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The deeper meanings dependent on the outcome of the Bergman v Shaw match.
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The deeper meanings dependent on the outcome of the Bergman v Shaw match. - 10-14-2015, 12:26 PM

This match up was highly anticipated as two of the very best in the country if not the world matching up in a long race of 10 ball

I would like to touch on some of the deeper impacts this outcome can have if berg continues to runaway with it

1. the Brits dont gamble well. Jayson talked a lot of smack on Facebook of wanting to bet over the 20k and taking all the rail action. Even Darren Appleton wanted to get a piece of the action. this reminds me of when Appleton and hatch got it on few years ago. Appleton i think would be everyone's favorite in the match in any game with his world titles and pedigree however the hatchet-man quite handily swept through him in this large action race format. Shaw looks like he is getting the same treatment.

2. bergman is under rated still. I read before that Bergman has no chance because he is a bar box player, as ridiculous as that is to the pool fanatics that is still the mindset of some. Jayson is regarded as the best bet for the US open 9 ball and arguably the best pocket maker in the world. Bergman is outclassing him in every area.

3. The break is not the whole picture in longer races. SVB was supposed to dismantle Alex in the race to 100 where alex came back and won. Alex break not the best and he came back and won that match. SVB against Mills 9 ball mills in all fairness trapped Shane into that game because of the pattern rack and soft break. Shane went to a hard break and without matching any of Donnies large packages still managed to outplay and win there. Shaw is arguably the best breaker behind SVb and is getting shat on.

Interested to hear other thoughts and feedback.
  
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10-14-2015, 12:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by actionplayer View Post
This match up was highly anticipated as two of the very best in the country if not the world matching up in a long race of 10 ball

I would like to touch on some of the deeper impacts this outcome can have if berg continues to runaway with it

1. the Brits dont gamble well. Jayson talked a lot of smack on Facebook of wanting to bet over the 20k and taking all the rail action. Even Darren Appleton wanted to get a piece of the action. this reminds me of when Appleton and hatch got it on few years ago. Appleton i think would be everyone's favorite in the match in any game with his world titles and pedigree however the hatchet-man quite handily swept through him in this large action race format. Shaw looks like he is getting the same treatment.

2. bergman is under rated still. I read before that Bergman has no chance because he is a bar box player, as ridiculous as that is to the pool fanatics that is still the mindset of some. Jayson is regarded as the best bet for the US open 9 ball and arguably the best pocket maker in the world. Bergman is outclassing him in every area.

3. The break is not the whole picture in longer races. SVB was supposed to dismantle Alex in the race to 100 where alex came back and won. Alex break not the best and he came back and won that match. SVB against Mills 9 ball mills in all fairness trapped Shane into that game because of the pattern rack and soft break. Shane went to a hard break and without matching any of Donnies large packages still managed to outplay and win there. Shaw is arguably the best breaker behind SVb and is getting shat on.

Interested to hear other thoughts and feedback.
Very small sample size, next week it could be exactly the opposite.
It's not over yet.
  
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10-14-2015, 12:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by actionplayer View Post
This match up was highly anticipated as two of the very best in the country if not the world matching up in a long race of 10 ball

I would like to touch on some of the deeper impacts this outcome can have if berg continues to runaway with it

1. the Brits dont gamble well. Jayson talked a lot of smack on Facebook of wanting to bet over the 20k and taking all the rail action. Even Darren Appleton wanted to get a piece of the action. this reminds me of when Appleton and hatch got it on few years ago. Appleton i think would be everyone's favorite in the match in any game with his world titles and pedigree however the hatchet-man quite handily swept through him in this large action race format. Shaw looks like he is getting the same treatment.

2. bergman is under rated still. I read before that Bergman has no chance because he is a bar box player, as ridiculous as that is to the pool fanatics that is still the mindset of some. Jayson is regarded as the best bet for the US open 9 ball and arguably the best pocket maker in the world. Bergman is outclassing him in every area.

3. The break is not the whole picture in longer races. SVB was supposed to dismantle Alex in the race to 100 where alex came back and won. Alex break not the best and he came back and won that match. SVB against Mills 9 ball mills in all fairness trapped Shane into that game because of the pattern rack and soft break. Shane went to a hard break and without matching any of Donnies large packages still managed to outplay and win there. Shaw is arguably the best breaker behind SVb and is getting shat on.

