Cuemaker history

Jon Manning

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hello all,
Been think about how we got to where we currently are with cue design.
To my knowledge there are two different styles of cues;
1) Balabushka style
2) DPK style

I’m sure there are other cue styles, but those two stand out as vastly different in most ways.

Does anyone have a graph on who learned from who?

Though it would be cool to discuss the different cue types we have available to us today and how we got to this point.

JCM
 

Cuebuddy

Mini cues
Silver Member
Yes, there is a graph of masters and their apprentices and I have seen it on this forum recently. I am sure someone has it and will help you out. I believe I might of saved a picture of it when I saw it but I am traveling now and don't have access to my PC.
 

$TAKE HOR$E

champagne - campaign
Silver Member
The no frills no points cues, which go by various names would be in a class of their own. How many guys made those way back in the day. This would actually be a very interesting topic to discuss when it comes to the “tribute or copy” cues.
 

Jon Manning

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The no frills no points cues, which go by various names would be in a class of their own. How many guys made those way back in the day. This would actually be a very interesting topic to discuss when it comes to the “tribute or copy” cues.

Let’s call them Widow cues, unless someone has a better name.
It would be interesting to know if they are different in construction, guess that would depend on who built it.

I remember seeing a chart on AZ showing who mentored who, I’ve done a few searches and couldn’t find it again.

I do know that Bushka has influenced Tasc, Black, Szam, Searing and countless others.
Then you the DPK, Southwest style.

It would be cool to have an updated chart showing everything.

I would like to think everyone that contributes! My hope are to have a comprehensive chart that shows all the know history, similar to the tread we have on the history of the 360 cue.
JCM
 

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
History like this has never presented itself to

my mind for formal investigation,but I have always thought
of two basic styles
1 The Balabushka,Brunswick Willie Hoppe
and
2..The South West Style

I am not sure if the Deano cues I made were in either of these two groups

Perhaps the wood pin Billiard cue would be a third style

I know you chose DPK over South West for the name,perhaps the germ was Kersenback,but Jerry Franklin put them on the map

interesting thread
dean
 

Cuebuddy

Mini cues
Silver Member
Home

Here is what I have. I borrowed it from somebody who posted it awhile ago. Thanks for the info to the OP. It certainly does not cover all the cue makers but its a start.


Pic removed.....don't want to be responsible for fake news.:eek:
 
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Type79

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Some who are more knowledgeable than I, have taken issue with that tree. You might want to contact the living cuemakers to ask their opinions.
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
The no frills no points cues, which go by various names would be in a class of their own. How many guys made those way back in the day. This would actually be a very interesting topic to discuss when it comes to the “tribute or copy” cues.

I had a gorgeous one by Rocky Tillis from 76 to 78 when it was stolen. Bird's Eye maple, linen wrap, white butt cap, stainless joint. Man, did I love that cue.
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
The no frills no points cues, which go by various names would be in a class of their own. How many guys made those way back in the day. This would actually be a very interesting topic to discuss when it comes to the “tribute or copy” cues.



That should be considered “Martin class” can’t call say martins “fancy” ivory handles nor plain cues with any kind of ringwork merry widows....a widow is puuuhlain lol


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Jon Manning

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That should be considered “Martin class” can’t call say martins “fancy” ivory handles nor plain cues with any kind of ringwork merry widows....a widow is puuuhlain lol


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Strong point!
Martin style!
Does anyone know who inspired Martin? From what I understand about him, every cue was different. The cues were made for the player truly custom. Didn’t he measure and watch how a person played before he made a cue for them?
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Strong point!

Martin style!

Does anyone know who inspired Martin? From what I understand about him, every cue was different. The cues were made for the player truly custom. Didn’t he measure and watch how a person played before he made a cue for them?



I believe he just picked it up on his own tinkering with making them.

Yes that’s the story......I think Dave gross knew him if I’m not mistaken....I’ll hit him up see if he can expound.

