Go Back   AzBilliards.com > Products Talk > Ask The Cuemaker
Reload this Page Cue woods for the future
Reply
Page 1 of 3 1 23
 
Share Thread Tools Rate Thread
Cue woods for the future
Old
  (#1)
Kim Bye
AzB Silver Member
Kim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond repute
 
Kim Bye's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,035
vCash: 500
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Oslo
   
Cue woods for the future - 08-07-2018, 03:45 PM

The updates to CITES now involve everything in the Dalbergia genus, so is all ebony in the Diospyros genus and mahogany in the Swietenia genus.
All together that`s a pretty large chuck of what traditionally has been thought of as top quality woods for cue building.
Deep red/brown woods and most importantly black woods now seems to be few and far between.
There are plenty of woods to choose from, but many of the woods now left for us to use, I suspect wouldnt be used that much if availability and regulations where not an issue.
I have ordered alot of different woods now that I wouldn`t really order if the traditional stuff was available and legal.
I just turned some Katalox, wich I guess is about the darkest of the woods available now (I guess you can count in Macassar Ebony and Ceylon Ebony, but they are more brown than black...)
Katalox is pretty to look at, but really dense (Janka hardness of 3660lb/f) and it dulls cutter blades alot faster than African Blackwood or Ebony.
I turned some Pau Ferro too and it can be quite pretty, but it`s more light brown and has none of the deep red in it, that makes Cocobolo or Brazilian Rosewood so attractive. Pau Rosa has a more honey toned brown and is quite pleasant to look at and machines, glues and takes a finish well.
I`m sure there are lots of woods out there to try, but what do you guys that have been around for a long time think and what`s the plan for the Ebony, African Blackwood and Rosewoods you guys sure have in stock?



Cold silence
has a tendency
to atrophy any
sense of compassion
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#2)
greyghost
exile
greyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond repute
 
greyghost's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 7,106
vCash: 500
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Join Date: Oct 2005
   
08-07-2018, 05:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim Bye View Post
The updates to CITES now involve everything in the Dalbergia genus, so is all ebony in the Diospyros genus and mahogany in the Swietenia genus.
All together that`s a pretty large chuck of what traditionally has been thought of as top quality woods for cue building.
Deep red/brown woods and most importantly black woods now seems to be few and far between.
There are plenty of woods to choose from, but many of the woods now left for us to use, I suspect wouldnt be used that much if availability and regulations where not an issue.
I have ordered alot of different woods now that I wouldn`t really order if the traditional stuff was available and legal.
I just turned some Katalox, wich I guess is about the darkest of the woods available now (I guess you can count in Macassar Ebony and Ceylon Ebony, but they are more brown than black...)
Katalox is pretty to look at, but really dense (Janka hardness of 3660lb/f) and it dulls cutter blades alot faster than African Blackwood or Ebony.
I turned some Pau Ferro too and it can be quite pretty, but it`s more light brown and has none of the deep red in it, that makes Cocobolo or Brazilian Rosewood so attractive. Pau Rosa has a more honey toned brown and is quite pleasant to look at and machines, glues and takes a finish well.
I`m sure there are lots of woods out there to try, but what do you guys that have been around for a long time think and what`s the plan for the Ebony, African Blackwood and Rosewoods you guys sure have in stock?


Well walnut plays better and is denser than mahogany more often than not (true mahogany). Tho itís not as ďstraightĒ a wood.....but neither is much of dalbergia genus.

Personally I donít give one dam thereís good nuff wood here in America....

Letís all stop for a second and thank the guitar making dumbasses like Taylor.....and folks freak out over elephants hell they were dropping dozens of trees just to get one keg black one and would let the rest rot due to.....dogma.

Come meet me in Florida when it cools down lll weíll drop some ironwoods!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#3)
HQueen
AzB Silver Member
HQueen has a reputation beyond reputeHQueen has a reputation beyond reputeHQueen has a reputation beyond reputeHQueen has a reputation beyond reputeHQueen has a reputation beyond reputeHQueen has a reputation beyond reputeHQueen has a reputation beyond reputeHQueen has a reputation beyond reputeHQueen has a reputation beyond reputeHQueen has a reputation beyond reputeHQueen has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 131
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
   
08-07-2018, 08:18 PM

Interesting points to be sure. I have always been a believer in buying more wood even if funds barely agree with me. Some of the wood I bought just 12 years ago has doubled and even tripled in value. Good wood is a good investment. It is certainly appreciating at a better rate than money in the bank.
Sapele is a relative of mahogany and is readily available. Some with very nice quilted or blistered figure. I have a decent amount of it, some pieces are denser than others.
Iím planning to be making cues for years to come. Therefore I am acquiring more wood as I find great quality and deals to be had. Theyíre out there.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#4)
JoeyInCali
AzB Silver Member

JoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond repute
 
JoeyInCali's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 23,208
vCash: 4400
iTrader: 77 / 100%
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: OC, California
   
08-07-2018, 08:40 PM

I give up.
I'm selling all my Brazilian rosewood, ebony, Coco, bubinga, goncalo, kingwood and Pau ferro for $1 per pound.
Locally.

