Race to handicap 9 ball tournament

StormHotRod300 · Mar 1, 2007

I just did my first handicap tournament at the pool hall i goto, since they began using the new handicap system.

It's a 7/5 race DE. But the handicap goes, c-,c,c+,b-,b,b+,a-,a

Well a C- vs a A player, gets the breaks and the wild 5.

If a person is one level below someone they get the last 2. a C vs B gets the wild 7. C vs B+ gets the call 7 + breaks.

for the most part, the field is full of about 24 C- to C+ players with the rest of the guys, B- to A- I think there is only two A- players.

While it always seems the B- or higher guys always seem to end up in the money, there's always a C range player in the money too.

seymore15074 · Mar 1, 2007

Drew said:
I'd make unknown players start at the highest handicap. On 9 ft tables, I'd go with 4 handicaps. C's go to 4, B's go to 5, A's go to 6, AA's go to 7. Anyone who places in the top 4 automatically jumps a handicap. If you don't place for 4 weeks, you go down a level. To reduce sandbagging, if a player consistently gets 5th (i.e. 50% of the tour) bump him up. Will there be payouts after every tournament or will you only give points? If you only award points for each tournament, then automatically, everyone who plays, gets a point. Award additional points to the top 66%. If you also have a payout after each tournament award points to the top 50% and payout the top 12.5%. You should have a separate "end of tour" tournament in which the minimum points to enter is the number of weeks the tour has gone. For example, an 8 week tour requires 8 points to compete. Also, award money for various achievements: most points, most improved, most tournaments won. Your last tournament should pay out to the top 33%. Good luck.

Omg, are you kidding? First of all, starting players at the highest handicap is a good idea if you want your tournament to never have new players, or in other words, not grow.

And there is no need for some kind of crazy forumla for ratings. It's simple, if the rating is right, a player should be able to win the tournament every once in a while...if they win, great, they stay the same. If they win twice in a row, move them up. If they place a few times close together, consider bumping them up.

Just use that to help even out the ratings, they will get there. Ignore everyone's moaning about ratings, and tell them that YOU are running this tournament.

Bob Jewett · Mar 1, 2007

BAZARUS said:
Hi all

Its been a while since last time I've been on the forum.

I will be running 9 ball tour in my local pool hall and I'd like to hear from you guys if you could give me some suggestion on how to set a handicap for players and how to adjust during a tournament.
Tour will be every week on thursday night in a pool hall with 10 nine footers (8 Brunswick and 2 Diamonds).
I was thinking about starting-lowest handicap "5" for players that I don't know or any other players with low skill level. It will be an alternate break determine by a coin flip. Tour will have points ranking updated every week, but I am not sure how many points to give to each player. I have double elimination brackets ready for 32 players. Also there will be 9 ball break-n-run contest(5 raffle tickets for $5.00 or 15 tickets for $10.00). I was thinking about 2 drawings each week and if there is no winner money goes to the pot for next week.
I have a lot to think about and I'd like some advices from you on how to run it.

Thanx in advance.

I developed a handicapping system that's easy to administer, easy for the players to understand and totally fair. It has been used for multiple years in multiple locations and has been adapted for use in several independent leagues. I will attach a brief explanation below. Contact me if you want to know more, or put the words "NPL jewett handicaps" into google. Very briefly, you get a rating, higher ratings give games on the wire to the lower ratings, if you win you go up, if you lose you go down. It's as simple as that. but there are details.

The NPL Handicapped Nine Ball System

Each player has a rating; better players have higher ratings.
Beginners will have ratings around 20, while professional players
will have ratings around 100 or higher. Matches are handicapped by
requiring the better player to win more games to win the match. The
size of the handicap is determined by the difference between the
ratings of the players according to the tables below. For example,
if a player rated at 55 played someone rated at 25, the difference
would be 30 rating points and the regular match length would be six
games to three.

The ratings are adjusted after each tournament. For each match a
player wins or loses, his rating goes up or down one point. New
players are adjusted faster than that, moving three rating points
per match for their first ten matches and then two for twenty matches.

(Table shortened because it cannot be formatted well in this BB software, so far as I can tell. See http://www.sfbilliards.com/NPL_info.txt for the whole thing.)
Regular Match ---- Long Match
(Chart-10) ---- (Chart-12)

Rating Match ---- Rating Match
Diff. Games ---- Diff. Games

0-5 5-5 ---- 0-4 6-6
6-14 5-4 ---- 5-11 6-5
5-21 6-4 ---- 12-17 7-5

22-28 5-3 ---- 18-22 6-4
29-36 6-3 ---- 23-28 7-4
37-46 7-3 ---- 29-35 8-4
47-56 6-2 ---- 36-42 7-3
57-UP 7-2 ---- 43-48 8-3
===== ----- 49-58 9-3
===== ----- 59-68 8-2
===== ----- 69-UP 9-2

If the better player is giving up half or more of the match, he has
choice on the first break, otherwise lag for first break.

