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evergruven
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a balanced observation- ? - 05-03-2020, 02:53 AM

I was recently handling a cue as if I might actually hit a ball with it
timber up, my grip hand instinctively went to a place so close to the balance point,
that the shaft didn't feel adequately weighted upon my open bridge hand
and I thought, the balance point of this cue is clearly not far enough forward for my liking
so, I moved my grip hand backward to compensate, and my bridge hand followed back with it
my *entire body* followed suit, and where I'd desired to be one with my wand
I could only feel as though my wand was now waving me!
some magician.
sure I could play, but thurston and houdini
seemed so far away..
and I thought
rather than deal with all this hocus-pocus
wouldn't it be better to simply possess a cue that was balanced evenly to begin with?
further I wondered
how many other people go through these same motions?
and do they realize that for each one of us, each of us unique
there is a cue that exists, or can be made
that will meet us in the middle


A billiard table is that richest of metaphors,
by turns a theatre, an altar, touchstone, gauntlet,
ritual ground, a gunfighter's high noon, a refuge,
a verdant landscape for balls to scatter and rest in meaningful synchronicity,
a classroom, a karma dance, mirror of moods, a guide and trusted friend...

-- from grissim's "billiards"
  
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straightline
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05-03-2020, 03:58 AM

I think I've said this already but anyway, I used to buy into that balance point / pendulum / best touch soup of things. House cues would float as would plastic jointed cues. Steel jointed cues worked a lot better. The years spent on that process had also allowed my eyes to grow old forcing me to hold the stick long; as I did as a beginner. After rediscovering and learning once and for all the benefits - better shot framing, better touch due to the long stroke, vastly increased headroom of power, etc...

I can't see going back to the cramped balance point stance.
  
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lfigueroa
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05-03-2020, 07:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
I was recently handling a cue as if I might actually hit a ball with it
timber up, my grip hand instinctively went to a place so close to the balance point,
that the shaft didn't feel adequately weighted upon my open bridge hand
and I thought, the balance point of this cue is clearly not far enough forward for my liking
so, I moved my grip hand backward to compensate, and my bridge hand followed back with it
my *entire body* followed suit, and where I'd desired to be one with my wand
I could only feel as though my wand was now waving me!
some magician.
sure I could play, but thurston and houdini
seemed so far away..
and I thought
rather than deal with all this hocus-pocus
wouldn't it be better to simply possess a cue that was balanced evenly to begin with?
further I wondered
how many other people go through these same motions?
and do they realize that for each one of us, each of us unique
there is a cue that exists, or can be made
that will meet us in the middle

I think different balance points are why some people find they automatically play better with one cue v another.

Lou Figueroa
  
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maha
from way back when
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05-03-2020, 08:02 AM

the standard for balance point was 1/3 of the way up from the butt. if you find something you like better and adjust to that if you change cues you will have to have all custom ones made.
  
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garczar
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05-03-2020, 08:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
I was recently handling a cue as if I might actually hit a ball with it
timber up, my grip hand instinctively went to a place so close to the balance point,
that the shaft didn't feel adequately weighted upon my open bridge hand
and I thought, the balance point of this cue is clearly not far enough forward for my liking
so, I moved my grip hand backward to compensate, and my bridge hand followed back with it
my *entire body* followed suit, and where I'd desired to be one with my wand
I could only feel as though my wand was now waving me!
some magician.
sure I could play, but thurston and houdini
seemed so far away..
and I thought
rather than deal with all this hocus-pocus
wouldn't it be better to simply possess a cue that was balanced evenly to begin with?
further I wondered
how many other people go through these same motions?
and do they realize that for each one of us, each of us unique
there is a cue that exists, or can be made
that will meet us in the middle
Huh?????????????????? I got thru about half of this. You probably need to get out some.
  
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HawaiianEye
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05-03-2020, 10:49 AM

The span between my bridge hand and my grip hand always remains pretty much the same, unless I have to stretch or position my body in some weird angle in order to shoot the shot.

On all my cues, that means my bridge length is around 10 inches from the tip and my grip hand is somewhere around three inches below the top of the wrap. On all my cues, the balance point is 3 - 4 inches above the top of my wrap.

