Fine I'll bite. I should say that what I meant to make clear is my main point in advocating a firmer 'grip' is to keep a firmer wrist, exerting only enough pressure on the cue to keep control of it, effectively making your wrist/hand part of the pendulum. I think everything Fran has said is right.
A pendulum stroke actually works easier with a loose grip. Once you start tightening muscles, such as the forearm to control a tighter grip, you are more likely to actually put the cue off line a little. If you are going off line with a loose grip, you were not on the correct line to start with.
Why don't you ask Judd Trump or Ronnie O'Sullivan how important it is to stay loose with their grip? Ronnie states quite clearly that when he takes on a a firm shot he increases his grip firmness before he increases his stroke seed.
When I say firm, I mean the rigidity of your hand/wrist, so that if someone were to walk up and try to pry your hand *open* or manipulate your wrist, it would be hard to do. If the stroke is truly coming from your elbow, you can can keep your grip/wrist much stiffer than if you're piston stroking before you tend to want to pull the cue off line. If you can't power a ball in a straight line with a firmer-wristed pendulum stroke, part of your setup may be out of line and/or and you're wanting to pronate/supinate your forearm a bit, twisting the cue trying to keep it in line.
The problem with an overly loose grip is that it makes your wrist want to flop. If you let your wrist hinge freely as your elbow moves, it will cause your hand travel less since your wrist will hinge forward on the backswing, and backward on the forward stroke, limiting the effectiveness of the 'pendulum'.
The weight of the cue, or the diameter of the tip has zero correlation to using a pendulum stroke. A pendulum stroke will not have a liner cueing action in all three axis to start with. The fact that you are trying to keep the cue level with the table at all times states that you are not using a pendulum stroke properly to start with.
The OP was trying to transition to a stroke with absolutely no elbow drop which is rare in pool. Pool cues generally are back heavy and usually heavier overall compared to snooker cues so can sometimes benefit from some degree of elbow drop, many players preferring to partly 'release' rather than 'drive' their cue into the CB at contact.
As Matt asked the OP, there is a question of whether a pool player needs a 'pure' pendulum stroke. If you stand with your hips facing slightly away from the table the way most pool players do, you have will have room for your backswing and more lift on the backswing, so a looser grip and hint of elbow drop hurts nothing because as long as you bring the cue straight back, have a smooth transition, and do not move your body, the cue's own weight will also tend to help go forward the same way it came back, usually with plenty of power. If you stand more square to the table and low, your range of motion for your stroke *will* shorten up unless you leave a lot of play in your wrist and/or let your elbow move.
As I said, if you let your wrist hinge freely with a pure pendulum stroke, it will be working *against* the effectiveness of the pendulum (your forearm) whereas a stiff wrist adds to the length of the pendulum.
Now, if you grip firmly and try to get power by flexing your wrist forwards as you stroke, you end up with a double-hinge, but that is incredibly difficult to deliver in a straight line, and you're no longer swinging just from your elbow, and this will result in all manner of problems for getting a straight cue. Is this the idea you're criticizing? Because I see players do this and it is a recipe for disaster as far as cuing straight, also with hitting a good tip or two higher than you meant to.
If you are reaching back your shoulder and elbow, you aren't using a pendulum stroke. If you do use a pendulum stroke, then the cue goes back, and then goes forward on the exact same line it went back on. Very precise way of cuing. Accomplished best with a loose grip which keeps everything on line.
I mean that when I set up for the shot, I get my elbow and shoulder back from the ball in line over the cue, then on the stroke only my elbow moves. I'm a firm believer in the pendulum stroke. I'm just not a firm believer in any play in your hand/wrist that is not absolutely necessary, most of which you can eliminate with a proper stance.
Dropping your elbow doesn't make your arm longer, and not dropping it doesn't make it any shorter.
Your arm? No. It does however change effective stroking length. If you let your elbow raise/lower (piston stroke) for the amount you extend your elbow you can pull the tip back from the ball further than if your elbow doesn't move.
A pendulum stroke's range of cue motion depends on your forearm length, grip, and how much you'll flex your wrist. My advocacy here is that if you are truly low to the table with your hips facing the table, keeping a wrist firm enough that it moves as one with your forearm will deliver more consistent and accurate results up to full power shots, which means a firm enough hand that will not come open or shift during the stroke, but not pressing inward more than necessary either. Too loose or too tight will cause the cue to hop in your bridge on a power shot.
Which would be the pendulum stroke, yet you have also stated that it is less precise unless one grips the cue firmer.
Again what I should have clarified, not grip the cue *tighter*... Keep your grip (hand) firmer so there is less play, less moving parts between your elbow and the cue. And as Ronnie O'Sullivan points out, the firmer the cue is joined to your arm, the more of your arm's mass is effectively added to the cue which can help add power without adding speed beyond what you can control.
The size of the table has nothing to do with the results of a pendulum stroke. ... Again, not true. You can anything with a pendulum stroke that you can do with an elbow drop. The balls don't know or care what type of stroke you used. They only care where they were hit, at what angle of approach, and what speed.
My point here was that small tables = more awkward cuing spots (they're more crowded with more of the playing area near a rail) so you're more often elevating and/or reaching out away from your body. When I said 'let your elbow go free' I meant getting it out from behind your head and over away from you body, I certainly don't recommend letting it move on the shot when you're cuing away from your body. If anything, these awkward cuing spots PROVE how effective freezing your elbow's position actually is, difficult to hit shots dropping your elbow when you're reaching away from body. What I was trying explain was in these situations I have to give up keeping a firm wrist in some instances, and even sometimes change up my grip entirely depending on whether the situation calls for accuracy or getting more action out of the ball.
OP's question was about a loose grip with a pure pendulum stroke and I'm just trying to explain my own reasoning behind which I stay firmer in the wrist when I can get low and in line, and why I have to adapt when I have to elevate and reach away from my body so he should keep experimenting.
Seriously? Is Efren in your belly?
Nah, I just have a dependable 15-ball break, averaging 2-3 balls down with good spread.
Assuming the 15 isn't going to be pocketed on the break, the average point value of the remaining 14 balls is 7.5. With 2-3 balls on the break I start off with 15-22 points, getting to 61 is just going to happen unless there are multiple problem balls. Then the ghost probably gets the game. If I were Efren, I'd make 61 *every* time. Note if I purposely break just to spread them and rather than pocket on the break and try to get all 15 (not just to 61) in rotation, my success rate drops to 1:3 or 1:4... which is my preferred practice method. But if I'm practicing my break power and pocketing multiple balls on the break, getting 61 is about a coin toss, maybe a little in my favor.