I have one from the 50s that’s all original traded a SW satin for it......love the Martin it’s ivory on ferrule, joint and cap.....it is a Merry Widow nothing smeegle would like on it lol (no rings)


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greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Lol I got Dave telling me a bedtime story right now hahahahaha


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greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Bedtime stories with Dave Gross (12squared)

“It was early 1977 and Harvey Martin was invited to a little session of me playing with Allen Gilbert at a private home.

Although Harvey was suffering from shingles at the time and stop making ques he was feeling well during the whole day so after we finished our session Harvey took me to a hardware store had me buy some yellow woodworkers glue of knife and a sharpening stone. after which we went to his apartment and he showed me how he put tips on and shape them. A memory I will never forget in fact I'm getting a semi just talking about it now. LoL now go to bed”

Thank you for the nightcap Dave


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skins

Likes to draw
Silver Member
It's a damn shame that so many never mention the "other food group" in cues that Cognoscenti made popular in the early 90's and since has influenced decades of design.. Joe Gold is a pioneer in a many aspects and NEVER gets the recognition. His push of fancy design floating points, silver implementation, ultra precision construction, and G10 pin are so under recognised it's borderline criminal.

Joe is another pioneer that deservers his due in the cue category discussion.
 

Jon Manning

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's a damn shame that so many never mention the "other food group" in cues that Cognoscenti made popular in the early 90's and since has influenced decades of design.. Joe Gold is a pioneer in a many aspects and NEVER gets the recognition. His push of fancy design floating points, silver implementation, ultra precision construction, and G10 pin are so under recognised it's borderline criminal.

Joe is another pioneer that deservers his due in the cue category discussion.

Right on! That’s one of the reasons I decided to post this tread, so we (as a community) could discuss The who, what, when, where and how we got to this point in cue constitution.

Do you know where Joe got his inspiration to build cues the way he does? Did he apprentice under anyone? Aside from the glass pin, how is his cue building so different that he should be considered, in a different category?

I would imagine, if this tread goes on for awhile (very much hope it does) we will get into the area of how certain builders actually construct cues. Anyone that has spent any time around makers know, they keep a lot of the detains very close. But, a lot of the construction is pretty well know, if you pay attention, like the way Bushka used a phenolic ring to better attach the end grain of wood, usually under the wrap or as the buzz ring. Spain actually talks about it in his cue building book. Anyways I believe we can still have this conversation without letting the cat out of the bag.

If the chart can’t be found, I’ll wait until we get a good bit of info and put together a chart/list and post on my initial thread, so everything is on the first page. Once we decide on how many different categories there are, I’ll just start adding names under certain styles like;

Balabushka:
Pete Tascarella, Richard Black, Dennis Searing, etc...
DPK:
Jerry Franklin, etc...
Martin:
....

I’m excited to see the history of cue building! Hell, it might save everyone time because pretty often, people ask “who makes cues that are like....”
We could post a link to this tread and let people see who learned from who and make their own decisions about choosing a maker.

If I post something that is incorrect or a maker doesn’t want public, send me a PM or say something and we’ll resolve it like adults. Really don’t want this tread to turn into one big argument. Already plenty of those threads, don’t need another.
Again, thank you to all those that contribute
 
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greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
It's a damn shame that so many never mention the "other food group" in cues that Cognoscenti made popular in the early 90's and since has influenced decades of design.. Joe Gold is a pioneer in a many aspects and NEVER gets the recognition. His push of fancy design floating points, silver implementation, ultra precision construction, and G10 pin are so under recognised it's borderline criminal.



Joe is another pioneer that deservers his due in the cue category discussion.



I think he gets that recognition from the informed, but I know what you mean. I do remember a time when folks spoke of joes work sort of how we hear them speak on searing for example these days.....extremely precise work and very clean.....floaters were never were never to my tastes but superb work and original designs none the less

I think that kind of thing would be a subcategory tho


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HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would imagine, if this tread goes on for awhile (very much hope it does) we will get into the area of how certain builders actually construct cues. Anyone that has spent any time around makers know, they keep a lot of the detains very close. But, a lot of the construction is pretty well know, if you pay attention, like the way Bushka used a phenolic ring to better attach the end grain of wood, usually under the wrap or as the buzz ring. Spain actually talks about it in his cue building book.

And how about hanger bolts?
 
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