Play of ferruleless shafts?

THam

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was wondering what the difference is in a shaft with and without a ferrule? I had a cuemaker ask me if I wanted a ferrule on my shafts.
 

PRED

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Try it! You'll like it! Has to have a soaked and pressed Triangle.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I was wondering what the difference is in a shaft with and without a ferrule? I had a cuemaker ask me if I wanted a ferrule on my shafts.
I played for years without a ferrule. I learned early on that in fact you need some help for the wood or it splits. I used tips that had a fiber backing. You could just add a fiber pad for an unbacked tip so that you have a 1mm ferrule.

I went without a ferrule starting about 1980 because I realized it reduced the amount of squirt (cue ball deflection). That continued until commercial low-squirt shafts became available and they tended to have ferrules. My current stick doesn't seem to have a ferrule. It's a Revo.
 

S.Vaskovskyi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was wondering what the difference is in a shaft with and without a ferrule? I had a cuemaker ask me if I wanted a ferrule on my shafts.
You said on your shafts...so if a cuemaker is going to build two shafts for you and you're curious about the difference just ask to build one with a ferrule and another ferrule less. Then you'll be able to play them, compare and figure out yourself.
There is a difference in a hit with different types of ferrules (material, construction, length etc.). Ferrule less shafts can be build differently too. It depends on your preferences. How much deflection you are comfortable to play with. What type of hit you like and so on.
The difference might be so subtle the one player might not even notice while for the other it is obvious.
Without your own experience you will never know.

P.S. if you decide to give it a try you'll better have your chalking technique right).
 

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I tried a Black Boar cue with shafts w/o ferrule.

Did it play and feel different? Absolutely, it did.

Would I ever want one one? Nope, not a chance.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I played for years without a ferrule. I learned early on that in fact you need some help for the wood or it splits. I used tips that had a fiber backing. You could just add a fiber pad for an unbacked tip so that you have a 1mm ferrule.

I went without a ferrule starting about 1980 because I realized it reduced the amount of squirt (cue ball deflection). That continued until commercial low-squirt shafts became available and they tended to have ferrules. My current stick doesn't seem to have a ferrule. It's a Revo.
In a way the Revo does have what amounts to a ferrule, the vault plate.
 

Franky4Eyes

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In a way the Revo does have what amounts to a ferrule, the vault plate.

Right!
The tenon and vault plate could be considered a complete ferrule.

I had a Davis/Prince cue that came with no ferrules. Played very well but the hit was soft.
I put a different shaft on with a ferrule and discovered how much the hit really changed.
No ferrule is just too soft a hit for my tastes.
 

S.Vaskovskyi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Right!
The tenon and vault plate could be considered a complete ferrule.

I had a Davis/Prince cue that came with no ferrules. Played very well but the hit was soft.
I put a different shaft on with a ferrule and discovered how much the hit really changed.
No ferrule is just too soft a hit for my tastes.

There are options when it comes to the construction of the shaft. In this case at the tip end. I've played with a "ferrule less" maple shaft once I started lerning and experimenting at cue-building till I've tried and built cf shaft for my player three weeks ago and now I'm switching to it.
Both my maple shaft and cf shaft have the same construction and material "internal" ferrule meaning tenon glued into cf tube. The only difference is the diameter of the tube at the end of my maple shaft and cf tube for cf shaft. Both shafts have pretty crisp hit due to these "ferrules" are made out of moose horn which is very hard and the amount of deflection is pretty similar.
I'm switching to my new cf shaft first of all due to its lower weight which is 3,35 oz while my maple shaft is 4,55 oz (quite heavy but it's almost 31" with pretty hard maple). This switch allows me to lower my extra long cue's weight from 20,74 oz to 19,54 oz with a balance I like more.
P.S. When you know what you're looking for there are different ways to reach it.
 

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Franky4Eyes

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There are options when it comes to the construction of the shaft. In this case at the tip end.

My comment was only about solid maple shafts with no ferrule.
I absolutely offer no opinion concerning open ended carbon rods as my experiences with the carbon shafts were all very brief.
I liked the hit of most of them but not enough to change from maple.
I own too many maple shafts. :D
 
I was wondering what the difference is in a shaft with and without a ferrule? I had a cuemaker ask me if I wanted a ferrule on my shafts.

