John Barton us open ban

iusedtoberich · May 2, 2019

Also in your FB video you had a link to an older one I saw, where you asked a muscle guy wearing a superman shirt to try to rip off the zippers on your case, and on an Acme case. The guy ripped off the zipper ON YOUR CASE just as easily as the Acme case. Then you gave him a new JB case, and said try this one, and that one was indeed harder and he could not rip it off. And then you spun that as to say, well we at JB are always improving, and this zipper of ours you easily ripped off is no longer on our cases. Well that may be the case, but how many years DID you use that zipper? And so what if Acme is using a similar strength zipper. If it was good enough for your cases for X years, then its good enough for Acme.

Hell, about every bag I have from luggage to gym bags to old pool cue cases, some of the zippers fail. Great on you to improve them, but its par for the course in the entire zipper industry for them to eventually fail.

We don't need you to look out for us with zipper quality, or protection from retail price abuse. We can take care of ourselves. Thank you.

iusedtoberich · May 2, 2019

And the whole notion of "selling a lower cost product and claiming it is as good as a higher cost product" being wrong is ridiculous!

Every TV commercial does this!

Do you remember I think in the late 1990's Lexus had a commercial with a ball bearing riding in the gap of all of their body panels like a roller coaster, and fitting perfectly? Lexus used that to show their quality and attention to detail was highest.

THEN, Nissan who had just released the Altima model for $13,000, did the EXACT same thing. They were claiming their 13k Altima was the same quality as the 50K Lexus! Did Toyota sue Nissan?

Your whole argument doesn't make any sense.

SJpilot · May 2, 2019

I appreciate when a product is being constantly refined. That counts even more with zippers and fasteners. Nothing irritates me more than a 300 dollar bag that's useless to me now because they saved 5 bucks on zippers, just charge me 305 and give me the good ones.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

iusedtoberich · May 2, 2019

SJpilot said:
I appreciate when a product is being constantly refined. That counts even more with zippers and fasteners. Nothing irritates me more than a 300 dollar bag that's useless to me now because they saved 5 bucks on zippers, just charge me 305 and give me the good ones.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

In the consumer industry, its usually more like a 3:1 ratio. So if the better zipper cost the manufacturer $5 extra, the price increase to the end consumer is more like $15.

SJpilot · May 3, 2019

iusedtoberich said:
In the consumer industry, its usually more like a 3:1 ratio. So if the better zipper cost the manufacturer $5 extra, the price increase to the end consumer is more like $15.

Oh screw it then

HawaiianEye · May 3, 2019

iusedtoberich said:
And the whole notion of "selling a lower cost product and claiming it is as good as a higher cost product" being wrong is ridiculous!

Every TV commercial does this!

Do you remember I think in the late 1990's Lexus had a commercial with a ball bearing riding in the gap of all of their body panels like a roller coaster, and fitting perfectly? Lexus used that to show their quality and attention to detail was highest.

THEN, Nissan who had just released the Altima model for $13,000, did the EXACT same thing. They were claiming their 13k Altima was the same quality as the 50K Lexus! Did Toyota sue Nissan?

Your whole argument doesn't make any sense.

And go to any store in the world where they sell jewelry and you'll see signs everywhere saying 30%, 40%, 50%, etc...off....everyday of the week all year long.

The shit is never worth what they claim the "original" price is. It is marked up and then marketed as being on sale, so you will think you are getting a deal.

garczar · May 3, 2019

HawaiianEye said:
And go to any store in the world where they sell jewelry and you'll see signs everywhere saying 30%, 40%, 50%, etc...off....everyday of the week all year long.

The shit is never worth what they claim the "original" price is. It is marked up and then marketed as being on sale, so you will think you are getting a deal.

The Pocket Fisherman has been on sale for the low,low price of $19.99 for 30 years.

Shawn Armstrong · May 3, 2019

garczar said:
The Pocket Fisherman has been on sale for the low,low price of $19.99 for 30 years.

If anyone thinks that John is acting in anyone's best interests but his own, you don't know John. He's decided to go full loon again, and is now grasping at straws for justification.

Ask yourself this. Let's say two casemakers were to get into some internet beef, or trade show altercation. And I gave you 2 to 1 odds on your money that you had to guess one of the participants. Who's your first guess? The guy is a drama magnet.

GoldCrown · May 3, 2019

Hi. This is the next post. Feel free to add to it.

garczar · May 3, 2019

Shawn Armstrong said:
If anyone thinks that John is acting in anyone's best interests but his own, you don't know John. He's decided to go full loon again, and is now grasping at straws for justification.

Ask yourself this. Let's say two casemakers were to get into some internet beef, or trade show altercation. And I gave you 2 to 1 odds on your money that you had to guess one of the participants. Who's your first guess? The guy is a drama magnet.