Last edited by JoeyInCali; 08-07-2018 at 08:46 PM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#5)
greyghost
exile
greyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond repute
 
greyghost's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 7,106
vCash: 500
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Join Date: Oct 2005
   
08-07-2018, 08:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyInCali View Post
I give up.
I'm selling all my Brazilian rosewood, ebony, Coco, bubinga, goncalo, kingwood and Pau ferro for $1 per pound.


Can I get a qp? Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#6)
CuesDirectly
AzB Silver Member

CuesDirectly has a reputation beyond reputeCuesDirectly has a reputation beyond reputeCuesDirectly has a reputation beyond reputeCuesDirectly has a reputation beyond reputeCuesDirectly has a reputation beyond reputeCuesDirectly has a reputation beyond reputeCuesDirectly has a reputation beyond reputeCuesDirectly has a reputation beyond reputeCuesDirectly has a reputation beyond reputeCuesDirectly has a reputation beyond reputeCuesDirectly has a reputation beyond repute
 
CuesDirectly's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 795
vCash: 500
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Are-We-Gone (Oregon)
   
08-08-2018, 05:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyInCali View Post
I give up.
I'm selling all my Brazilian rosewood, ebony, Coco, bubinga, goncalo, kingwood and Pau ferro for $1 per pound.
Locally.

Sounds great, I am on the I-5 now doing 140 mph, be there in a few more hours.




----------------------------------------------



David Brainard, custom Cuemaker
My website is CuesDirectly.com
Email, CuesDirectly@gmail.com
Facebook under both names
503 930-7776 5am -5pm West Coast time
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#7)
MJB
AzB Silver Member
MJB has a reputation beyond reputeMJB has a reputation beyond reputeMJB has a reputation beyond reputeMJB has a reputation beyond reputeMJB has a reputation beyond reputeMJB has a reputation beyond reputeMJB has a reputation beyond reputeMJB has a reputation beyond reputeMJB has a reputation beyond reputeMJB has a reputation beyond reputeMJB has a reputation beyond repute
 
MJB's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 183
vCash: 500
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Michigan
   
08-08-2018, 06:41 AM

Will we ever see the sneaky nicknames for woods like the cue flippers came up with for ivory?

How about a cue be advertised as having ebxxy points, or a "good stuff" forearm?
  
Reply With Quote
Taylor Guitar and Ebony
Old
  (#8)
QMAKER
LIVE FREE OR DIE
QMAKER has a reputation beyond reputeQMAKER has a reputation beyond reputeQMAKER has a reputation beyond reputeQMAKER has a reputation beyond reputeQMAKER has a reputation beyond reputeQMAKER has a reputation beyond reputeQMAKER has a reputation beyond reputeQMAKER has a reputation beyond reputeQMAKER has a reputation beyond reputeQMAKER has a reputation beyond reputeQMAKER has a reputation beyond repute
 
QMAKER's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,450
vCash: 2900
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Covina California
   
Taylor Guitar and Ebony - 08-08-2018, 10:27 AM

"Letís all stop for a second and thank the guitar making dumbasses like Taylor.....and folks freak out over elephants hell they were dropping dozens of trees just to get one keg black one and would let the rest rot due to.....dogma."


In regards to Taylor (who has a lock on the Gaboon Ebony market) what you
say about selecting only the blackest logs and leaving the rest to rot USED TO BE TRUE. Taylor now buys and sells GE whether it is streaked or not. They guarantee to buy the tree sight unseen. You cut it they'll buy it. It is a simple process to make grey streaked GB dead black by using Stewart-McDonald's fret board dye.


