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A Mosconi Cup Proposal
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lfigueroa
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A Mosconi Cup Proposal - 12-10-2011, 06:34 PM

Having read through most of the posts re: the Mosconi Cup the last few weeks and having watched a bit of the stream, I have a modest proposal to make, WHICH I fully realize will never be realized (for any number of political reasons), but here goes anyways:

Let the AZ crew -- as the most interested, unbiased, and knowledgable pool aficionados in this country -- be the one's to decide the composition of the next USA Mosconi Cup team by (not unlike the one pocket.org HOF nomination process) polling, voting, general acclaim, whatever.

Certainly, we could do no worst than the geniuses at Matchroom.

Lou Figueroa
  
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12-10-2011, 06:40 PM

Well I for one like this angle and think it could work! Who would we blame if we lose?


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12-10-2011, 06:54 PM

What are the match ups tomorrow
  
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12-10-2011, 07:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
Having read through most of the posts re: the Mosconi Cup the last few weeks and having watched a bit of the stream, I have a modest proposal to make, WHICH I fully realize will never be realized (for any number of political reasons), but here goes anyways:

Let the AZ crew -- as the most interested, unbiased, and knowledgable pool aficionados in this country -- be the one's to decide the composition of the next USA Mosconi Cup team by (not unlike the one pocket.org HOF nomination process) polling, voting, general acclaim, whatever.

Certainly, we could do no worst than the geniuses at Matchroom.

Lou Figueroa
"the most unbiased & knowledgable in the country"... wow

you forgot to add humble and self aware


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12-10-2011, 07:15 PM

Our team was just fine as far as its composition.

I look forward to reading how we'd have beaten them if:

a) the races were longer
b) the pockets were tighter
c) we had played ten ball rather than nine ball
d) different players were on the team
e) the European fans hadn't been so boisterous
f) we racked the ball differently or used a different rack
g) we'd played with the "declione the table" option on a miss

....but the real problem is that American players just don't play well enough to snap off many titles these days.

We couldn't even beat a European "B" team of Mark Gray, David Alcaide, Mika Immonen, Thorsten Hohmann, and Huidji See.
  
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12-10-2011, 07:18 PM

Our current crew is capable of getting there, however, adding a couple of tested and proven horses like EARL and HATCH would, imo, maximize our chances.

This group would beat the EURO "B" team and only be slight dogs to their starters.


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Last edited by ribdoner; 12-10-2011 at 07:22 PM.
  
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Change Willie's name???
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Change Willie's name??? - 12-10-2011, 07:58 PM

It is all fine to sit on the sidelines and wish that things were going your way. It is another thing to take another man's product and say you could do better. If Matchroom hadn't done such a good job of running and promoting this event since it's inception then none of the naysayers would even care what happened. It is after all the 'Mosconi Cup'...not the 'AZBilliards Cup'. Every player on each side EARNED their spot based on criteria set by Matchroom. If Earl had performed better in the necessary points contests then he deserves to be on the team. If other players say that they wouldn't play if he did then THEY should forfeit their spot. To work so hard all year to represent your country and then want to pick or choose your teammates is less than patriotic. Ironic in a country that for the most part is over patriotic.

I am sure that most who post here regularly would welcome a great new series where they can pick and choose the contestants. The idea has been floated a few times before so it is nothing new. Problem is where would you get the International infrastructure that comes with a Matchroom event. If it is just for bragging rights on an internet pool forum then I suppose it would be an easy task. I will even offer to start the ball rolling.

Team 1 - Captain/Coach = Earl
Team 2 - Captain/Coach = Johnny
I have gone with the old guard to afford some rivalry at the outset, and both have the experience to act as mentors. Please...no jokes about either's inability to be capable in this area. They have proven their worth tenfold over the years and the idea is to slug it out in a team environment. It may even give the US players some valuable team practice for next year. Now it is up to the AZ community to sort out who would be on each team. Next problem is who will choose the other team members or whether it will simply be by a barrage of votes...or even if Earl and Johnny are interested in participating.
You should also give it a name.
"The AZBilliards Team Challenge"
If you had Matchroom's power you could lobby for the right to name it after a legendary player. Until that time...tick...tick...tick, call it what it is! The possibilities are endless.

At the moment though...'The Mosconi Cup' is owned by Matchroom and they can run it any way they see fit to


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12-10-2011, 10:11 PM

Archer
Hatch
Pagulyan
VanBoening
Deuel

There is my team USA !


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12-11-2011, 12:09 AM

america has dominated the cup so much in its history, matchroom wants the u.s. team to be weak for a while to make people think its actually a close competition.
  
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12-11-2011, 12:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldzilla View Post
Archer
Hatch
Pagulyan
VanBoening
Deuel

There is my team USA !
I thought that Pagulyan or Pagulayan as he is better known, is Filipino/Canadian
  
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12-11-2011, 12:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdxprs View Post
america has dominated the cup so much in its history, matchroom wants the u.s. team to be weak for a while to make people think its actually a close competition.
Matchroom didnīt pick the team, the players did by their performances in various tournaments
  
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12-11-2011, 01:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjm View Post
We couldn't even beat a European "B" team of Mark Gray, David Alcaide, Mika Immonen, Thorsten Hohmann, and Huidji See.



You call that a "B" lineup?


