CTE Journey
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sacman
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CTE Journey - 10-16-2018, 03:48 AM

Sharing my development using CTE:

First: A copy of a previous post that involves a frustration point:

09-25-2018, 05:43 AM
The hardest thing about CTE for me is not aligning the visuals (e.g. CTE/ETA, etc.), nor an accurate visual sweep. I miss more shots because I have chosen the WRONG visual and/or sweep when the shot is close to the transition between 15->30 or 30->45. I know what a visual sweep direction does ... thick or thins the shot. Frustrating.

Still .... I won my Monday night match 11-3.


Allen

Last edited by sacman; 10-16-2018 at 10:35 AM.
  
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10-16-2018, 03:53 AM

Determining the visual (15/I, 15/O, 30/I, etc.) is becoming much easier. I still struggle at times with the switch-over from, e.g. 30-inside to a 45-outside but doing the same shots over and over (using ring-binder reinforcement rings) has made all the difference. I'm moving into the next challenging phase: choosing the correct visual sweep. Yet, I'm selecting the correct one most of the time there too. It takes a lot of practice but I'm seeing improvement - because I have objectivity (aim points & CTE). It is up to me to be consistent with the body movements as my eyes lead me to the correct shot line.

I simplified by eliminating the use of the 30/O as it is the same as a 15/I. Eventually, I'll add it back in because some shots are easier with a 30/O because how they appear on the table.

Result: won my match last night: 15-1 (lost because of a scratch).


Allen

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10-16-2018, 07:48 AM

allen
thats great that you are improving and seeing results...
  
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sacman
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10-16-2018, 10:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
allen
thats great that you are improving and seeing results...
Thanks

Shooting pool has never been more enjoyable.


Allen
  
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10-16-2018, 11:30 AM

Great job. It gets easier over time.
  
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10-17-2018, 01:01 AM

Great results and good work, keep at it!!
  
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10-17-2018, 01:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacman View Post
Determining the visual (15/I, 15/O, 30/I, etc.) is becoming much easier. I still struggle at times with the switch-over from, e.g. 30-inside to a 45-outside but doing the same shots over and over (using ring-binder reinforcement rings) has made all the difference. I'm moving into the next challenging phase: choosing the correct visual sweep. Yet, I'm selecting the correct one most of the time there too. It takes a lot of practice but I'm seeing improvement - because I have objectivity (aim points & CTE). It is up to me to be consistent with the body movements as my eyes lead me to the correct shot line.

I simplified by eliminating the use of the 30/O as it is the same as a 15/I. Eventually, I'll add it back in because some shots are easier with a 30/O because how they appear on the table.

Result: won my match last night: 15-1 (lost because of a scratch).
Bob Nunley has an interesting way of determining sweeps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_YqDvTn4Ew
  
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10-18-2018, 06:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mista335 View Post
Bob Nunley has an interesting way of determining sweeps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_YqDvTn4Ew
Thanks. I've never used ghost but I can see how that would help those who have. Having watched Stan's YT videos (as well as the DVD) I find the following most helpful.

1) Determine the location of the contact point on the object ball.
2) When in full stance (down on the table) the slanted cue's tip will be pointing at or slightly past that contact point. It is then that I can vividly see whether - or not - the cut shot is too thin or too thick.

CTE is the greatest system I've tried. On one shot from my drill routine last night I simply walked up to the table bent over in a 15/O and rocketed the ball in the pocket. It was at least 5 diamonds away from the cue ball. It was so instinctive. I do believe that CTE becomes subconcious over time.


Allen

Last edited by sacman; 10-19-2018 at 02:23 AM.
  
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10-19-2018, 05:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacman View Post

CTE is the greatest system I've tried. On one shot from my drill routine last night I simply walked up to the table bent over in a 15/O and rocketed the ball in the pocket. It was at least 5 diamonds away from the cue ball. It was so instinctive. I do believe that CTE becomes subconcious over time.
Don't forget what got you there with the subconscious or you'll be saying, "I don't even use an aiming system. I just KNOW where to hit it."


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10-19-2018, 06:50 AM

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10-19-2018, 01:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacman View Post
Thanks. I've never used ghost but I can see how that would help those who have. Having watched Stan's YT videos (as well as the DVD) I find the following most helpful.

1) Determine the location of the contact point on the object ball.
2) When in full stance (down on the table) the slanted cue's tip will be pointing at or slightly past that contact point. It is then that I can vividly see whether - or not - the cut shot is too thin or too thick.
Sacman, I know you think I am some kind of enemy, but I'm not. I'm happy your game is improving so well. That being said, I have to comment on what you said above about contact points. You ARE NOT using Stan's system if you are using contact points as a reference point. Whatever you ARE doing is not what Stan teaches and maybe that is what is giving you some trouble.