************************************************** **********************************
"Do yourself a Favor and BUY a BREAK CUE from Bob Flynn
at DENALI" Samsarakid24

"Best breaker on the planet", Henchmen 3

" Denali made by Bob Flynn. The best $700 I ever spent on a cue", POCONO



Bob Flynn/Denali Pool Cues
[url]www.denalicues.com
denalicues@ca.rr.com
626-705-0340
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#9)
greyghost
exile
greyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond reputegreyghost has a reputation beyond repute
 
greyghost's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 7,106
vCash: 500
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Join Date: Oct 2005
   
08-08-2018, 10:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by QMAKER View Post
"Letís all stop for a second and thank the guitar making dumbasses like Taylor.....and folks freak out over elephants hell they were dropping dozens of trees just to get one keg black one and would let the rest rot due to.....dogma."





In regards to Taylor (who has a lock on the Gaboon Ebony market) what you

say about selecting only the blackest logs and leaving the rest to rot USED TO BE TRUE. Taylor now buys and sells GE whether it is streaked or not. They guarantee to buy the tree sight unseen. You cut it they'll buy it. It is a simple process to make grey streaked GB dead black by using Stewart-McDonald's fret board dye.


I know exactly what they do now but I guess I should ****ing stand up and clap for them right?

That ďblack is the good chitĒ is has and always will be the biggest crock of bull ever perpetuated. Ignorant ideas like that are why fools think the pretty wood or good wood only comes fr m special trees from special places....donít get me wrong that for some species is true.....but just generally speaking I swear folks look at trees and wood like some we laugh about who donít get the whole process of animals becoming ham at Walmart lol.

Like those folks in wall-e man that thought pizza grew out the ground.

Iíll just go to Arizona...they got plenty of people there who would love for me to cut down all their Indian rosewood trees......go ahead ask a keeb why🤣

By the way this is a very simple idea.....

But you cannot respect something if you donít know anything about it.

This isnít tree hugger talk. Everyone needs to learn to respect the trees.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#10)
Ssonerai
AzB Silver Member
Ssonerai has a reputation beyond reputeSsonerai has a reputation beyond reputeSsonerai has a reputation beyond reputeSsonerai has a reputation beyond reputeSsonerai has a reputation beyond reputeSsonerai has a reputation beyond reputeSsonerai has a reputation beyond reputeSsonerai has a reputation beyond reputeSsonerai has a reputation beyond reputeSsonerai has a reputation beyond reputeSsonerai has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 321
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: May 2018
   
08-08-2018, 11:29 AM

There's loads of wood in the US that "should" make good cues, except you're kind of considered a hick if you follow Wharton Esherick's dictum. Basically (IOW paraphrasing) , "you ain't shit if you can't make great stuff from what grows in your back yard".

We grow the best rock maple (nod to canuckistanis, here, though ), and the best ash, to start with, for shafts. Birch should technically make a superior shaft to maple, but it is not a slam dunk substitute if the user can't "read" wood.

I've got American grown ebony (true diosporos); unfortunately it is in the form of a big flitch of thick veneer & only the center strip, about 2-1/2" wide, is pitch black. The rest is blond. It used to be the wood for golf clubs, when they were still made of wood. Persimmon is the common name. Then there is Texas ebony, which is not a true ebony but is black and dense.

Black locust would probably be dense enough, but the color is not a familiar one in cue circles. Green like heart poplar (table subrails) but fades to a honey brown.

I'll bet in terms of "hit" white oak could make a very serious cue, but it is rather coarse grain compared to the typical cue butt woods. & it isn't "rare" so less appealing to people who spend serious money on collector cues.

I like mahogany a lot for building doors and windows, but never would have considered it a cue wood? As someone else noted, American black walnut, carefully selected, is superior to mahogany in technical terms. (density, stiffness, etc).

There's a bunch of stuff growing in the desert states i don't know anything about.

There's a whole bunch of 2nd tier lumber that really is as good as ebony and cocobola: bocote, I actually like Ziricote even better than coco, but have not chosen to afford any yet. Bloodwood, PH, many, many more on market now that were not typical lumber trade woods 30 years ago.

The thing is, up to maybe 50 years ago, ebony was common & not terribly expensive (wish i knew then, etc....) and cocobola was almost cheap, being a poor man's substitute for rosewood. The woods were excellent for cues, and easy to source, so Brunswick used it by the carload for better cues, the few people like Rambow who had trained there knew where to source it cheap enough and continued, then the rush of makers in the 40's - 70's all copied each other and used it too, because they were not really wood guys who knew anything different. So now, there is a value system in the lumber used in cues that is related more to tradition, and ever more to "rareness" while there may well be plenty of wood and combinations that would easily play just as well, but "look wrong".