Tables for other length matches are available and may be used.

Optional rules to reduce delay from slow players:

Speedup Rule 1: If both players have ratings under 45, use Chart-8,
otherwise use Chart-10.

Speedup Rule 2: If the whole tournament is waiting on one match
that hasn't started yet, that match will use Chart-8 instead of
Chart-10. Use of this rule is at the tournament director's
discretion.

ScottW · Mar 1, 2007

I never got around to amending my initial post re: the funky handicap system my friend is using for his tournament series - I re-discovered that it's basically Bob's system, but I think he just uses parts of it. I suspect he's going to try and implement it more fully though.

Bob Jewett · Mar 1, 2007

BAZARUS said:
I'll stay with a double elimination format. Its better for players and better for the place.

I disagree in the strongest possible way.

An alternative is buy-back. Play single elimination in groups of four. If a player loses in the group of four, he can buy back for the regular entry fee. The winner of four goes on to the "finals" and will get money back. Stop buy backs either when you have the finals chart full (8 players?) or no one wants to enter. Among other things, this format allows you to start the tournament as soon as you have half the players present (or so), since the late players can simply get into later groups of four. This is reasonably simple, it has lots of advantages, and it is much, much better than double elimination.

Bob Jewett · Mar 1, 2007

ScottW said:
The thing is, even with a handicap system - the superior player *should* win pretty much every time - as the superior player *should* win every game, barring situations like the weaker player breaking and running, superior player breaking dry and weaker player running out, etc....

I think the handicap system itself should ensure as well as it can that each match is a 50-50 proposition. If a good player plays badly, he should expect to lose even if he is playing against a beginner. On the other hand, if the beginner has a good night, he should have a chance to win the tournament.

If you want to give some kind of advantage to the higher-rated players, do it explicitly. Have a Masters tournament at the end of the year with only the top-rated players (maybe the top 1/4) eligible to enter, and make it unhandicapped. Don't hide the advantage of the top players in the handicap system. Add perhaps 20% of the accumulated season prize fund.

BAZARUS · Mar 1, 2007

Bob Jewett said:
I developed a handicapping system that's easy to administer, easy for the players to understand and totally fair. It has been used for multiple years in multiple locations and has been adapted for use in several independent leagues. I will attach a brief explanation below. Contact me if you want to know more, or put the words "NPL jewett handicaps" into google. Very briefly, you get a rating, higher ratings give games on the wire to the lower ratings, if you win you go up, if you lose you go down. It's as simple as that. but there are details.

The NPL Handicapped Nine Ball System

Each player has a rating; better players have higher ratings.
Beginners will have ratings around 20, while professional players
will have ratings around 100 or higher. Matches are handicapped by
requiring the better player to win more games to win the match. The
size of the handicap is determined by the difference between the
ratings of the players according to the tables below. For example,
if a player rated at 55 played someone rated at 25, the difference
would be 30 rating points and the regular match length would be six
games to three.

The ratings are adjusted after each tournament. For each match a
player wins or loses, his rating goes up or down one point. New
players are adjusted faster than that, moving three rating points
per match for their first ten matches and then two for twenty matches.

(Table shortened because it cannot be formatted well in this BB software, so far as I can tell. See http://www.sfbilliards.com/NPL_info.txt for the whole thing.)
Regular Match ---- Long Match
(Chart-10) ---- (Chart-12)

Rating Match ---- Rating Match
Diff. Games ---- Diff. Games

0-5 5-5 ---- 0-4 6-6
6-14 5-4 ---- 5-11 6-5
5-21 6-4 ---- 12-17 7-5

22-28 5-3 ---- 18-22 6-4
29-36 6-3 ---- 23-28 7-4
37-46 7-3 ---- 29-35 8-4
47-56 6-2 ---- 36-42 7-3
57-UP 7-2 ---- 43-48 8-3
===== ----- 49-58 9-3
===== ----- 59-68 8-2
===== ----- 69-UP 9-2

If the better player is giving up half or more of the match, he has
choice on the first break, otherwise lag for first break.

Tables for other length matches are available and may be used.

Optional rules to reduce delay from slow players:

Speedup Rule 1: If both players have ratings under 45, use Chart-8,
otherwise use Chart-10.

Speedup Rule 2: If the whole tournament is waiting on one match
that hasn't started yet, that match will use Chart-8 instead of
Chart-10. Use of this rule is at the tournament director's
discretion.