That's not their dream team lineup only because Souquet isn't in it, and as of recent - Appleton. But you do know that See won the World 10 ball right? Alcaide is also very strong and a world class player. Again, not their dream team, but to frame it in terms of the US being bad because they couldn't beat that line up is utterly wrong. The US isn't bad because they couldn't beat that line up. That lineup is stronger than the US team. Simple as that.


Immonen, Souquet, Hohmann, Appleton, and whomever is the hottest that year for a 5th, that team is not beatable by any 5 Americans you could hand pick. I hate to say it, being an American and all - but the EU has the edge.


They have more depth. More tournament strong players who are consistently strong. America's best players are SVB and Deuel. Earl is past his prime. Archer is great and all, but he doesn't get the big wins like the Euro players do. Morris is strong, but when is the last time he won a major tournament?


On the other hand, the Euros are worthless when it comes to long race challenge matches with gambling involved. That's the realm of Americans and Filipinos. That's a different topic. However, it does illustrate the contrast in outlook. Allow me to expand on that....


The Europeans are much more tournament focused. Obviously, winning money is important to all and a top consideration, but the Europeans actually care more about the prestige of it, their careers, their image etcetera. Many of the American players, for them, it's just a job in a sport with little monetary reward. On the whole, there's less passion for accumulating big titles and major wins. Just look at how many of the new generation of US players are distracted by other sports or hobbies and are not fully focused. The older generation is either over the hill, or involved in other types of business or both. For many US players, they've become disillusioned with pool to a degree in that they recognize that for all their talent and time and effort, it's not that great of a living. You have to be amongst the elite to make a decent living.


When I see US players at tournaments, it seems as thought they are there to pay this months rent. That's actually the truth for many of them. They would certainly like to win, and they do appreciate the titles and all that. Just not to the degree the Europeans do.


If anyone disagrees with me, consider the way and manner in which The Euros run their tour in Europe (Eurotour). It's a reflection of their love and respect for the game. It might not have money, but has class. It is very professional.


The sport has changed. Gone are the days of US dominance. It wasn't just the Filipino wave that brought that down, but also the Europeans. It's now a global sport, and one should no longer think in terms of top 10 or 25...but top 100 or 150. There are so many good players that previous champions from the glory days of US pool may not even be in the top 30 worldwide. Or at world class events with huge fields of the strongest players, they don't go far. That's just how it is.


Another thing that confuses people a lot are the rankings. Can't always go by the rankings. Because pool is a dismal sport in terms of payout and money - there's very little incentive for many players to travel and tour. It's expensive to tour. Travel, lodging, food. Not everyone has sponsors. And of those that do, not all sponsors cover a whole lot.


Because of this, the field as you see it in terms of rankings is never accurate. The best of the best are there. They established themselves and play to a level which they make a living. However, there's players who can give most of the top ranked pros a run for their money who themselves have poor rankings. Why? Because they don't go to all the tournaments.


If the vast majority of players of a pro caliber maximized their tournament play - the fields would be much tougher than they are now. As I said, the elite will still be the elite, but there will be far, far less gap separating 1st from 64th. Now, with the low money you see top players struggle in early rounds against lesser known pros. Just imagine if it was worth their time to tour? That's an advantage for players with the ability to tour. They get used to the caliber of play and the conditions of world class events. Compare that to a regional pro, who plays most of their tournaments out of pool halls. Who doesn't play on TV tables ever.


Why did I bring all this up and elaborate? Because that's exactly how it is. In Europe, there are all kinds of players you've never heard of who play a damn fine game. Same is true of Taiwan and the Philippines. Souquet, by any measure is a world class player and among the elite pros. He has to play hard to win those Eurotour stops. It's the same as here in a way. Regional tours in the US have some big names in them. Well, the difference is, a lot of the EU players who play like that don't have a big name. Because they've never come here, or played in Asia. Some Americans have gone there and gotten a small taste of it, and they want no part of it. Brutally tough competition, low payouts. However, very well run, classy events.


Anyway, that's my long winded $0.02.
  
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12-11-2011, 03:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjm View Post
Our team was just fine as far as its composition.

I look forward to reading how we'd have beaten them if:

a) the races were longer
b) the pockets were tighter
c) we had played ten ball rather than nine ball
d) different players were on the team
e) the European fans hadn't been so boisterous
f) we racked the ball differently or used a different rack
g) we'd played with the "declione the table" option on a miss

....but the real problem is that American players just don't play well enough to snap off many titles these days.

We couldn't even beat a European "B" team of Mark Gray, David Alcaide, Mika Immonen, Thorsten Hohmann, and Huidji See.
They would even struggle with a European C team
Karl Boyes
Marcus Chamat
Oliver Ortmann
Imran Majid
Dimitri Jungo

MAYBE THEY WOULD HAVE A CHANCE WITH ANY 5 FROM 20 OF OUR D TEAM
  
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12-11-2011, 03:12 AM

@Bola Ocho

That was the best post i have read here on the board.
It is exactly how you wrote it. Thank you very much.
  
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12-11-2011, 03:22 AM

not to forget the leagues in every country, team matches, doubles in leagues, local championchips, youth training..... on the youth euro championchip a young german did (think he was 17?) 80balls+ runs like it would be nothing. lotta training. pool is also becoming bigger in spain.

the greatest advantage is imho that there are organized teams that can take young talents and put them into competition early (i have already played against 8 year olds in our championchip!) and giving them the support of more experiences players and trainers.
  
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