Could SVB be the G.O.A.T. ???

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
Hah, that got your attention didn't it?

With all he's done and still at a fairly young age is it remotely possible that Shane may someday be considered the "Greatest of All Time"?

I'm not trying to kick Efren off of the pedestal, as he is arguably the greatest all-around player to play the game. But what does Shane need to do to take his place?

Opinions please...and if you have another choice for the G.O.A.T., please feel free to post your choice and explain why you think it so.

Let's keep this civil please.

Maniac
 
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Dimeball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why does everyone forget that SVB won the world 10ball title???

Anyway... I think it depends on what he accomplishishs in his late 40’s, if stays even close to the run he’s been on for the last 10-12 years, it’s a no brainer! Long live Efren, but Shane will pass him in earnings prolly before 40, as it’s said the best is the guy with the most!
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why does everyone forget that SVB won the world 10ball title???

Anyway... I think it depends on what he accomplishishs in his late 40’s, if stays even close to the run he’s been on for the last 10-12 years, it’s a no brainer! Long live Efren, but Shane will pass him in earnings prolly before 40, as it’s said the best is the guy with the most!
I agree that for 35, he's certainly well on pace to be one of the greatest. Let's revisit this discussion in another 10-15 years.
 

westcoast

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I didn't see enough of guys from previous eras. There is a lot of footage from the '80s and onward on youtube, but not much from beforehand so it hard to compare guys from other eras.

Having said that, Shane is an absolute beast. I was at the US Open 8 ball this week and was again impressed by Shane. He is such a steam-roller. I knew that once Oscar let him off the hook, that he'd win the tournament. Oscar had him down 7-5, race to 8 but sadly broke dry twice. Shane mercilessly punishes you for your errors. He has the greatest break of all-time for 8 ball and 10 ball- that I think can't be argued, but his game is much more than his break. He has very few weaknesses. The only guy that could stream-roll people like that was Earl in his prime.
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think it is wildly interesting. I think Efren raised the bar for a generation and will forever be remembered for pulling off exhibition shots in clutch moments in competition. I think SVB re-raised the bar and will forever be remembered for dominating his field and inspiring alternating break. If he shows longevity like Francisco or Souqet, it’ll be a no brainer. But it’s hard to say what Shaw or Filler might do soon because they’re already at his level out the gate but without his established legacy.


Respectfully, Matt
(I don’t take myself too seriously. I hope you can return the favor.)
 

poolhallbanger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Time will tell...

Just watched Shane win back to back US Open 10 ball & 8 Ball titles in Las Vegas beating the best players in the world along the way decisively! He definitely showed
the heart of a champion to do that:thumbup:
 

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
I think it is wildly interesting. I think Efren raised the bar for a generation and will forever be remembered for pulling off exhibition shots in clutch moments in competition. I think SVB re-raised the bar and will forever be remembered for dominating his field and inspiring alternating break. If he shows longevity like Francisco or Souqet, it’ll be a no brainer. But it’s hard to say what Shaw or Filler might do soon because they’re already at his level out the gate but without his established legacy.


Respectfully, Matt
(I don’t take myself too seriously. I hope you can return the favor.)

Shaw hasn't won 5 U.S. Opens yet, so no, he is not "already at Shane's level" yet.

Filler is not even in the conversation yet. His game is raw shotmaking at this point. His break is nowhere near Shane's.

Kaci is a much better comparison than either of those two. Plus, I think he's actually got a much higher top speed than either.

Short Bus Russ
 

PoolBum

Ace in the side.
Silver Member
He's definitely in the conversation, and on the short list IMO. He's practically dominated the pool scene on U.S. soil (including, of course, many stellar international fields) for about a decade.

If we're talking all-around it's still going to be tough to surpass Efren, IMO. Efren is arguably the best ever at 1-pocket, 8-ball, and rotation.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
No, he's not even in the conversation. Without World Nine 9-Ball titles or any major WPA titles, he has come up empty time and time again in the events having the toughest fields in our sport. If you don't win the toughest titles, you're not the best ever. No doubt, with all his titles at the US Open and Derby City, Shane is on the short list of the best nine ball players ever.

