10 ball defense break?

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Rules prevent it in most tournaments but if you get in a game where the 3 balls pocketed or above the head string rule isn't used it can be effective against a guy who is a straight shooter but can't kick and especially effective against a guy with a bit of a temper.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Rules prevent it in most tournaments but if you get in a game where the 3 balls pocketed or above the head string rule isn't used it can be effective against a guy who is a straight shooter but can't kick and especially effective against a guy with a bit of a temper.
That's why there ARE those rules. Play 14.1 if you want to but lets not ruin 10b with it.
 

Tin Man

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
agreed

Like what...?


Thank you Black-balled. I didn't want to start an argument because each to their own, but I do feel like we have an obligation to ensure we provide accurate information to other readers that might be influenced by these threads.

The truth is I can count thousands of times in my life when someone won a 9/10 ball match due to an effective break shot, and have never once seen where someone won a match due to a safety break.

I am speaking rotation games specifically. For non-runout players there could be some debate about breaking softer in 8 ball, particularly in a situation where balls are points and you have a ball lead, etc. But in 9 ball and 10 ball there is a push out, so there is no opportunity to gain any type of advantage with a safety break. In fact with many rules now about 3 balls passing the headstring or it becoming an 'illegal break' and you having to shoot without the option of a push, it could be very, very harmful.

Theoretically I think the poster was saying "If you can only run 3 balls, and your opponent can run the table, then it makes sense to prevent a table run and improve the chances of it coming down to an end game where both players are within range of running out." This sounds reasonable, but in practice I have never seen it work. The better player is also better at playing safeties that open up clusters and game management. The reality is that I lose far more games to my opponent when the money ball ends up near a pocket early than I do being outmoved, so they are probably better served breaking hard and hoping the money ball trends towards a pocket.

A better strategy that might fit along these lines would be to pass on a shot at the 1 ball and call push, then shooting the money ball near another pocket so they might have an opportunity for a short rack. This I could actually believe might make some sense. Or if you're getting spotted the 7 ball, pushing out and tying up the 8/9 so you are on a free roll to some degree. So I am all about creative strategies. But breaking poorly in rotation games doesn't benefit anyone. And if someone comes up with a theoretical argument, I challenge them to find examples of matches where it was advantageous, because I can point to many, many short racks that say break them hard and do your best.
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Thank you Black-balled. I didn't want to start an argument because each to their own, but I do feel like we have an obligation to ensure we provide accurate information to other readers that might be influenced by these threads.

The truth is I can count thousands of times in my life when someone won a 9/10 ball match due to an effective break shot, and have never once seen where someone won a match due to a safety break.

I am speaking rotation games specifically. For non-runout players there could be some debate about breaking softer in 8 ball, particularly in a situation where balls are points and you have a ball lead, etc. But in 9 ball and 10 ball there is a push out, so there is no opportunity to gain any type of advantage with a safety break. In fact with many rules now about 3 balls passing the headstring or it becoming an 'illegal break' and you having to shoot without the option of a push, it could be very, very harmful.

Theoretically I think the poster was saying "If you can only run 3 balls, and your opponent can run the table, then it makes sense to prevent a table run and improve the chances of it coming down to an end game where both players are within range of running out." This sounds reasonable, but in practice I have never seen it work. The better player is also better at playing safeties that open up clusters and game management. The reality is that I lose far more games to my opponent when the money ball ends up near a pocket early than I do being outmoved, so they are probably better served breaking hard and hoping the money ball trends towards a pocket.

A better strategy that might fit along these lines would be to pass on a shot at the 1 ball and call push, then shooting the money ball near another pocket so they might have an opportunity for a short rack. This I could actually believe might make some sense. Or if you're getting spotted the 7 ball, pushing out and tying up the 8/9 so you are on a free roll to some degree. So I am all about creative strategies. But breaking poorly in rotation games doesn't benefit anyone. And if someone comes up with a theoretical argument, I challenge them to find examples of matches where it was advantageous, because I can point to many, many short racks that say break them hard and do your best.

tap, tap, tap. Just damn common sense.
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
10 ball safe break doesn't work. You'll lose badly if you try it against anyone capable of running racks. It's ok to play around with such ideas, maybe you'll learn something worthwhile, but it's not a new idea at all. The best players have tried this, none of them use it. Essentially you're throwing away a huge advantage, which is controlling the table.
 
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Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Pu^@y break. Pretty sure its illegal unless they're not using 3pt rule. I hate that crap.
I don't recall seeing the 3 point rule used at 10 ball.

In the video the break was illegal because only three object balls went to cushions. That's hard to catch if you are not prepared for it.

Also note that since the 1 ball has a good chance to go on the side, you have to make sure the 2 ball is going to end up on the foot cushion.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oluYzU2b8nY

Corey (of course) did this and it was pretty interesting.

I remember a match where he was using the bridge to break just to get under the opponent's skin. A lot of younger straight shooters can't kick because they only learned how to use a jump cue.

A guy like Corey can out move them. I won't say the opponent's name but I saw a guy raking 6 and 7 balls because he couldn't deal with it.
 

Poolhalljunkie

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Corey

Yeah, I'm not much of a fan of these type of Corey Deuel shenanigans. If Corey had focused on just working on his break rather than trying to figure out gimmicks... He would have won twice the amount of tournaments..


They didn’t change the break rules at tournaments because he was losing.
He kept Mika in his chair for most the finals of the U.S. Open that he won.
How is it a gimmick if it works?
 
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