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cleary
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03-20-2014, 09:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry Williams View Post
Maybe I am missing something - I see 178K in and 178K out.
128x1000=128,000.
  
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03-20-2014, 09:23 AM

Plus 50K added.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cleary View Post
128x1000=128,000.
  
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03-20-2014, 09:29 AM

A one thousand dollar entry is tough on most players. Perhaps a series of qualifiers, like poker uses, might help some players get the needed cash to enter. I don't see a full field regardless. I'd say it's likely to be around 100 or so. Regardless the entry should be up there to help boost the prize fund and ensure a decent payoff.
  
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03-20-2014, 09:30 AM

Despite some grumbling, I think the 128 player field is the best option. This isn't a tourney killing change. If anything, this is a different version that just may work out. I see it as one of those "we'll have to see how it actually works out" type of deals. For that matter, wasn't the WPC 9 ball always 128 player fields?

I'm not sure having open, unlimited fields, like Poker, is hte answer either. One of the biggest differences with Poker is that just about every single entrant thinks s/he has a chance to get lucky and go a lot further than expected. It's the Chris Moneymaker factor.
With Pool, there has never been a "Chris Moneymaker" and there never will be. The luck vs skill factor in Pool is a fraction of cards. I'm willing to bet that there has never been anything remotely close to a CM situation, in Pool.


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03-20-2014, 09:41 AM

What a disaster. Dead money carried this event. How many people are going to invest $1000 for an event where there's only about a dozen guys with a real chance of win/place/show. I predict 50-75 entrants.
  
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03-20-2014, 09:41 AM

I am guessing this will not end up good.

Optimistic is he breaks even on payouts with player fees/money added if its a full field. I have yet to see anyone that believes it will come anywhere close to 128 players. His expenses are not even in the equation at this point so to act like the money is not all there is just wrong. IMO he could be setting himself up for quite a bath when this is all said and done though. Imagine only 70 players playing and being short another 58,000.....

Place Spots Money Total
1st 1 25000 25000
2nd 1 13000 13000
3rd 1 8000 8000
4th 1 7000 7000
5th-6th 2 5000 10000
7th-8th 2 4500 9000
9th-12th 4 4000 16000
13th-16th 4 3500 14000
17th-24th 8 3000 24000
25th-32nd 8 2500 20000
33rd - 48th 16 2000 32000
Total Paid $178,000.00
Entry $ $128,000.00
Added $ $50,000.00
Total Collected $178,000.00

Net $ $-


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03-20-2014, 10:18 AM

I think a lot of the change is good and will work if the entry is lowered and don't pay as deep. I mean, CSI puts on the Swannie 128 players in 2 days. Add one more day to make it more comfortable for all. A 1000k and going to pay deep with a 6 day tournament sounds like this is the "I really don't want to do it format". Johnnyt


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03-20-2014, 11:18 AM

Someone tell Barry to read the following flaw in his logic.

He wants to continue to pay deep to accommodate the weaker (dead money) players and give them a chance at getting their money back. What he fails to realize is that at $1,000 an entry, not only is he limiting the number of pros that will enter, but is practically eliminating all of the weaker competition that the deeper payouts are geared towards.

128 player cap for logistics reasons is fine, but why not keep the entry at $500 and use these payouts.

128 players x $500 = $64,000 + $50,000 added = $114,000 prize pool

1st $30,000
2nd $20,000
3rd $12,000
4th $5,000
5th $3,500
6th $3,500
7th $3,000
8th $3,000
9th-12th $2,500
13th-16th $2,000
17th-32nd $1,000


Now you're paying out 25% of the field, and giving 1st place a chance at a great payday. Plus, you are absolutely guaranteed to fill the tournament. With the current structure Barry is proposing, he'll be lucky to get 100 players.
  
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Gerry Williams
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03-20-2014, 11:27 AM

If he gets 64 at 1K he is better off than 128 paying 500. Less costs for the same amount of prize money.

Having said that you are right - 1K will steer most Amateurs away from the event which is too bad.

I bet getting 50 players to pay 1K will prove to be a challenge.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BeiberLvr View Post
Someone tell Barry to read the following flaw in his logic.

He wants to continue to pay deep to accommodate the weaker (dead money) players and give them a chance at getting their money back. What he fails to realize is that at $1,000 an entry, not only is he limiting the number of pros that will enter, but is practically eliminating all of the weaker competition that the deeper payouts are geared towards.

128 player cap for logistics reasons is fine, but why not keep the entry at $500 and use these payouts.