Then there's dymondwood (Yeah, i know that one is gone, but as an example) and a range of engineered products

smt
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#11)
JoeyInCali
AzB Silver Member

JoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond reputeJoeyInCali has a reputation beyond repute
 
JoeyInCali's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 23,208
vCash: 4400
iTrader: 77 / 100%
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: OC, California
   
08-08-2018, 12:30 PM

Zircote is turd compared to coco.
In hit and looks.
Good luck in finding a nicer hitting underwrap than purpleheart

Let's not even talk about straight grain BRW.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#12)
Ssonerai
AzB Silver Member
Ssonerai has a reputation beyond reputeSsonerai has a reputation beyond reputeSsonerai has a reputation beyond reputeSsonerai has a reputation beyond reputeSsonerai has a reputation beyond reputeSsonerai has a reputation beyond reputeSsonerai has a reputation beyond reputeSsonerai has a reputation beyond reputeSsonerai has a reputation beyond reputeSsonerai has a reputation beyond reputeSsonerai has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 321
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: May 2018
   
08-08-2018, 02:13 PM

Well maybe i won't spend for ziricote next time Rocky Mehta tries to unload some on me afterall. It sure looks pretty. I like the looks of selected pieces better than cocobola. Have to defer to you on "it doesn't hit so good?"

What is BRW?

Forgot, Wenge is getting expensive (was still cheap only a few years ago when i bought 500 ft 8/4 to resaw for gov't flooring project). Apparently some use if for butts. I still have a small stash but didn't feel it had a very good hit in the Merry style i made. May have to re-try it based on other reports.

Theres a couple left-over boards of paduak here in 8/4m, anyone have experience with that? Pyinma comes and goes on the market. Not cites related AFAIK, but not commonly imported, for some reason.

Back to American lumber, Beech might make a nice dense butt; but try keeping it straight, lol; and definitely bland looking. Ditto, same comments, hop-hornbeam.

Happy to hear if anyone has tried any of these.

smt
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#13)
PRED
AzB Silver Member
PRED has a reputation beyond reputePRED has a reputation beyond reputePRED has a reputation beyond reputePRED has a reputation beyond reputePRED has a reputation beyond reputePRED has a reputation beyond reputePRED has a reputation beyond reputePRED has a reputation beyond reputePRED has a reputation beyond reputePRED has a reputation beyond reputePRED has a reputation beyond repute
 
PRED's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 10,638
vCash: 600
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2013
   
08-08-2018, 02:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssonerai View Post
and cocobola was almost cheap, being a poor man's substitute for rosewood.
Cocobola(sic) Dalbergia Retusa is genuine Rosewood


IRATUS VULGUS
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#14)
Kim Bye
AzB Silver Member
Kim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond reputeKim Bye has a reputation beyond repute
 
Kim Bye's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,035
vCash: 500
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Oslo
   
08-08-2018, 02:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssonerai View Post
Well maybe i won't spend for ziricote next time Rocky Mehta tries to unload some on me afterall. It sure looks pretty. I like the looks of selected pieces better than cocobola. Have to defer to you on "it doesn't hit so good?"

What is BRW?

Forgot, Wenge is getting expensive (was still cheap only a few years ago when i bought 500 ft 8/4 to resaw for gov't flooring project). Apparently some use if for butts. I still have a small stash but didn't feel it had a very good hit in the Merry style i made. May have to re-try it based on other reports.

Theres a couple left-over boards of paduak here in 8/4m, anyone have experience with that? Pyinma comes and goes on the market. Not cites related AFAIK, but not commonly imported, for some reason.

Back to American lumber, Beech might make a nice dense butt; but try keeping it straight, lol; and definitely bland looking. Ditto, same comments, hop-hornbeam.

Happy to hear if anyone has tried any of these.

smt
Wenge isn`t that expensive, but I`m not a huge fan of working with it, so coarse and takes alot of work to get a good finish.
Paduak is cheap, readily available and easy to work with.



Cold silence
has a tendency
to atrophy any
sense of compassion
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#15)
thoffen
AzB Silver Member
thoffen has a reputation beyond reputethoffen has a reputation beyond reputethoffen has a reputation beyond reputethoffen has a reputation beyond reputethoffen has a reputation beyond reputethoffen has a reputation beyond reputethoffen has a reputation beyond reputethoffen has a reputation beyond reputethoffen has a reputation beyond reputethoffen has a reputation beyond reputethoffen has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 506
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
   
08-08-2018, 02:42 PM

Not black, but there are some nice dark chocolate pieces of black mesquite. Domestic mesquite is nice to work with and can be reddish.

Last edited by thoffen; 08-08-2018 at 02:46 PM.
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 1 of 3 1 23

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.