I tried a ferruless shaft before, and I hated it. I can only describe the hit as extremely hard. I really did not like the way it hit, but the person who I sold the shaft to was very happy.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There are options when it comes to the construction of the shaft. In this case at the tip end. I've played with a "ferrule less" maple shaft once I started lerning and experimenting at cue-building till I've tried and built cf shaft for my player three weeks ago and now I'm switching to it.
Both my maple shaft and cf shaft have the same construction and material "internal" ferrule meaning tenon glued into cf tube. The only difference is the diameter of the tube at the end of my maple shaft and cf tube for cf shaft. Both shafts have pretty crisp hit due to these "ferrules" are made out of moose horn which is very hard and the amount of deflection is pretty similar.
I'm switching to my new cf shaft first of all due to its lower weight which is 3,35 oz while my maple shaft is 4,55 oz (quite heavy but it's almost 31" with pretty hard maple). This switch allows me to lower my extra long cue's weight from 20,74 oz to 19,54 oz with a balance I like more.
P.S. When you know what you're looking for there are different ways to reach it.

Did you try this "internal" ferrule on a hollow maple shaft? I would think the shaft would split easily, since it's hoop stress would be high with this internal insert pushing on the hoop during a hit. With the hoop being wood, the stress would go across the wood grain and split it. CF shaft in contrast are laid up so they have a high hoop stress capability all around the circumference.

On traditional shafts, the ferrule is providing the function of the "hoop". It is much stronger than the wood, and that is why the wood does not crack, and why ferrules are generally needed and used for the past 100 years.

To the OP, also as mentioned in a prior post, you have to have your chalking down pat if you get a ferruleless shaft. Otherwise, the chalk will abraid the wood, and you will quickly get a dark blue area of a smaller diameter right below the tip. Impossible to fix because the wood is gone. A ferrule is better at taking this wear and tear because its harder.
 

S.Vaskovskyi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Did you try this "internal" ferrule on a hollow maple shaft? I would think the shaft would split easily, since it's hoop stress would be high with this internal insert pushing on the hoop during a hit. With the hoop being wood, the stress would go across the wood grain and split it. CF shaft in contrast are laid up so they have a high hoop stress capability all around the circumference.

On traditional shafts, the ferrule is providing the function of the "hoop". It is much stronger than the wood, and that is why the wood does not crack, and why ferrules are generally needed and used for the past 100 years.

To the OP, also as mentioned in a prior post, you have to have your chalking down pat if you get a ferruleless shaft. Otherwise, the chalk will abraid the wood, and you will quickly get a dark blue area of a smaller diameter right below the tip. Impossible to fix because the wood is gone. A ferrule is better at taking this wear and tear because its harder.
All those things are pretty obvious for somebody with a curious mind. I have quite enough experience to understand what is really important and the meaning of each detail either it goes to the construction or any part of the game etc.
When it comes to my maple shaft it has inserts at both ends. At the tip end it has 6" long 8mm external, 6mm internal diameters cf tube. So that inernal ferrule glued inside of that tube. I don't think I had invented a wheel.
I've just wanted to get LD shaft without that hollow feeling some I tried did have.
I've got what I was looking for and used it pretty hard for last three years and it still looks and plays the same. May be I'm just lucky).
Of course building such shaft for a student I work with teaching him and a customer I don't know his level of playing and knowledge in addition who lives in another country are definitely much different stories. I'll be much more restful at least with some short ferrule added under that internal ferrule. I'm using certain combinations of materials for a certain hit and so far pretty happy with my results).
 

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Franky4Eyes

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
S.V.
I can roll a brick down a hill,
but that doesn't mean I'm gonna replace my car tires with them.
I'm hoping nothing is lost in translation here.
 

S.Vaskovskyi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
S.V.
I can roll a brick down a hill,
but that doesn't mean I'm gonna replace my car tires with them.
I'm hoping nothing is lost in translation here.
No offence...I have quite a few aphorisms either in russian or ukranian and I believe there will be much more lost in translation there;).
 

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The ferrule adds weight, thus will have more deflection
The ferrule adds protection, preventing the wood from splitting

Longevity or low deflection is your pick!
 

ArizonaBill

Registered
If the cue is carbon fiber that was designed without a ferrule, then you don't need a ferrule. Why pay for something you don't need. A wooden shaft , on the other hand is almost always made with a ferrule so the wood won't split. I have tried some wooden cues without a ferrule and they feel weak. I personally think they are much less accurate and also have less power to draw back the cue ball. The mere fact that I would be worried about damaging my cue would throw me off my game, destroy my confidence, and make the game much less enjoyable. So if it's wood get a ferrule unless for some strange
reason it plays fantastic without one, which I highly doubt would be the case.
 
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