That said, Shane is in the conversation for the best ever American player.

Measuring him against Lassiter, for example., makes for an interesting comparison. Lassiter won two of the three disciplines at Johnston City in three consectuive years. Lassiter was considered the best nine ball player of his era and he was also one of the world's best straight pool players. In action, many consider Lassiter the best player of all time.

I'd put Shane above Earl Strickland, Buddy Hall, and Johnny Archer in nine ball.

I'm not so sure Shane is a better all-around player than Nick Varner was. Nick was a world champion in each of 8-ball, 9-ball, straight pool and bank pool. Similarly, Mike Sigel was a beast in virtually every discipline, and, in my view, was a better player than Shane.

Shane has had a magnificent career, but he's most definitely not the best ever.... even if if we leave the legends of straight pool like Mosconi, Greenleaf and Crane out of the equation.
 

Tin Man

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I believe SVB is the best pool player of all time in regards to 8/9/10 ball.

There have always been great players, but the levels of play are stronger both at the highest levels and in terms of depth of talent. Yes SVB consistently rises to the top of these fields displaying a dominance I haven't seen before in my lifetime. On the gambling front I haven't seen anyone with a stronger record and no one is lining up to get in the box. There is a reason he is #1 on Fargorate.

This isn't to take away from any of the players before. Efren certainly is an icon, Mosconi is a legend, you simply can't compare them. Other players have been equally dominant and have revolutionized the game during their times. But in terms of actual skill level, today it's the highest it's ever been and SVB is on top and has been consistently for 12 years.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
SVB might be the greatest 8-ball, 9-ball and 10-ball player of all time .
Efren has a good case in one-pocket, 15-ball and balkline ( among pool players ).
Oddly enough, Efren has won the world 9-ball while Shane has not .
Efren has won more King of the Hill than anyone if I'm not mistaken.
 

Tin Man

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
world titles

No, he's not even in the conversation. Without World Nine 9-Ball titles or any major WPA titles, he has come up empty time and time again in the events having the toughest fields in our sport. If you don't win the toughest titles, you're not the best ever. No doubt, with all his titles at the US Open and Derby City, Shane is on the short list of the best nine ball players ever.

That said, Shane is in the conversation for the best ever American player.

Measuring him against Lassiter, for example., makes for an interesting comparison. Lassiter won two of the three disciplines at Johnston City in three consectuive years. Lassiter was considered the best nine ball player of his era and he was also one of the world's best straight pool players. In action, many consider Lassiter the best player of all time.

I'd put Shane above Earl Strickland, Buddy Hall, and Johnny Archer in nine ball.

I'm not so sure Shane is a better all-around player than Nick Varner was. Nick was a world champion in each of 8-ball, 9-ball, straight pool and bank pool. Similarly, Mike Sigel was a beast in virtually every discipline, and, in my view, was a better player than Shane.

Shane has had a magnificent career, but he's most definitely not the best ever.... even if if we leave the legends of straight pool like Mosconi, Greenleaf and Crane out of the equation.

I don't feel the same way about world titles. They are single elimination, race to 11. In Willie Mosconi's day half the tournaments were round robins that took 2-4 weeks. He won all of them. Then when they had a challenge match that was a small field round robin over 3 days he'd lose an extra game and lose the title. It infuriated him that he'd win convincingly in long contests and then they'd have a dog and pony show that would cost him his streak.

Race to 11 single elim is no different. Of course you have to be awesome to win it, but you can be awesome and drop a set of pool. Daryl Peach is not better than SVB because of one good tournament, and SVB is not worse because he took two 2nd places and dropped a couple of sets. If the world 9 ball was really set up to determine the best player the results would be different. I'm not giving SVB credit for a title he hasn't won, but I'm not too worked up about that event when he's beat the best players repeatedly for over a decade.

As for Sigel, his tournament record is impressive, but I don't think he faced the same level of competition. And if he gambled with SVB playing 9 or 10 ball I would take SVB all day long. Varner has always been my hero but I would be SVB there as well were they to match up best against best.

I think the game will keep evolving. Kaci is my pick for best of all time in 10 years. Right now it is still the Shane era. The two titles this week with the fields we have today are just another one of many reminders.
 