Interested to hear other thoughts and feedback.
These clowns that talk about Bergman make me laugh. Sorry but pure "bar table players" Don't play one pocket at the speed that Bergman does. He has a much stronger game than people want to acknowledge and will only get better. IMO he is going to surpass Mike Dechaine in the next few years.


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10-14-2015, 12:51 PM

Bergman seems to have really picked his game up the last year or so.
  
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10-14-2015, 12:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by actionplayer View Post
This match up was highly anticipated as two of the very best in the country if not the world matching up in a long race of 10 ball



I would like to touch on some of the deeper impacts this outcome can have if berg continues to runaway with it



1. the Brits dont gamble well. Jayson talked a lot of smack on Facebook of wanting to bet over the 20k and taking all the rail action. Even Darren Appleton wanted to get a piece of the action. this reminds me of when Appleton and hatch got it on few years ago. Appleton i think would be everyone's favorite in the match in any game with his world titles and pedigree however the hatchet-man quite handily swept through him in this large action race format. Shaw looks like he is getting the same treatment.



2. bergman is under rated still. I read before that Bergman has no chance because he is a bar box player, as ridiculous as that is to the pool fanatics that is still the mindset of some. Jayson is regarded as the best bet for the US open 9 ball and arguably the best pocket maker in the world. Bergman is outclassing him in every area.



3. The break is not the whole picture in longer races. SVB was supposed to dismantle Alex in the race to 100 where alex came back and won. Alex break not the best and he came back and won that match. SVB against Mills 9 ball mills in all fairness trapped Shane into that game because of the pattern rack and soft break. Shane went to a hard break and without matching any of Donnies large packages still managed to outplay and win there. Shaw is arguably the best breaker behind SVb and is getting shat on.



Interested to hear other thoughts and feedback.

I think you're correct in Justin being underrated, he's been making big strides in his game for the last 2 years & hasn't got his proper due for that improvement, especially going into this match.

In my experiences talking to Jayson he's a naturally confident guy & you're correct in that he talked a lot of smack going into this. You're username is Actionplayer so you're aware as many here are, that tournament play is 1 thing but gambling is quite another. Matching up for 20 dimes changes things for most players & can put a hitch in your stroke of you're not a seasoned action player. Hell 20 dimes can test the mettle of a seasoned action player if he's playing on his own $.

3. The break is always a factor, but is diminished a bit in grinder match ups like this. Jayson was breaking a ton at the start of the match but Justin isn't breaking badly. I feel the difference is Justin's playing great defensive shots & getting out when he's supposed to & once things got tied early on Jayson missed quite a few opportunities, something you really can't do when your opponent is capitalizing by getting out & making you pay every time you make a mistake.

Looking forward to the conclusion of this tonight. I'd like to see Justin take it off as I think it would be a turning point for him in his journey on the playing field but I think everyone is going to see a different Jayson tonight though. The real question is can he fade that lead Justin has.

I'm interested to see if he can come out strong & if he does how Justin reacts to it or if he can't get a strong start how he reacts to it as he's getting buried even further, there's going to be a group of interesting dynamics going into tonight's session,.


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10-14-2015, 01:19 PM

i'm pretty certain one of the reasons, if not the main reason, that jayson is favored over justin is because of his race to 100 against shane where the score ended up shane 100 to jayson 94, he got pretty damn close to winning despite shane being the best 10ball breaker in the world, only one that comes to mind that's at that monster breaking power is ko pin yi
but what i'm saying is most people wouldn't pick justin against shane in a 10ball race to 100, while me personally, i don't even think justin would get to 80
a few years ago on tar 35, shane beat dennis 100 to 81, dennis is a world champion and one of the best gamblers on earth
that's not to knock justin, he's a beast and he's shown he can hang with the best out there, and still showin it
  
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10-14-2015, 01:25 PM

I agree with your 2nd and 3rd points but to conclude that brits don't gamble well based on this match and Appleton's match is a bit of a stretch I think and I certainly don't think you can call that a "deeper meaning"...

As I said in another thread, I think Shaw just got frustrated by Bergman's play and how lucky he was getting. I think that also exposed a weakness in his game, he's not as careful as he needs to be.

