Ronnie played everywhere against anyone. There may have been situations where RA went into tough games on the road and lost to very good players but I was around Los Angeles all my life and watched RA play and I agree with Jay that RA was the best of his time. I never saw any player come to Los Angeles and play RA even up, no one. If anyone wanted to play him even up they could have won two fortunes. The sky would have been the limit. From the time period of around 1964 to 1980 or so he had the game wired. I saw him give Jersey Red 8/7 9/7 and just rob him and that goes for the top players of that ERA including but not limited to Ed Kelly, Marvin Henderson, Tacoma Whitey but no one ventured to California to gamble with him. I wonder why?
Scott Frost vs Ronnie Allen in his prime
- Thread starter nineballsafety8
- Start date
Maybe the same reason NO ONE beat Artie B. from Chicago, from 1970-1985, that includes ALL the top players in the country, except RA! Artie and RA agreed upon a game, (11/8 and RA gets all the breaks!) RA couldn't get staked, and this was on NEUTRAL territory, Milwaukee, WI.
IMHO, I think RA was way better known for being a 'Tournament' player than 'Money' player! Most of the gambling RA did playing one hole were, 'Gaff' games playing one pocket!
BTW, the way they arrived at this game was, and is, documented by YOUR post, RA played and beat Jersey Red, 8/7,9/7!
Artie played and beat Red giving Artie 10/8 and Red got ALL the breaks! Thus the game, 11/8 and RA gets ALL the breaks!
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terryerdman
Registered
In the early 70's RA and Richie Florence came to Tacoma to play Whitey Michaels. It was my first time seeing RA play and work a game. Long story short, he played Richie first and they warmed up playing straight pool to 100 for small cash. Richie broke and Whitey ran 100 and out and then they played some 9 ball which Whitey won, and I bet on Whitey as I thought it was supposed to be a flop so the match for big money could take place with RA. Maybe I was right and maybe just lucky? So Whitey had shimmed pockets and a dead end rail spot that Ronnie found out about on a shot to his pocket. The banter was epic. Anyway Whitey wins about 8K the first night and 2 backers from Chicago were flown in for to back RA the next night and RA takes down about 20K. Like Jay said watching Ronnie clear all the balls from Whitey's pocket with one kick shot and they migrate to Ronnie's hole was something to behold. Why would RA want to play a tough match in enemy territory (Chicago) when he could make easier money from guys like Whitey (who was no slouch). He made a living playing for the cash and he did it for many years and I am glad to have been able to witness top level 1 hole for real money on the up and up.! I have never seen Scott play in person or Efren but they are all world class in their prime. Who is better, Secretariat or Seabiscut?
I wish there were some way anyone could bring up the extensive travels and gambling of RA, (and other's) without you bringing up Artie..a guy who rarely traveled anywhere, and (as he admitted himself) avoided 'tough action' like the plague ?....Don't you see a little difference between RA giving Red 8/7-9/7, and Red giving Artie 10/8 ???...Your 1P [sic] 'knowledge' comes shining through again!..Won't you ever give up..or do you just enjoy being insulted ? (see post #68, for example.. http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5066533&postcount=68
...just one of hundreds, throughout these forums)
SJD
PS..It is simply amazing, how you consistantly call, the most knowledgable 1P mind's on these forums, liar's ! (or worse)
.....OK, its all yours now..You (or your brother Don) can tell me how 'little' I know !
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I wish there were some way anyone could bring up the extensive travels and gambling of RA, (and other's) without you bringing up Artie..a guy who rarely traveled anywhere, and (as he admitted himself) avoided 'tough action' like the plague ?....Don't you see a little difference between RA giving Red 8/7-9/7, and Red giving Artie 10/8 ???...Your 1P [sic] 'knowledge' comes shining through again!..Won't you ever give up..or do you just enjoy being insulted ? (see post #68, for example.. http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5066533&postcount=68
...just one of hundreds, throughout these forums)
SJD
PS..It is simply amazing, how you consistantly call, the most knowledgable 1P mind's on these forums, liar's ! (or worse)
What I DO know about YOU is, YOU were one of the BEST suckers around to get down, according to ALL accounts by the 'Smart' money players!
BTW, if you're going to 'Quote' MY posts, at least have the courage to include the entire post!
Maybe the same reason NO ONE beat Artie B. from Chicago, from 1970-1985, that includes ALL the top players in the country, except RA! Artie and RA agreed upon a game, (11/8 and RA gets all the breaks!) RA couldn't get staked, and this was on NEUTRAL territory, Milwaukee, WI.