True dat. His cases also give those Wile E. Coyote cases the 5-ball, at least.

justadub · May 3, 2019

cardiac kid said:
In the late 80's and early 90's, I worked for the B & W / Adcom / Tandberg rep firm in New England. Did you happen to work for "Cookin"?

Lyn

Late 80's till a few years ago I managed RadioShacks in central and eastern Maine

Shawn Armstrong · May 3, 2019

garczar said:
True dat. His cases also give those Wile E. Coyote cases the 5-ball, at least.

That depends on perspective. I have never had a case with broken zippers. I also respect my personal property, so a standard tube case has worked fine for me. I have never needed my cues snugly held by my case so that I can open it upside down and shake it. I don't twist the zipper tags. And I don't go full Star Wars kid in swinging a case around my head.

So, if you see that value in his cases, more power to you. I don't. I see a guy filling a niche, which is fine. But to say he builds a better case than brand X is purely opinion, and not fact. A case, by design, is made to hold a cue. That's all. I have never needed any of his protective features, and for me, they hamper what I feel makes a good case. But again, that's my opinion. Not everyone likes chocolate ice cream. John builds a great case. So does Acme. I wish he'd spend more time just building his product and letting his quality sell itself, than these stupid tirades that just had to his legacy of lunacy.

garczar · May 3, 2019

Shawn Armstrong said:
That depends on perspective. I have never had a case with broken zippers. I also respect my personal property, so a standard tube case has worked fine for me. I have never needed my cues snugly held by my case so that I can open it upside down and shake it. I don't twist the zipper tags. And I don't go full Star Wars kid in swinging a case around my head.

So, if you see that value in his cases, more power to you. I don't. I see a guy filling a niche, which is fine. But to say he builds a better case than brand X is purely opinion, and not fact. A case, by design, is made to hold a cue. That's all. I have never needed any of his protective features, and for me, they hamper what I feel makes a good case. But again, that's my opinion. Not everyone likes chocolate ice cream. John builds a great case. So does Acme. I wish he'd spend more time just building his product and letting his quality sell itself, than these stupid tirades that just had to his legacy of lunacy.

No argument here. My day-to-day case right now is a $100 J&J. It works perfectly. When i need a 3/6 or a 4/8 i'll get a JB.

jeremy8000 · May 3, 2019

Should John have been thrown out of the Open and barred from attending the APA event? Well, if he truthfully physically assaulted another player/vendor/attendee, absolutely. But is there any evidence to that effect. It is likely that there is surveillance video footage that could expose the truth, one way or the other. If not, are there witnesses?

Obviously the coordinators of the Open were put in a difficult position, and made a judgement expediently under the need to put it to rest, lest it potentially develop into something that could further disrupt the desired prestige, focus, and reputation of the Open. While I haven't read all 16 pages of this thread, wasn't at the event, and don't know all of the information with which the Open was presented, it certainly appears to me that they could have handled this in a way that better served everyone involved.

In my view, the fair and appropriate action by the Open would have been to (1) express concern and thank Mike for his report, (2) let him know that without evidence or uncontroverted witness accounts, they couldn't take action based solely on his assertion, and (3) suggest that if he were asserting that John had physically assaulted him it would be the proper (and socially responsible) action to engage the police, in efforts to protect himself and others from the alleged potential for further risk of physical harm, on the filing of which they could make a determination of what, if any action, needed to be taken with regards to the accused.

With or without prompting, Mike's electing not to file a police report raises a rather large red flag indicating ulterior motivation. Going solely to the Open clearly served his financial interests by leading to the removal of a business competitor whose vocal efforts were actively detracting from his sales and creating disillusionment of his advertising efforts, doing little to deter the alleged threat.

Alternatively, they could have simply removed both Mike and John with the explanation being that, as there was enough conflict between the two that one had approached the Open about it, it was in the best interests of the whole of the Open and its participants/attendees that they be removed. This holds even more true for APA, who had the benefit of additional time to consider options.

DelawareDogs · May 3, 2019

garczar said:
No argument here. My day-to-day case right now is a $100 J&J. It works perfectly. When i need a 3/6 or a 4/8 i'll get a JB.

At the end of the day, isn't an item's value equivalent to what consumers are willing to pay for it?

Barton makes a good, cool product. That's an opinion. Is it a product that a LOT of pool players are using, and have good reviews on? That's a fact. Is this Acme stuff clearly a sell out version? That's for everyone to draw their own conclusions.

I don't pay much attention to what he says or does if it's not about his product, but that's just me.