Here are some comments from Stan to Brian, BC21 who was discussing contact points:

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showp...0&postcount=70

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showp...4&postcount=75

Use or don't use this information to help your progress as you chooose.


Dan White
  
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Patrick Johnson
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10-19-2018, 04:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacman View Post
Thanks. I've never used ghost but I can see how that would help those who have. Having watched Stan's YT videos (as well as the DVD) I find the following most helpful.

1) Determine the location of the contact point on the object ball.
2) When in full stance (down on the table) the slanted cue's tip will be pointing at or slightly past that contact point. It is then that I can vividly see whether - or not - the cut shot is too thin or too thick.

CTE is the greatest system I've tried. On one shot from my drill routine last night I simply walked up to the table bent over in a 15/O and rocketed the ball in the pocket. It was at least 5 diamonds away from the cue ball. It was so instinctive. I do believe that CTE becomes subconcious over time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan White View Post
Sacman, I know you think I am some kind of enemy, but I'm not. I'm happy your game is improving so well. That being said, I have to comment on what you said above about contact points. You ARE NOT using Stan's system if you are using contact points as a reference point. Whatever you ARE doing is not what Stan teaches and maybe that is what is giving you some trouble.

Here are some comments from Stan to Brian, BC21 who was discussing contact points:

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showp...0&postcount=70

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showp...4&postcount=75

Use or don't use this information to help your progress as you chooose.
Learning to visualize the OB contact point has been the single most helpful thing I've done for my own aiming. I think it would help anybody's aiming, no matter what method they use, even if their method ignores the contact point. It's a powerful reference when used consciously, but also valuable just as "context info".

If you could choose to have the contact point be visible on the OB for every shot, would you? I think most players can, with practice.

pj
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10-20-2018, 03:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Learning to visualize the OB contact point has been the single most helpful thing I've done for my own aiming.

Contact point was the single most helpful thing I used to learn how to play pool from the beginning to many years beyond. Joe Tucker took it to new levels with the grid and training balls to help visualization and preciseness.

I think it would help anybody's aiming, no matter what method they use, even if their method ignores the contact point. It's a powerful reference when used consciously, but also valuable just as "context info".

The "context info" of contact point doesn't come into play with true CTE and never has been as pointed out by Stan and Dan. However for beginners new to CTE (not beginner pool players), it can be used to bridge the gap during the transition period between switching aiming systems to help retrain the brain for new visuals. This will be discussed in the book. (it's really Ghost ball, not CP. They're very similar and interchanged.)

If you could choose to have the contact point be visible on the OB for every shot, would you? I think most players can, with practice.

pj
chgo
I'd vote for the above sentence as the best one you've ever made in your entire history of posting. The answer should be a resounding "YES" for everyone.

It certainly makes more sense than "I just see the OB, shot line, pocket, and do it by FEEL".

But there are OTHER things that can be seen and lined up between CB and OB to bring the visuals in more clearly and consistently than contact point. It's why I and many others switched after decades of playing. We didn't do it to play worse, it was to be more accurate and play consistently better.

There was this guy with the initials HH...(long story to be saved for a later date)


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sacman
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10-20-2018, 05:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Learning to visualize the OB contact point has been the single most helpful thing I've done for my own aiming. I think it would help anybody's aiming, no matter what method they use, even if their method ignores the contact point. It's a powerful reference when used consciously, but also valuable just as "context info".

If you could choose to have the contact point be visible on the OB for every shot, would you? I think most players can, with practice.

pj
chgo
Stan SEEMS to contradict himself in his teachings (e.g. on his DVD he states that "it's ok to look directly down the 45 degree aim point", then later gives a YT video on improving that line). But! ... when watching Stan's videos (& DVD) one has to remember to give the guy a break as he is sharing his knowledge as he discovers and tests it. I'm thankful that he has done so. In a later series he says he has come full circle. Full circle CTE will be need to be explained to me more as I am not quite understanding it from his videos at this point. Although I have gleaned much after viewing them several times. My shot making has climbed from 30% to 60-70% with only two days/week on the table.

Regarding the contact point: He does state that by using CTE one can notice that - while in full stance (down on the shot) their slanted cue will give them the perception that they are looking directly or slightly outside the contact point. This information has been very helpful as all shots that are not extreme cuts can be aimed at an objective point.

It can be fun when going down on the shot and you KNOW you are lined up to pocket the ball. Your opponent is left shaking when you ROCKET that ball into center pocket and still end up with a decent position on the next ball.


Allen

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10-20-2018, 05:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderWebComm View Post
Don't forget what got you there with the subconscious or you'll be saying, "I don't even use an aiming system. I just KNOW where to hit it."



Good one.


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