how are ya'll doing in league ?

nsainfreek · Feb 4, 2014

The rule book also states that a regular shooting cue is "any standard cue designed to shoot the majority of shots in a pool game."

Our apa league won't let you switch cues to make a jump shot to avoid arguments whether or not their cue is designed for the majority of shots in pool. You could just put a phenolic tip on a playing cue and argue that is a regular cue so our LO doesn't allow it. A break cue is definitely not allowed to jump with.

I shoot with a z2 and cannot jump at all with it. I can, however, jump pretty well with a house cue. I just convinced my LO to allow switching to a house cue for jumping. I figure there can't be an argument that the cue is designed for the majority of pool shots. He allowed it but said headquarters was concerned about people planting fake house cues for jumping. They allowed it cause it was unlikely.

mcsock said:
APA you can not change cues. From the rule book
"Massé and jump shots are legal, when executed properly (see MASSÉ
SHOTS and JUMP SHOTS described in Definitions), but such shots
must be attempted using a regular shooting cue (see REGULAR
SHOOTING CUE described in Definitions). Players are not allowed to
break down their cues or switch to specialty cues (such as cues designed
for jumping and/or breaking) to attempt massé or jump shots."

I do not know about other leagues. Trying to bend the rules, you might be able to get away with it. I have been known to play with my break cue but never in league. If I started a match with it, I would in clear conscious have no problem using it for jumps etc. But I would never try to bend the rule to the point of playing with my player and claiming to just change to a different play cue and use my j/b. I

lorider · Feb 4, 2014

mcsock said:
APA you can not change cues. From the rule book
"Massé and jump shots are legal, when executed properly (see MASSÉ
SHOTS and JUMP SHOTS described in Definitions), but such shots
must be attempted using a regular shooting cue (see REGULAR
SHOOTING CUE described in Definitions). Players are not allowed to
break down their cues or switch to specialty cues (such as cues designed
for jumping and/or breaking) to attempt massé or jump shots."

I do not know about other leagues. Trying to bend the rules, you might be able to get away with it. I have been known to play with my break cue but never in league. If I started a match with it, I would in clear conscious have no problem using it for jumps etc. But I would never try to bend the rule to the point of playing with my player and claiming to just change to a different play cue and use my j/b. I

as dub said ...before i tried my method at nationals i would ask. as we all know rules are subject to how your lo interprets them.

i see your point bout switching to a break cue specifically for a jump shot and actually agree with you.. as i stated i continue using my break cue the rest of that inning....if i made a succesfull jump lol.

i am not afraid to experiment different things.... even during a match...as long as its legal.

i have played with a g10 tip ferrule combo for an entire match... and won . never miscued once... why i do it occasionaly is to reinforce my focus. when i find myself getting lazy or not paying attention or missing easy shots i grab that cue because it makes me pay attention to my fundamentals. if your stroke aint right or your tip chalked properly if you don't focus on where you are hitting the cue ball it will cost you.

lorider · Feb 4, 2014

justadub said:
I have asked my LO about this a few times, and he says its OK so long as its a full length cue. So I try it now and again. I get a few odd stares, cuz other than the 7 on my team, no one here tries it.

Made a couple of good hits, haven't pocketed one doing so yet.

If I ever go to Vegas, I'll make sure to ask someone official before attempting it, tho.

keep working at it dub. i never practice jumping...just resort to it when i see no alternative such as a kick or whatever.

justadub · Feb 4, 2014

mcsock said:
APA you can not change cues. From the rule book
"Massé and jump shots are legal, when executed properly (see MASSÉ
SHOTS and JUMP SHOTS described in Definitions), but such shots
must be attempted using a regular shooting cue (see REGULAR
SHOOTING CUE described in Definitions). Players are not allowed to
break down their cues or switch to specialty cues (such as cues designed
for jumping and/or breaking) to attempt massé or jump shots."

I do not know about other leagues. Trying to bend the rules, you might be able to get away with it. I have been known to play with my break cue but never in league. If I started a match with it, I would in clear conscious have no problem using it for jumps etc. But I would never try to bend the rule to the point of playing with my player and claiming to just change to a different play cue and use my j/b. I

I think that my LO is trying to simplify things. Meaning as long as its a full length cue, that's enough to satisfy him. That way people don't have to be able to tell the difference between a break/jump and a regular playing cue.

At least that's the only rationalization I can come up with.

I have asked him several different times, as has another player I know, in front if other players, and got the same response.

KRJ · Feb 4, 2014

BasementDweller said:
Yeah - that was too easy. Thanks for playing.

