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Idiotic racking and breaking talk
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Idiotic racking and breaking talk - 09-28-2015, 12:01 PM

It BLOWS MY MIND that Neils, Chris Melling and Karl Boyes have this totally backwards and goofy thought process when it comes to racking.

These guys treat the rack reading, pattern racking etc like steroid use in baseball. An advantage. The definition of which is 'a condition or circumstance that puts one in a favorable or superior position.' An advantage is getting ball in hand after the break while your opponent has to play as is. The conditions and circumstances in pool are as near to even as you can get, especially in an alternate break format. Both players have access to the same equipment, same table, same balls, lighting etc. Its like the kids playing call of duty online *****ing about the other guy using the best gun in the game. Meanwhile they both have access to it and even the pros in online gaming use the best and do as much as they can to win.

The reality is that its not the handful of players that know the rack or the patterns that are the problem, its the ones that don't. During the W9B it was pretty clear that Ko pattern racked and Shane may have but mixed at least 2-3 balls around. Does that make Ko a criminal? No. If the rules allowed I'm sure Shane would have done the same thing. They didn't so the ref got called in. Pure and simple.

When the goal is winning and there is no violation of clearly stated rules, a professional's job is to do everything it takes to win, as long as it does not interfere with the other player. Racking your own however you want, doesn't interfere with the other player. Racking for them and giving them a slug rack does.

The same goes for the break except its even clearer because other than the soft break and break box, there aren't really any rules. One player having a powerful and consistent break with great cue ball control is not an advantage over the other player. Its a learned tool to combat the game itself.

Golfers who hit the ball farther than others either just have the ability or put the time in. Did Tiger Woods win because of his driver lol? An advantage would be one out driving the other because of a piece of technology, not technique.

Players that attribute their opponents victories as having some sort of advantage is a joke. "Well, he just won because he played safe" "They only won because they won the lag" "That guy wins because of his break"

Unless there is something stopping a player from learning and utilizing the same techniques or skills as another, especially at the professional level, then the gloves are off. Its an excuse not to improve or practice.

Want to break near Shane and Ko's level? Then practice for 4-6 hours a day like he does/did. Want to have as good of cue ball control as Alex or Dennis? Then work on every possible aspect of cueball control that you can. Otherwise sit down and **** *** **** **

Pool players break the balls hard the way Ko, Shane, Alex, Wu, De Luna and others do is ENTERTAINING! Its also entertaining to watch a winner break format and see a champ put an 8 pack on somebody. Alternate break on a big table has a lot of value and controversy as well when it comes to entertainment.

It seems like a lot of these pros are their own worst enemies and really hinder the game more than help it.


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09-28-2015, 12:14 PM

Thank God they added a few psi's to the ball in New England. Mr 400 seems to have found his rhythm
  
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09-28-2015, 12:15 PM

I think it's like wanting to be a baseball pitcher and being told you have to learn how to juggle first.

Just to add some spice ;-)

Colin
  
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09-28-2015, 12:36 PM

Their not the only ones that have a problem with SVB and MDs racking many American Players have a problem


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09-28-2015, 12:59 PM

Maybe they should start playing more one pocket or banks instead of just connect the dots. For world class players to make 2 balls on the break and then use 6 pockets to make only seven more balls is not that entertaining imho. Karl and the others who don't appreciate the knowledge of the rack that some players have just don't want to take the time and effort to obtain those skills.
  
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09-28-2015, 01:35 PM

don't be hateing svb an md.thank joe trucker.
  
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09-28-2015, 01:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop The Rock View Post



One player having a powerful and consistent break with great cue ball control is not an advantage over the other player. Its a learned tool to combat the game itself.
I object to the fact that my opponents pocket a ball AND get position on the next ball. They should be allowed one or the other, not both! It's an unfair advantage.


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09-28-2015, 02:20 PM

Get enough refs to rack and NO rack checking. Just break the balls, not everyone else's. Johnnyt


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09-28-2015, 02:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Colenso View Post
I think it's like wanting to be a baseball pitcher and being told you have to learn how to juggle first.

Just to add some spice ;-)

Colin
Unlike juggling (or crying), racking actually is a part of the game.

I think it was last year's US Open nineball championship that made me aware of several prominent euros disrespecting our players in this area. (Mostly in comments on Facebook). By the semis at least, much more time was spent inspecting opponents racks than racking.