IMHO, I think RA was way better known for being a 'Tournament' player than 'Money' player! Most of the gambling RA did playing one hole were, 'Gaff' games playing one pocket!
BTW, the way they arrived at this game was, and is, documented by YOUR post, RA played and beat Jersey Red, 8/7,9/7!
Artie played and beat Red giving Artie 10/8 and Red got ALL the breaks! Thus the game, 11/8 and RA gets ALL the breaks!
The only reason I eliminate much of your quotes, is common courtesy to the other forum members !..NO ONE should have to endure your meaningless, repetitive rhetoric, more than once..! :sorry:
PS..I will admit, it must take raw 'courage', for you to continually post such complete drivel, full of falsehoods !.. I am too bored, to link more examples, of people commenting on your [sic] gross incompetence !..It just ain't worth my time !
.. Sayanora Mr. 3?? !
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The only reason I eliminate much of your quotes, is common courtesy to the other forum members !..NO ONE should have to endure your meaningless, repetitive rhetoric, more than once..! :sorry:
PS..I will admit, it must take raw 'courage', for you to continually post such complete drivel, full of falsehoods !.. I am too bored, to link more examples, of people commenting on your [sic] gross incompetence !..It just ain't worth my time !
You remind me of George Plimpton, when he went to try out for the, 'Detroit Lions!'
The title of his documentary was, 'Paper Tiger,' that's who you'll be known as in the annals of the Billiard World! Like many have said, 'Just a footnote,' on an obscure page somewhere!
I'll go with whatever Jay says. I mean, even if it RA wasn't better than Efren, he must have been close enough for Jay to make such a bold statement that Ronnie was better. If that's the case, the there's the answer. Most of us who have seen Efren and Scott play agree that Efren's best was better than Scott's best. Therefore, Ronnie's peak must have been higher than Scott's.
Now, who and why did Artie's name come up???
Freddie <~~~ loves the bitterness
Now, who and why did Artie's name come up???
Freddie <~~~ loves the bitterness
I mentioned Artie, knowing him and being good friends for over 50 years and have watched and been in with him on many scores against TOP players playing 1 hole!
IMHO, RA, Bugs and Artie were the TOP 3 one pocket players of that era!
If He played each of them an 'Ahead' race, Artie would win hands downs!
This is a forum for ALL to express their opinions on cue game threads, I have given mine!
But, more importantly, my opinion is NOT thru hearsay, but by actually being right there in the mix of MANY of Artie's matches!
Here's a reason why I brought Artie into the mix, along with some other posts.
I hope I've answered your questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Huey View Post
Ronnie played everywhere against anyone. There may have been situations where RA went into tough games on the road and lost to very good players but I was around Los Angeles all my life and watched RA play and I agree with Jay that RA was the best of his time. I never saw any player come to Los Angeles and play RA even up, no one. If anyone wanted to play him even up they could have won two fortunes. The sky would have been the limit. From the time period of around 1964 to 1980 or so he had the game wired. I saw him give Jersey Red 8/7 9/7 and just rob him and that goes for the top players of that ERA including but not limited to Ed Kelly, Marvin Henderson, Tacoma Whitey but no one ventured to California to gamble with him. I wonder why?
Maybe the same reason NO ONE beat Artie B. from Chicago, from 1970-1985, that includes ALL the top players in the country, except RA! Artie and RA agreed upon a game, (11/8 and RA gets all the breaks!) RA couldn't get staked, and this was on NEUTRAL territory, Milwaukee, WI.
IMHO, I think RA was way better known for being a 'Tournament' player than 'Money' player! Most of the gambling RA did playing one hole were, 'Gaff' games playing one pocket!
BTW, the way they arrived at this game was, and is, documented by YOUR post, RA played and beat Jersey Red, 8/7,9/7!
Artie played and beat Red giving Artie 10/8 and Red got ALL the breaks! Thus the game, 11/8 and RA gets ALL the breaks!
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Fred, the reason Artie's name ALWAYS comes up, is because there is one person on here, who thinks he
knows all there is to know about EVERYTHING !...As he keeps pointing out, he has a "right to his opinion" !
...What he can't seem to comprehend is, 'nobody cares' what he thinks about 'anything' !..When you
make as many erroneous statements as he has, people are bound to lose interest, and wish he would
just Go Away ! :frown:
PS..I'm sure he'll be along shortly, to call me a 'sucker', and a 'poor player' (for the 500th time)..All this,
coming from a guy who could never even chalk my cue....even with Artie helping him !
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Fred, the reason Artie's name ALWAYS comes up, is because there is one person on here, who thinks he
knows all there is to know about EVERYTHING !...As he keeps pointing out, he has a "right to his opinion" !