I see you are playing in the Illinois ACS Team event. I know the Indiana one is just a couple of weeks away and there are usually a few teams from the Chicago area. Any chance you will be making it to that one?

do they allow IL folks to play in it ??

mcsock · Feb 4, 2014

I would hope my local LO are following some guide line from the national office. I have never been one to bend rules. I might be able to argue the point with my LO, but why? If one jump is the difference in my winning or losing, I have other problems with my game that causes the loss. If a team I am on makes nationals, I know I will not have to alter my game because of twisting of the rules.
My break cue has a samsari tip not phenolic and really I like the way it plays, just the funny sound it makes when using it as a play cue drive me nuts. Plus, I do not want to deal with posible cheating allegations.
Guess it comes down to the individual and your view of the "spirit of the game"

KRJ · Feb 4, 2014

sjb said:
I play with my Carmeli on my in-house BCA Scratch league, but generally go to my $59 Players sneaky when I play APA, given some of the dives we travel to. Oh, both teams finished 1st place last sessions. I didn't lose any APA matches (10-0). Funny, considering I wasn't using the high $ custom to make me play better. :wink:

Ha. Me too. I use my Willie Hoppe Pro model with OB shaft at league with 9 foot GC tables, and use my Schmelke cue on the bar box... no LD required for the box.... they still have the heavy cue ball there, and it's seems easier for me to shoot with a standard shaft than an LD for some reason.... could be mental, who knows for sure

KRJ · Feb 4, 2014

justadub said:
I think that my LO is trying to simplify things. Meaning as long as its a full length cue, that's enough to satisfy him. That way people don't have to be able to tell the difference between a break/jump and a regular playing cue.

At least that's the only rationalization I can come up with.

I have asked him several different times, as has another player I know, in front if other players, and got the same response.

I thought apa folks were not allowed to JUMP or only a higher ranked players could... that still true ??

Banks · Feb 4, 2014

ChicagoRJ said:
I thought apa folks were not allowed to kick or only a higher ranked players could... that still true ??

Do you mean jump? I don't think I've heard of any rules for either. Jump cues are allowed in the masters league, but a full cue jump is allowed in both. If there have been any rules like that, they were either set by the location or as a local by-law.

DAVE_M · Feb 4, 2014

Went to our APA 8-ball match tonight. Our captain called right before the start and said we had a bye week. So I ended up playing the 8ball ghost and breaking a few racks with my new break shaft.

A guy from another team said he wanted to play me some, but I told him I was leaving. He insisted, so I played one game. He racked, I snapped the 8 on the break, unscrewed my cue, and went home

mcsock · Feb 4, 2014

DAVE_M said:
Went to our APA 8-ball match tonight. Our captain called right before the start and said we had a bye week. So I ended up playing the 8ball ghost and breaking a few racks with my new break shaft.

A guy from another team said he wanted to play me some, but I told him I was leaving. He insisted, so I played one game. He racked, I snapped the 8 on the break, unscrewed my cue, and went home

Of the 4 8b on the snap to me is the hardest of 8b and 9b snap. 8b and 9b break and run
Nice work

DAVE_M · Feb 4, 2014

mcsock said:
Of the 4 8b on the snap to me is the hardest of 8b and 9b snap. 8b and 9b break and run
Nice work

You really think so? I have a bunch of patches for 8 on the break and countless trophies from in house league. Tonight, I had already put my break cue away, so I broke from the 2nd diamond and hit the 2nd ball with low inside. The cue ball went three rails and out and the 8 rolled right into the side pocket.

lorider · Feb 4, 2014

i played in my apa 8 ball travel league tonight.

it was one of my better nights. i faced another 5 and won 4-0 in 9 innings. 3 of those innings ended in defensive shots by me.

i am on a roll now... winning my last 3 in a row in 8 ball. ...after starting the session 0-3.

in 9 ball i am 1-2.

looking forward to napa saturday. i may practice some here at the house the next few. days. gotta look up how i am doing in that league. don't think its nothing to brag about...almost every body is tough in that league.

justadub · Feb 5, 2014

I had a pretty good night tonight in my APA 8-ball league. I beat one of the better SL6's in our division, 4-2.

Can't tell you the innings, cuz I haven't really looked at the scoresheet that closely, but I know they are gonna be on the high side (despite my first rack'n run in league play). He started playing a bunch of safeties on me, which I was fortunate to be able to kick out of (and jumped once, with my jump/break, heh heh, didn't make the ball, which annoyed me, even tho it was most of the table length on a 9 footer, safe hit at least).

He didn't play as well as he is capable of, and I played pretty well for me, so the equalizer worked well in this instance.

Good start for my 8-ball session.

lorider · Feb 5, 2014

justadub said:
I had a pretty good night tonight in my APA 8-ball league. I beat one of the better SL6's in our division, 4-2.

Can't tell you the innings, cuz I haven't really looked at the scoresheet that closely, but I know they are gonna be on the high side (despite my first rack'n run in league play). He started playing a bunch of safeties on me, which I was fortunate to be able to kick out of (and jumped once, with my jump/break, heh heh, didn't make the ball, which annoyed me, even tho it was most of the table length on a 9 footer, safe hit at least).

He didn't play as well as he is capable of, and I played pretty well for me, so the equalizer worked well in this instance.

Good start for my 8-ball session.

good shootin dub.:thumbup:

never had to jump last night./ i never hooked myself and he never played safe.

most of the time i don't think about the number of innings. i just ask whenever the match seems a lil long or short just to be curious.