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09-28-2015, 05:05 PM

If you are purposely tilting the rack, moving it up or down from where it's supposed to be and creating gaps, you are cheating cxxt! When I catch someone doing this, I call them out on it. Simple as that. It used to be that people were only slug racking you, now they are giving themselves dead balls and pattern racking as well. I see no difference between actively distorting the rack and moving a ball with your hand when your opponent is not looking. In essence you are setting up a trick shot, not racking the balls! What if some guy came up with a way to do this with a 14 ball rack without anybody noticing, and started blasting the balls in 14.1? It would DESTROY the game, as it has allready partially destroyed 9 and 10 ball. Inspecting the rack on the other hand, is good practice when opponent racks, because it appears that not only are some of the worlds top players cheaters, but Azb actually condones this behavior!

WPA rules for 10 ball (I added the bold font for emphasis):

"9.2 Ten Ball Rack
The object balls are racked as tightly as possible in a triangular shape, with the one ball at the apex of
the triangle and on the foot spot and the ten ball in the middle of the triangle. The other balls will be
placed in the triangle without purposeful or intentional pattern. (See Regulation 4, Racking / Tapping of Balls.)"

Last edited by Straightpool_99; 09-28-2015 at 05:12 PM.
  
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09-28-2015, 07:40 PM

Johnnyt ur bang on i agree 100% let the ref rack and no checking period.
  
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09-28-2015, 11:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sciarco View Post
Johnnyt ur bang on i agree 100% let the ref rack and no checking period.
Worked fine that way for at least 100 years, maybe more.

The problems started coming in when people who thought they were more important than they were started changing the rules. And most of those rule changes were of benefit to the whiners and rack mechanics. Those rule changes, such as rack your own, allowing players to 'inspect' the rack, asking for reracks, template racks etc etc etc etc, did not make the game better. It turned it more into a clusterfook where people are still trying to figure out how to "fix" pool.

Pool was never broken, it didnt need to be "fixed". It needed someone to stand up to the whiners and lay down the law. Not cow down and allow the game to be bastardized with BS.
  
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09-29-2015, 06:01 AM

First, let's agree that we're not going to see a dedicated, neutral racker (referee) become the standard. Tournaments just can't afford it...not to mention two guys playing for $20 at the local pool hall. It's like saying "All politicians should be honest" -- ain't gonna happened so don't waste your breath.

The problem: racking templates, rack-your-own, etc. make the break too predictable and therefore minimize the importance of other aspects of the game.

Oftentimes the best solution to a problem is to approach it from the opposite direction:

So, what happens if you flip the situation upside-down? Opponent racks and attempts to give THE WORST POSSIBLE rack. You can check the rack but there's no re-racking, no complaining because "What's the point?" since your opponent's objective was to give you THE WORST POSSIBLE rack. The only rule is that the racker has to keep all the balls within the rack (yes, bring back the diamond-shaped 9-ball rack), but they can (should) be loose, lop-sided and a generally crappy rack.

You're still going to try to make a ball on the break so you can keep shooting, but it's far less predictable. You can inspect the rack to see if there are any dead balls, but it's nothing like the current wing-ball-in-the-corner-pocket situation.


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09-29-2015, 06:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdorman View Post
I object to the fact that my opponents pocket a ball AND get position on the next ball. They should be allowed one or the other, not both! It's an unfair advantage.
Controlling the 1 and the cue ball on a 9 ball break is art.


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09-29-2015, 06:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdorman View Post
First, let's agree that we're not going to see a dedicated, neutral racker (referee) become the standard. Tournaments just can't afford it...not to mention two guys playing for $20 at the local pool hall. It's like saying "All politicians should be honest" -- ain't gonna happened so don't waste your breath.

The problem: racking templates, rack-your-own, etc. make the break too predictable and therefore minimize the importance of other aspects of the game.

Oftentimes the best solution to a problem is to approach it from the opposite direction:

So, what happens if you flip the situation upside-down? Opponent racks and attempts to give THE WORST POSSIBLE rack. You can check the rack but there's no re-racking, no complaining because "What's the point?" since your opponent's objective was to give you THE WORST POSSIBLE rack. The only rule is that the racker has to keep all the balls within the rack (yes, bring back the diamond-shaped 9-ball rack), but they can (should) be loose, lop-sided and a generally crappy rack.

You're still going to try to make a ball on the break so you can keep shooting, but it's far less predictable. You can inspect the rack to see if there are any dead balls, but it's nothing like the current wing-ball-in-the-corner-pocket situation.
Safe breaking will follow somehow. Which could be interesting I guess but I don't care for this either. Rack your own 1 on top 2 on the bottom and the rest are random. Players police each-other or patterns. Whether its magic rack or not and then when the latter stages of the tournament come up let the real crackdown begin.

The racking controversy actually gets pretty entertaining and attention drawing.


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