I like this, however I'm going to have to learn how to read those charts

Bob Jewett · Mar 1, 2007

BAZARUS said:
I like this, however I'm going to have to learn how to read those charts

Sadly, the charts came through badly. The line that says:

15-21 6-4 ---- 12-17 7-5

indicates that if two players are separated by the range of 15-21 rating points, their match will be 6-4 on games. The second set of numbers is for longer matches, and if they are separated by 12-17 rating points, the match will be 7-5 on games. These are the normal and long match lengths in the league I played in. There is also a table for shorter matches which you could use for weaker players or if things are going too slowly or you have too many people.

The charts on the web link given before are more legible.

ScottW · Mar 1, 2007

Bob, you might want to edit that text file you linked to - it's got a bunch of unix command line stuff in it that will make some people's heads explode.

That, or make a proper web page out of it. I can do that for you if you like - that's what I do for a living.

Bob Jewett · Mar 1, 2007

ScottW said:
Bob, you might want to edit that text file you linked to - it's got a bunch of unix command line stuff in it that will make some people's heads explode.

That, or make a proper web page out of it. I can do that for you if you like - that's what I do for a living.

I figure that if I have to put up with Bill Gates's droppings -- a two-line memo about when lunch is as a Word document!?! -- others should be forced to put up with the innards of shar files, even if it makes their heads explode.

Thanks for the offer, but I can write HTML well enough to do it myself once I find the motivation. In the mean time, it's a kind of IQ test -- the bright ones who can pick out the files will have no problem running the handicap system.

BAZARUS · Mar 1, 2007

ScottW said:
Bob, you might want to edit that text file you linked to - it's got a bunch of unix command line stuff in it that will make some people's heads explode.

That, or make a proper web page out of it. I can do that for you if you like - that's what I do for a living.

I know, right...

BAZARUS · Mar 1, 2007

Bob Jewett said:
I figure that if I have to put up with Bill Gates's droppings -- a two-line memo about when lunch is as a Word document!?! -- others should be forced to put up with the innards of shar files, even if it makes their heads explode.

Thanks for the offer, but I can write HTML well enough to do it myself once I find the motivation. In the mean time, it's a kind of IQ test -- the bright ones who can pick out the files will have no problem running the handicap system.

BTW

Is IQ of 130 enough to figure this out

IndyOrganizer · Nov 21, 2022

Apologize for zombieing this thread but does anyone have any suggestions on how to run a 9 ball apa handicapped tournament that is game races instead of ball races?

ChrisinNC · Nov 21, 2022

BAZARUS said:
Hi all

Its been a while since last time I've been on the forum.

I will be running 9 ball tour in my local pool hall and I'd like to hear from you guys if you could give me some suggestion on how to set a handicap for players and how to adjust during a tournament.
Tour will be every week on thursday night in a pool hall with 10 nine footers (8 Brunswick and 2 Diamonds).
I was thinking about starting-lowest handicap "5" for players that I don't know or any other players with low skill level. It will be an alternate break determine by a coin flip. Tour will have points ranking updated every week, but I am not sure how many points to give to each player. I have double elimination brackets ready for 32 players. Also there will be 9 ball break-n-run contest(5 raffle tickets for $5.00 or 15 tickets for $10.00). I was thinking about 2 drawings each week and if there is no winner money goes to the pot for next week.
I have a lot to think about and I'd like some advices from you on how to run it.

Thanx in advance.

Just get ready for players to invariably complain about their rating. Hopefully you know the skill levels of many of the players as a starting point. Otherwise you’ll just need to start everyone out the same and adjust depending on results.

Based on what you’re thinking, it will be a long winded tournament. I would suggest keeping it simpler / shorter to start with such as ranking players from 3 to 7 and see how it goes, tweaking it every week until you get it to where the tournament can be completed in a reasonable time frame.

Wow, I just saw this was a 15+ year old thread.

ChrisinNC · Nov 21, 2022

IndyOrganizer said:
Apologize for zombieing this thread but does anyone have any suggestions on how to run a 9 ball apa handicapped tournament that is game races instead of ball races?

We have 5 rankings which are games on the wire.

Difference of 1 ranking is a 1 game spot racing to 4.

Difference of 2 ranking is a 1 game spot racing to 3.

Difference of 3 ranking is a 2 game spot racing to 4.

Difference of 4 ranking (maximum difference) is a 3 game spot racing to 5.

Seems to work out well for us, as players may be bumped up in their ranking if they do well but rarely get moved down.

Race to handicap 9 ball tournament

StormHotRod300

BigSexy

seymore15074

So what are you saying?

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member

ScottW

Fo' shizzle!

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member

BAZARUS

alien in a strange land

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member

ScottW

Fo' shizzle!

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member

BAZARUS

alien in a strange land

BAZARUS

alien in a strange land

IndyOrganizer

New member

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member