I Got Lucky

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's not just about titles and or amount of cash won. You have to look at the total package. Shane is too young at this time to evaluate his standing as the GOAT.
 

Nick B

This is gonna hurt
Silver Member
No, he's not even in the conversation. Without World Nine 9-Ball titles or any major WPA titles, he has come up empty time and time again in the events having the toughest fields in our sport. If you don't win the toughest titles, you're not the best ever. No doubt, with all his titles at the US Open and Derby City, Shane is on the short list of the best nine ball players ever.

That said, Shane is in the conversation for the best ever American player.

Measuring him against Lassiter, for example., makes for an interesting comparison. Lassiter won two of the three disciplines at Johnston City in three consectuive years. Lassiter was considered the best nine ball player of his era and he was also one of the world's best straight pool players. In action, many consider Lassiter the best player of all time.

I'd put Shane above Earl Strickland, Buddy Hall, and Johnny Archer in nine ball.

I'm not so sure Shane is a better all-around player than Nick Varner was. Nick was a world champion in each of 8-ball, 9-ball, straight pool and bank pool. Similarly, Mike Sigel was a beast in virtually every discipline, and, in my view, was a better player than Shane.

Shane has had a magnificent career, but he's most definitely not the best ever.... even if if we leave the legends of straight pool like Mosconi, Greenleaf and Crane out of the equation.

This is what I was thinking...let me put my hard hat on. I'm not sure Efren is as good as some of his predecessors or contemporaries. What makes Efren is that he's well loved (with great reason) and his freeky shot and knowledge capabilities. Many have as good or better resumes (SVB included). Nick Varner often gets forgotten. Sigel if better liked would probably have the crown. Mosconi was the greatest 14.1 player (the game of his era but not much else) Crane was more admired for his longevity. Greenleaf was one of a kind but before my time.

On paper SVB has passed Efren (trophy case measurement). His only comparison would be Earl and Sigel. If he can keep his pace for 5 or maybe 10 years he will lap the field.

OK. I'm ready. Hard hat securely in place.
 

King T

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well...,

No, he's not even in the conversation. Without World Nine 9-Ball titles or any major WPA titles, he has come up empty time and time again in the events having the toughest fields in our sport. If you don't win the toughest titles, you're not the best ever. No doubt, with all his titles at the US Open and Derby City, Shane is on the short list of the best nine ball players ever.

That said, Shane is in the conversation for the best ever American player.

Measuring him against Lassiter, for example., makes for an interesting comparison. Lassiter won two of the three disciplines at Johnston City in three consectuive years. Lassiter was considered the best nine ball player of his era and he was also one of the world's best straight pool players. In action, many consider Lassiter the best player of all time.

I'd put Shane above Earl Strickland, Buddy Hall, and Johnny Archer in nine ball.

I'm not so sure Shane is a better all-around player than Nick Varner was. Nick was a world champion in each of 8-ball, 9-ball, straight pool and bank pool. Similarly, Mike Sigel was a beast in virtually every discipline, and, in my view, was a better player than Shane.

Shane has had a magnificent career, but he's most definitely not the best ever.... even if if we leave the legends of straight pool like Mosconi, Greenleaf and Crane out of the equation.

Lassiter and Nick were great player, bit neither one of them faced the kind of competition that Shane has faced for the length of time that Shane has.

he's not ahead of Efren and wont be for a while, but there is going to be time if he keeps this pace that it'll be a thin margin either way.
 

pinkspider

Crap user name, I know.
Silver Member
imho SVB is like Earl Mark II. Definitely assured of legend status, but still some way off GOAT

I think SVB needs to venture out into the other disciplines and gain a reputation for being a great all-round player before GOAT comes into the picture. just an opinion tho.

To me at least, the question needed here is: what do you need to be in the running for GOAT? I think everyone has a different view of what it takes
 

pwd72s

recreational banger
Silver Member
Who is the best heavyweight boxer ever? Ali? Joe Lewis? Undefeated Rocky Marciano? G.O.A.T. debates go on in all sports...just pick your favorite, and wade in...
 
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