When I pick up a cue with no wrap, I find the balance point and move my grip hand about 6 inches back and using my normal arm span I automatically know where my bridge hand will be. Based upon the cue, that could either lengthen or decrease the distance of my bridge hand to the tip of the cue.


The Hustler

Such a man spends all his life playing every day for small stakes. Give him every morning the money that he may gain during the day, on condition that he does not play-you will make him unhappy. It will perhaps be said what he seeks is the amusement of play, not gain. Let him play then for nothing, he will lose interest and be wearied. ***Blaise Pascal***

Last edited by HawaiianEye; 06-04-2020 at 07:29 PM.
  
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05-03-2020, 04:48 PM

The wrap on all my cues show wear in the same area and it starts 2” below the rings
and extends to 2” above the rings. I change my hand position when the shot requires
a different stroking of the cue ball to get shape for continuing a table run. Normally I
grip my wrap midway but for stroking a cue ball off a rail shot I move my hand position.
For added follow I’ll change hand position but in general, I try to mostly grip it the same.


"My Pool Cues"

*Bob Owen Custom- Level 8 (s/d 4-24-16) - Flat Ivory Joint
*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 6 (s/d 5-4-16) - Flat Ivory Joint

*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 8 (s/d 2-23-15) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Ed Prewitt Custom '05 - Level 8 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Bob Owen Custom - Level 8 (s/d 5-4-14) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Tim Scruggs Custom (05-95) Level 7 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Runde Schon (03-85) Custom "R" Series (1 of 1)
*Palmer (Original) - '72 (All Cocobolo Wood)
  
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Bavafongoul
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05-03-2020, 04:49 PM

The wraps on all my cues show wear in the same area and it starts 2 below the rings
and extends to 2 above the rings. I change my hand position when the shot requires
a different stroking of the cue ball to get shape for continuing a table run. Normally I
grip my wrap midway but for stroking a cue ball off a rail shot I move my hand position.
For added follow Ill change hand position but in general, I try to mostly grip it the same.


"My Pool Cues"

*Bob Owen Custom- Level 8 (s/d 4-24-16) - Flat Ivory Joint
*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 6 (s/d 5-4-16) - Flat Ivory Joint

*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 8 (s/d 2-23-15) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Ed Prewitt Custom '05 - Level 8 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Bob Owen Custom - Level 8 (s/d 5-4-14) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Tim Scruggs Custom (05-95) Level 7 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Runde Schon (03-85) Custom "R" Series (1 of 1)
*Palmer (Original) - '72 (All Cocobolo Wood)
  
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evergruven
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05-03-2020, 05:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by straightline View Post
I think I've said this already but anyway, I used to buy into that balance point / pendulum / best touch soup of things. House cues would float as would plastic jointed cues. Steel jointed cues worked a lot better. The years spent on that process had also allowed my eyes to grow old forcing me to hold the stick long; as I did as a beginner. After rediscovering and learning once and for all the benefits - better shot framing, better touch due to the long stroke, vastly increased headroom of power, etc...

I can't see going back to the cramped balance point stance.
yo straight
thanks for the comment
I like a long stroke/follow through too
that's the way I started to play
and I now wonder if that's due to bp
with the balance point a bit more forward tho
I feel like I can shoot long
and pretty much any other way as well
but I'm definitely still figuring it out
I just don't like the feeling of being forced into a position, y'know?


A billiard table is that richest of metaphors,
by turns a theatre, an altar, touchstone, gauntlet,
ritual ground, a gunfighter's high noon, a refuge,
a verdant landscape for balls to scatter and rest in meaningful synchronicity,
a classroom, a karma dance, mirror of moods, a guide and trusted friend...

-- from grissim's "billiards"
  
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evergruven
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05-03-2020, 05:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garczar View Post
Huh?????????????????? I got thru about half of this. You probably need to get out some.
I'm just exercising my mind pal
otherwise I walk outside daily (safely-distanced, of course)
and play wall tennis when it's not raining
as ever, thanks for your concern


A billiard table is that richest of metaphors,
by turns a theatre, an altar, touchstone, gauntlet,
ritual ground, a gunfighter's high noon, a refuge,
a verdant landscape for balls to scatter and rest in meaningful synchronicity,
a classroom, a karma dance, mirror of moods, a guide and trusted friend...