128 players x $500 = $64,000 + $50,000 added = $114,000 prize pool

1st $30,000
2nd $20,000
3rd $12,000
4th $5,000
5th $3,500
6th $3,500
7th $3,000
8th $3,000
9th-12th $2,500
13th-16th $2,000
17th-32nd $1,000


Now you're paying out 25% of the field, and giving 1st place a chance at a great payday. Plus, you are absolutely guaranteed to fill the tournament. With the current structure Barry is proposing, he'll be lucky to get 100 players.
  
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03-20-2014, 11:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeiberLvr View Post
Someone tell Barry to read the following flaw in his logic.

He wants to continue to pay deep to accommodate the weaker (dead money) players and give them a chance at getting their money back. What he fails to realize is that at $1,000 an entry, not only is he limiting the number of pros that will enter, but is practically eliminating all of the weaker competition that the deeper payouts are geared towards.

128 player cap for logistics reasons is fine, but why not keep the entry at $500 and use these payouts.

128 players x $500 = $64,000 + $50,000 added = $114,000 prize pool

1st $30,000
2nd $20,000
3rd $12,000
4th $5,000
5th $3,500
6th $3,500
7th $3,000
8th $3,000
9th-12th $2,500
13th-16th $2,000
17th-32nd $1,000


Now you're paying out 25% of the field, and giving 1st place a chance at a great payday. Plus, you are absolutely guaranteed to fill the tournament. With the current structure Barry is proposing, he'll be lucky to get 100 players.
This is the exact entry fee and payout structure that should be used. Even placing 3rd gets you 12K. In his format now with 1000 entry second place only gets 13k. This makes so much more sense and would most definitely bring in a full field. Its standard for a tournament to pay out 1/4 of the field.
  
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03-20-2014, 11:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunoutJJ View Post
106 is left over after payouts. Now that doesnt include tables, lights, security, seating, etc etc etc.




** Correction** Left over monies after payout is $100,500.
He is getting this from just adding straight down the list - not factoring in how many people get the payouts...that's where the mistake is from. if you just add out all the pay brackets and don't multiply any by how many people will be getting that payout, its 77,500 which is 100500 short of the 178...hence this posters confusion. Once you multiple the payouts by how many people are getting that payout, the money is right.
  
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03-20-2014, 11:31 AM

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Originally Posted by cardiac kid View Post
Please Jen, tell me it really will happen. I'll have to take a few days off just to watch the Keither in action again! Be still my heart.

Lyn
Thanks, Lyn. I tell you, I'm really getting long in the tooth and too doggone tired to work the hours I'm working. I'm on the verge of retiring. If that happens, me and Keith will be on the road again with Mickey. We have to figure out a way to take Mickey with us. I will never leave my dog at home again for pool. No way, Jose! Mickey McCready is family now.
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03-20-2014, 11:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Dynomite View Post
Jam,

I love your spirit. But, i hate to be a Debbie Downer but the 800 pound gorilla is still there or did it disappear???

Escrow???
Payment Plans???

KD
He said something in the article about having it in escrow for all to see. Read that article, and it explains it better than I can.

If I go to the tournament, it will be for fun. Keith might want to win it, but for me, I'm going for relaxation and socializing. Winning is not as important to me anymore.


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03-20-2014, 11:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeiberLvr View Post
Someone tell Barry to read the following flaw in his logic.

He wants to continue to pay deep to accommodate the weaker (dead money) players and give them a chance at getting their money back. What he fails to realize is that at $1,000 an entry, not only is he limiting the number of pros that will enter, but is practically eliminating all of the weaker competition that the deeper payouts are geared towards.

128 player cap for logistics reasons is fine, but why not keep the entry at $500 and use these payouts.

128 players x $500 = $64,000 + $50,000 added = $114,000 prize pool

1st $30,000
2nd $20,000
3rd $12,000
4th $5,000
5th $3,500
6th $3,500
7th $3,000
8th $3,000
9th-12th $2,500
13th-16th $2,000
17th-32nd $1,000


Now you're paying out 25% of the field, and giving 1st place a chance at a great payday. Plus, you are absolutely guaranteed to fill the tournament. With the current structure Barry is proposing, he'll be lucky to get 100 players.
I like your breakdown. It does make more sense, and it also will ensure that he will have a full field before day one, which is a problem that has plagued this tournament in the past, those pesky last-minute entries.


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03-20-2014, 11:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukemindish View Post
This is the exact entry fee and payout structure that should be used. Even placing 3rd gets you 12K. In his format now with 1000 entry second place only gets 13k. This makes so much more sense and would most definitely bring in a full field. Its standard for a tournament to pay out 1/4 of the field.
Well hopefully he'll read it and come to his senses. I think he did a lot last year to redeem himself for past mistakes, but seems he is ready to throw it all away.
  
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