- D-D>>> proud JB owner

ShootingArts · May 3, 2019

nothing presented here

jeremy8000 said:
Should John have been thrown out of the Open and barred from attending the APA event? Well, if he truthfully physically assaulted another player/vendor/attendee, absolutely. But is there any evidence to that effect. It is likely that there is surveillance video footage that could expose the truth, one way or the other. If not, are there witnesses?

Obviously the coordinators of the Open were put in a difficult position, and made a judgement expediently under the need to put it to rest, lest it potentially develop into something that could further disrupt the desired prestige, focus, and reputation of the Open. While I haven't read all 16 pages of this thread, wasn't at the event, and don't know all of the information with which the Open was presented, it certainly appears to me that they could have handled this in a way that better served everyone involved.

In my view, the fair and appropriate action by the Open would have been to (1) express concern and thank Mike for his report, (2) let him know that without evidence or uncontroverted witness accounts, they couldn't take action based solely on his assertion, and (3) suggest that if he were asserting that John had physically assaulted him it would be the proper (and socially responsible) action to engage the police, in efforts to protect himself and others from the alleged potential for further risk of physical harm, on the filing of which they could make a determination of what, if any action, needed to be taken with regards to the accused.

With or without prompting, Mike's electing not to file a police report raises a rather large red flag indicating ulterior motivation. Going solely to the Open clearly served his financial interests by leading to the removal of a business competitor whose vocal efforts were actively detracting from his sales and creating disillusionment of his advertising efforts, doing little to deter the alleged threat.

Alternatively, they could have simply removed both Mike and John with the explanation being that, as there was enough conflict between the two that one had approached the Open about it, it was in the best interests of the whole of the Open and its participants/attendees that they be removed. This holds even more true for APA, who had the benefit of additional time to consider options.

Your post makes a lot of sense. Nothing at all has been presented here. However, I suspect the Open did not take action without either physical evidence or witnesses to the act. There is also the question of where the incident took place even if just a shouting match. Did John seek out Mike or vice versa? If it happened at one or the other's booth then the one coming to the other's location is well on his way to being in the wrong. Every incident on my business property went in my favor when the law arrived.

The immediate banning from that event and the next week's event makes me think that there was more to the incident than has been posted here. Banning of someone a week in advance seems odd and worth noting that john was banned from the APA event, not JB Cases. The business can be there, john can't. That speaks pretty loudly!

I think when and if we hear the other side of the story the bannings will seem most reasonable. I am sure john has the dubious distinction of being the most banned member of AZB!

Hu

iusedtoberich · May 3, 2019

The accuser did file a police report. That is JB’s other main contention (besides the case quality/price drama), that the accuser filed a FALSE police report.

garczar · May 3, 2019

DelawareDogs said:
At the end of the day, isn't an item's value equivalent to what consumers are willing to pay for it?

Barton makes a good, cool product. That's an opinion. Is it a product that a LOT of pool players are using, and have good reviews on? That's a fact. Is this Acme stuff clearly a sell out version? That's for everyone to draw their own conclusions.

I don't pay much attention to what he says or does if it's not about his product, but that's just me.

- D-D>>> proud JB owner

I live 90 miles from JB's place in OKC. I see his cases EVERY day. They are built like tanks. Probably over-built but that's why they sell like hotcakes. I've seen him at a LOT of events and never seen an incident of any kind. Could NOT care less what transpired(or not) in Vegas. My nxt case WILL be a JB.

JB Cases · May 3, 2019

Shawn Armstrong said:
Says the man on his third name change.....

So you're saying that name changed mean a person is not honest? That's amazing logic there.

Born John Collins. Never knew my biological father.

Somehow I was enrolled in school as John Kaplan and that's who I was until the eighth grade when the department of human services obtained my birth certificate and it said John Collins on it. So I became John Collins from that point on.

When I was getting married my then fiance, a Barton, didn't want to change her name since she was an only child and wanted to continue her family's name.

I said I didn't really care about Collins and would take her name. That's what I did. And when we got divorced I just kept it.

So sorry to disappoint you but nothing nefarious or dishonest with the name changes. Same social security number all my life. The FBI can find me easily any time they need to.

But hey throw shade where you think you can. That's the nature of people like you. I welcome the opportunity to get more time to talk to people through the platform that folks like you provide for me.

JB Cases · May 3, 2019

iusedtoberich said:
The accuser did file a police report. That is JB’s other main contention (besides the case quality/price drama), that the accuser filed a FALSE police report.

Correct. But it is just a report. I have not been arrested, charged or ticketed. In fact when the security at Mandalay Bay called the police and said that they had detained me the police said they weren't going to come over for this.

I have been to the police station twice voluntarily and they didn't bother to talk to me or detain me in any way.

Two of these shows took the proper course of action in my opinion and said to me have an uneventful show.

The other two erred in my opinion on the side of caution but only because of a fairy tale told to them.

John Barton us open ban

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