...What he can't seem to comprehend is, 'nobody cares' what he thinks about 'anything' !..When you
make as many erroneous statements as he has, people are bound to lose interest, and wish he would
just Go Away ! :frown:
PS..I'm sure he'll be along shortly, to call me a 'sucker', and a 'poor player' (for the 500th time)..All this,
coming from a guy who could never even chalk my cue....even with Artie helping him !
This is ALL a resentful, bitter, jealous old 'has been' has left to do with their time! Replying to a post for the someone else, don't you get tired of making yourself look completely foolish for YOUR TOTAL inconsideration for the other members!
Haven't YOU been chastised and banned for YOUR despicable behaviour on forums for long enough! How many members does it take to bring it to YOUR attention, maybe the entire collection, considering it hasn't penetrated thru that thick YJ soaked melon of yours!
And these posts is what YOU'VE chosen to leave as a lasting memory for the 'Internet Billiard Community' for ALL time! YOU must be really proud of yourself!
A concerned member for your mental welfare!
Yes, I am very proud of the fact that I have exposed you, for all the phony, self-serving falsehoods you have TRIED to promote !..It was all there, in black and white on the other site until you, (or Booth) deleted most of it !...Fortunately there are enough guy's still around, who remember it ALL ! :sorry:..Why do you think you keep getting slammed ? ..(however, I am NOT surprised, you haven't figured it out yet)
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Sorry Billy, but I read you saying that Artie needed 11/8 on Ronnie Allen's break or at least, you think Artie could beat Ronnie at 11-8, Ronnie breaking.
You're making a good assessment of Artie's overall knowledge, but you're not answering the OP's question. Nor did anyone ask about Artie.
Does your stats on Artie figure in on how Scott prime vs Ronnie prime would match up?
Freddie <~~~ the lesser
The post I replied to was providing info on RA's game in relation to how he played Red! All I did, was to relate how Red and Artie played in which Artie won easily as so did RA. And if RA could have gotten staked they would of played for BIG$!
About Scott and RA, I haven't seen RA or Scott play enough to make an informative decision to whom was or is the BEST!
I can ONLY speak for what I have seen with MY OWN eyes from a player I regarded as MANY people do, as good, if not better than the MORE popular players of the same era!
When you watch a player, such as Artie destroy TOP players, time and time again and have the 'Highest Winning Percentage' of 98% of the players it's hard to believe he couldn't beat anyone, including RA and Bugs, which He beat always!
Once again, MY opinion, which I've based on wagering MANY, MANY times on Artie's one pocket game in the past!
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Billy, I fully understand. I saw Ronnie play a thousand times and you saw Artie play a thousand times, thus we each have our own biases. I want you to know that was Ronnie's "trap" game, giving up balls and taking the break. No one could ever beat him at that game. He regularly gave good players 10-6 and took the break, and won every time. Back then everyone thought the break was worth two balls, but Ronnie told me it was worth four balls to him. Why, because his break was so strong and if he had the advantage in the game, you had virtually no chance to win. Believe me, he would keep you locked up on every turn, until he was ready to run some balls.
He would have had Artie in a trap with that game, whether you believe it or not. That's why Ronnie would propose a game like that. After he ran eleven and out a few times, Artie would have seen the light I'm sure. :wink:
P.S. Ronnie needing a backer is no surprise either. If there was a track anywhere around, his money was in danger.
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Billy, I fully understand. I saw Ronnie play a thousand times and you saw Artie play a thousand times, thus we each have our own biases. I want you to know that was Ronnie's "trap" game, giving up balls and taking the break. No one could ever beat him at that game. He regularly gave good players 10-6 and took the break, and won every time. Back then everyone thought the break was worth two balls, but Ronnie told me it was worth four balls to him. Why, because his break was so strong and if he had the advantage in the game, you had virtually no chance to win. Believe me, he would keep you locked up on every turn, until he was ready to run some balls.
He would have had Artie in a trap with that game, whether you believe it or not. That's why Ronnie would propose a game like that. After he ran eleven and out a few times, Artie would have seen the light I'm sure. :wink:
P.S. Ronnie needing a backer is no surprise either. If there was a track anywhere around, his money was in danger.
Jay; If that was Ra's 'Trap game' and EVERYONE knew Artie's rep for playing on the square playing pool was super solid! The backers should have been standing in line to stake RA at that game! The TRUTH be known, Artie was BETTER than ANYONE getting out of the break, even if 'JC' himself broke em!
BTW, Jay, it's NOT about being bias, it's about FACT, what I've seen Artie do with MY OWN eyes!
You most likely have seen Artie play in His prime as much as I did RA, NOT much!