-- from grissim's "billiards"
  
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evergruven
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05-03-2020, 05:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
I think different balance points are why some people find they automatically play better with one cue v another.

Lou Figueroa
I can dig it, lou
again, why shouldn't we use a cue that seems to naturally "fit" us?
thanks for chiming in


A billiard table is that richest of metaphors,
by turns a theatre, an altar, touchstone, gauntlet,
ritual ground, a gunfighter's high noon, a refuge,
a verdant landscape for balls to scatter and rest in meaningful synchronicity,
a classroom, a karma dance, mirror of moods, a guide and trusted friend...

-- from grissim's "billiards"
  
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evergruven
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05-03-2020, 05:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by maha View Post
the standard for balance point was 1/3 of the way up from the butt. if you find something you like better and adjust to that if you change cues you will have to have all custom ones made.
hi maha
I agree a custom job might be required
could be no small task to figure out what is needed
price could also be a barrier
but if a person is serious about enjoying pool
a truly custom cue could also be a very worthwhile investment!


A billiard table is that richest of metaphors,
by turns a theatre, an altar, touchstone, gauntlet,
ritual ground, a gunfighter's high noon, a refuge,
a verdant landscape for balls to scatter and rest in meaningful synchronicity,
a classroom, a karma dance, mirror of moods, a guide and trusted friend...

-- from grissim's "billiards"
  
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evergruven
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05-03-2020, 05:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawaiianEye View Post
Based upon the cue, that could either lengthen or decrease the distance of my bridge hand to the tip of the cue.
hi 'eye
I've read you have a cue collection, so I'm guessing you don't have much trouble adjusting to different cues
but I'm curious, if you're getting a custom made, do you request a custom balance point with it?


A billiard table is that richest of metaphors,
by turns a theatre, an altar, touchstone, gauntlet,
ritual ground, a gunfighter's high noon, a refuge,
a verdant landscape for balls to scatter and rest in meaningful synchronicity,
a classroom, a karma dance, mirror of moods, a guide and trusted friend...

-- from grissim's "billiards"
  
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HawaiianEye
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05-03-2020, 07:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
hi 'eye
I've read you have a cue collection, so I'm guessing you don't have much trouble adjusting to different cues
but I'm curious, if you're getting a custom made, do you request a custom balance point with it?
I have got three in the last couple of months.

Two of them I haven't shot with yet. One came just yesterday.

I ordered all of them to have a balance point at around 19 inches or there about. All three have a balance point between 19 and 20 inches.

One of the cues is 60 inches and the other two are 58 inches.

All of the shafts between the three cues will fit any of the butts since they are all .850 diameter and have the same 3/8-10 pins. Between those three cues and a Mike Gulyassy 60 inch cue, I have 12 shafts that I can choose from. Some are 29 inch shafts and some are 30 inch shafts and there is a little bit of weight differences between the shafts so I have quite a variation to choose from to mix and match lengths and balance points.

The cue on the top is a Jackpot from the second batch. It is ebony with a camphor burl handle, cored with purple heart by Larry Vigus. It is a 60 inch cue.

The cue in the middle is a John Chaplin cue. It is cocobolo with a sindora burl handle and the entire butt is cored with purple heart. It is a 58 inch cue.

The cue on the bottom is a Jackpot from the first batch. It is ebony with a maple handle and is a 58" cue.
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The Hustler

Such a man spends all his life playing every day for small stakes. Give him every morning the money that he may gain during the day, on condition that he does not play-you will make him unhappy. It will perhaps be said what he seeks is the amusement of play, not gain. Let him play then for nothing, he will lose interest and be wearied. ***Blaise Pascal***

Last edited by HawaiianEye; 05-03-2020 at 08:15 PM.
  
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HawaiianEye
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05-03-2020, 07:54 PM

Here are the balance points on a handful of my other cues.
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The Hustler

Such a man spends all his life playing every day for small stakes. Give him every morning the money that he may gain during the day, on condition that he does not play-you will make him unhappy. It will perhaps be said what he seeks is the amusement of play, not gain. Let him play then for nothing, he will lose interest and be wearied. ***Blaise Pascal***
  
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