Matt · Feb 5, 2014

DAVE_M said:
You really think so? I have a bunch of patches for 8 on the break and countless trophies from in house league. Tonight, I had already put my break cue away, so I broke from the 2nd diamond and hit the 2nd ball with low inside. The cue ball went three rails and out and the 8 rolled right into the side pocket.

Are we talking about a bar box or 9 footer? I would also say that the 8 on the snap is the least common of the 4 "achievements", but it may be more common on a bar box. On a 9 foot table, I prefer breaking on the head ball over the 2nd ball break because it allows me to control the cue ball and spreads the rack better, increasing my chances of running out or controlling the rack. On a 9 footer, the 2nd ball break tends to cluster a bunch of balls together on one side of the table. For me, the benefits of the head ball break outweigh the increased chance of making the 8 on the second ball break.

More and more tournaments are throwing out or modifying the golden break rules anyways, so maybe it's only a matter of time before the APA does as well. This discussion has been on here before, and the general consensus was that, although there is some skill involved in increasing your chances, it is primarily a luck shot based on the rack and the way the balls collide on the break. I've never found it very satisfying to win a game with an 8 or 9 on the snap; usually it's followed by an apologetic look to my opponent.

DAVE_M · Feb 5, 2014

Matt said:
Are we talking about a bar box or 9 footer? I would also say that the 8 on the snap is the least common of the 4 "achievements", but it may be more common on a bar box. On a 9 foot table, I prefer breaking on the head ball over the 2nd ball break because it allows me to control the cue ball and spreads the rack better, increasing my chances of running out or controlling the rack. On a 9 footer, the 2nd ball break tends to cluster a bunch of balls together on one side of the table. For me, the benefits of the head ball break outweigh the increased chance of making the 8 on the second ball break.

More and more tournaments are throwing out or modifying the golden break rules anyways, so maybe it's only a matter of time before the APA does as well. This discussion has been on here before, and the general consensus was that, although there is some skill involved in increasing your chances, it is primarily a luck shot based on the rack and the way the balls collide on the break. I've never found it very satisfying to win a game with an 8 or 9 on the snap; usually it's followed by an apologetic look to my opponent.

Diamond Barbox

Every table out here, with the exception of one bar (Valley's), has Diamond 7ft tables. I've made the 8 on the break at least 3 times so far this session. I don't have any 8-ball break and runs this session and no 9 on the snaps, but I do have a 9-ball break and run this session. Making the 9 on the break is pointless in APA, but the 8 on the break is an automatic win. If I could, I'd do it every game and be done for the night lol.

mcsock · Feb 5, 2014

Matt said:
Are we talking about a bar box or 9 footer? I would also say that the 8 on the snap is the least common of the 4 "achievements", but it may be more common on a bar box. On a 9 foot table, I prefer breaking on the head ball over the 2nd ball break because it allows me to control the cue ball and spreads the rack better, increasing my chances of running out or controlling the rack. On a 9 footer, the 2nd ball break tends to cluster a bunch of balls together on one side of the table. For me, the benefits of the head ball break outweigh the increased chance of making the 8 on the second ball break.

I do not play on bar boxes, both my apa leagues are in house leagues on 9ft tables. Only time I see a bar box is during playoffs. Only other thing I play regularly is a Sr. event on Wed. but on 9ft tables also. When we play 8b if pocketed on the break it is just spotted anyway. I really am not sure how easy/hard it would be to snap the 8b on a bar box. I do want my cue ball in play not barried behind cluster balls so I tend to hit head ball also.

JBB2388 · Feb 5, 2014

DAVE_M said:
Every table out here, with the exception of one bar (Valley's), has Diamond 7ft tables.

Wish that was the case here. Most of the places we play have coin-op 7 footers that play like crap. Even our home table. Its better than most because the guy that owns it is on our team and we maintain it better than most places do but its still just mediocre. He just had the cloth and cushions replaced a few weeks ago.

As far as this week goes we won our match last night against the current first place team. Took 4 of the 5 matches. Won mine 5-2 against a SL5. Need to string a bunch of wins together.

DAVE_M · Feb 5, 2014

JBB2388 said:
Wish that was the case here. Most of the places we play have coin-op 7 footers that play like crap. Even our home table. Its better than most because the guy that owns it is on our team and we maintain it better than most places do but its still just mediocre. He just had the cloth and cushions replaced a few weeks ago.

As far as this week goes we won our match last night against the current first place team. Took 4 of the 5 matches. Won mine 5-2 against a SL5. Need to string a bunch of wins together.

Where we play out of, the bar owner doesn't own the tables; Our team captain does. He has 6 Diamond Red Label 7ft tables and 2 Diamond Blue Label 7ft tables in the bar. He also owns 4 Diamond Blue Label 7ft tables in other bars in town. There is another bar, a player owns, right outside of town with 6 Diamond Red Label 7ft tables in the bar.

The only place, we have to play in our division, with Valley barboxes is a Daiquiris shop. It's run down, trashy, carpet floors, and beat to hell Valley's that I wouldn't even bring my cue in to play on. Whenever we go there, I use a beat up cue or a house cue.

how are ya'll doing in league ?

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