1 and will be far more enjoyable.

Lou Figueroa
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Almost every pool instructional video, as well as snooker, warns us of the horror of the "death grip". Now, the word "death grip'" is somewhat open to interpretation, but to me it signifies a grip where the hand is tightened well beyond the "holding a baby bird without hurting it" grip pressure. I mean, I'm not crushing golf balls with my fist like Oddjob, but if a sparrow is in my hand, those ribs are not going to hold up so well...Why is this so detrimental? To be honest, I don't know? I can see in some of the more delicate situations, especially those in games like straight rail, balkline and maybe sometimes in one pocket, where you are barely tapping the balls, that a tight grip may diminish the control slightly. But that's not even 5% of our shots, not even 1%...What about the rest?

A relatively tigth grip, for me, seems to tighten up the wrist, especially in the "side-to-side" direction. While it does slightly kill the wrist action, it doesn't completely ruin it, and there is plenty room to help with it, as long as you're not trying to crush your cue with your hands.

What else? A tight grip avoids "cheating" with your alignment. Your hand is in a fixed position and cannot really allow you to hold the cue seemingly on line and only to then move to the side when the final stroke is made, because the arm is not properly in line.

A tight grip keeps things constant, for those of us who are slightly nervous and tend to clench up when the pressure is on. If you're allready tight in the hand, there is nowhere to go wrong.

A tight grip allows me to slam the balls without worry about the cue flying off to the side or up. It allows me to put very slight downwards pressure on rail shots, making it nearly impossible to miscue, even with power shots.

A lot has been said about the accuracy of a relaxed arm, how it helps feel etc..That's great and all, but personally when I've tried it, I cannot get those benefits. The tighter grip is just as accurate as a lose grip, and more importantly it stays the same. The more things stay the same, the more I like it.

I don't do the textbook stuff, anymore. I'm making my own textbook, to suit my needs. I recommend you try it some time. The textbook will always be there, if you want to go back. That textbook, btw, seems to be written largely by Billiards players. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm not trying to do a Chuck Nurse, or Rail Nurse, when I'm playing pool....

I've seen a lot of 14.1 players shoot with a tight grip. I've also noticed that their style of play is to use shorter strokes and that they prefer to punch the ball rather than roll it.

If you tell a rotation player to tighten his grip, you're taking away 90 percent of his potential.That's why so many 14.1 players couldn't make the transition to 9 Ball back in the early 80's when tournaments started changing from 14.1 to 9 Ball. Very few players can successfully play rotation games that way. Allen Hopkins is one of the few exceptions who was able to make the transition, but if you watch him play, he plays very close position and stays away from long shots as much as possible.
 
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Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've seen a lot of 14.1 players shoot with a tight grip. I've also noticed that their style of play is to use shorter strokes and that they prefer to punch the ball rather than roll it.

If you tell a rotation player to tighten his grip, you're taking away 90 percent of his potential.That's why so many 14.1 players couldn't make the transition to 9 Ball back in the early 80's when tournaments started changing from 14.1 to 9 Ball. Very few players can successfully play rotation games that way. Allen Hopkins is one of the few exceptions who was able to make the transition, but if you watch him play, he plays very close position and stays away from long shots as much as possible.
How do you arrive at this 90% figure?
Are there any accurate, precise, studies to show that it is taking away 90% of his/her potential? Or is that merely a value judgment?
(I am skeptical about that percentage, obviously.)
:shrug:
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I teach two strengths of grip on a scale of 1 to 10--some players do beautifully with a 1 or less, others do very well with a 3 to 4 grip--these players particularly squeeze when nervous, so by giving them permission to start a tournament with a 3 to 4 grip...
That sounds like a reasonable approach instead of declaring an 'absolute'.
It has to be personal and tested out personally, in my opinion.
Since I am a nervous wreck and scared of everyone I play, I probably start out and finish with about a 5 on that scale of 1-10. If cueball is frozen to the rail, the tightness goes up to 8.
You make good sense with this.
:thumbup:
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How do you arrive at this 90% figure?
Are there any accurate, precise, studies to show that it is taking away 90% of his/her potential? Or is that merely a value judgment?
(I am skeptical about that percentage, obviously.)
:shrug:

My opinion only. Comes with quite a few years of playing, experimenting, observing, and talking with players.
 
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