Instead of slowing down just a tiny bit and thinking things out, he got more careless as he got frustrated. I don't know, maybe he's such a "natural" type of a player that it's just not in him to grind a bit more (this is the first time I've ever seen him play so I don't know) but if that's the case, he's not going to get to the top. I'm sure he's unbeatable when he's on. You can see that he's got that kind of talent, but some times you have to grind when you're not firing on all cylinders.

I hope we see him at his best tonight.


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10-14-2015, 01:41 PM

Bergman is a great player.fun to watch an talk to he good for the game of pool...

Last edited by Eagles89; 10-14-2015 at 01:45 PM.
  
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10-14-2015, 02:24 PM

I was there for the match. Yes, Bergman got a lot of rolls. His break is not as strong as Shaw's. He was the underdog on his home court according to most. I heard a lot of the Shaw supporters say Bergman would get run over. Obviously, that didn't happen.

Bergman got Shaw down by consistently running out the balls when they were available. He was totally into the game. He only missed 6/7 make able shots. He kicked better. His safety play was much better. He was very focused and his recent record shows he knows how to get that money.

Shaw is a great player that has won a lot of big time matches, but he missed easy shots, including the 10, multiple times. He certainly was frustrated, didn't stay focused, and eventually got broke down.

Will be interesting to see how it goes down tonight.

Last edited by Love The Game; 10-14-2015 at 02:26 PM.
  
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10-14-2015, 02:30 PM

I see this match as one of two scenarios (If Bergman continues today like he did yesterday):

1. Its a fluke, Bergman played over his head, and Shaw played bad.

----or----

2. It's Bergman's coming out party. From this point forward, he will be top world class, not just top USA class. Similar to what happened when Shane played Corey in TAR 1. Everyone know Shane was a good player, but no one outside of his local fans knew he was in fact a top world class player until that match.
  
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10-14-2015, 02:34 PM

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Originally Posted by Alex Kanapilly View Post
I agree with your 2nd and 3rd points but to conclude that brits don't gamble well based on this match and Appleton's match is a bit of a stretch I think and I certainly don't think you can call that a "deeper meaning"...

As I said in another thread, I think Shaw just got frustrated by Bergman's play and how lucky he was getting. I think that also exposed a weakness in his game, he's not as careful as he needs to be.

Instead of slowing down just a tiny bit and thinking things out, he got more careless as he got frustrated. I don't know, maybe he's such a "natural" type of a player that it's just not in him to grind a bit more (this is the first time I've ever seen him play so I don't know) but if that's the case, he's not going to get to the top. I'm sure he's unbeatable when he's on. You can see that he's got that kind of talent, but some times you have to grind when you're not firing on all cylinders.

I hope we see him at his best tonight.
A lot of us cut Shane no slack for the rolls in the "Worlds 9-ball" finals, so why should we cut Jayson any slack in this race to 40? Shane had his chances as Jayson has had his. If they get mentally bogged down that's on them. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.


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10-14-2015, 02:53 PM

Where is this coming out party stuff coming from. Been watching this kid perform rather well over the last several years. Justin may have improved his consistency over time by dedicating himself more to the game, but I've seen play like this from him before now. A little more improvement in some areas of concentration and a new found break and it's look out Shane.


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10-14-2015, 04:48 PM

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Originally Posted by OLD NO 9 View Post
A lot of us cut Shane no slack for the rolls in the "Worlds 9-ball" finals, so why should we cut Jayson any slack in this race to 40? Shane had his chances as Jayson has had his. If they get mentally bogged down that's on them. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Well, for the record, I cut Shane some slack on that. I thought he got out lucked in the match against Ko... and he screwed up down the stretch.

Not sure why you think I'm cutting Jayson any slack for getting frustrated. I think his frustration is what led to him getting down so far in the match. The way Justin was playing yesterday, I'm sure he would still be winning but I do think Jayson's frustration affected his play, as I previously stated.


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Talking 10-14-2015, 07:50 PM

Folks are reading too much into this match . It is a grudge match that is all. I have to say Justin has clearly improved hell of a lot since couple years ago
If he wants to make a statement, he should target last 8 finish at US Open beating field of top players .

  
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