2014 US Open 9-Ball Championship: 128-player field, $1,000 entry fee

danomano · Mar 20, 2014

RunoutJJ said:
106 is left over after payouts. Now that doesnt include tables, lights, security, seating, etc etc etc.

** Correction** Left over monies after payout is $100,500.

He is getting this from just adding straight down the list - not factoring in how many people get the payouts...that's where the mistake is from. if you just add out all the pay brackets and don't multiply any by how many people will be getting that payout, its 77,500 which is 100500 short of the 178...hence this posters confusion. Once you multiple the payouts by how many people are getting that payout, the money is right.

JAM · Mar 20, 2014

cardiac kid said:
Please Jen, tell me it really will happen. I'll have to take a few days off just to watch the Keither in action again! Be still my heart.

Lyn

Thanks, Lyn. I tell you, I'm really getting long in the tooth and too doggone tired to work the hours I'm working. I'm on the verge of retiring. If that happens, me and Keith will be on the road again with Mickey. We have to figure out a way to take Mickey with us. I will never leave my dog at home again for pool. No way, Jose! Mickey McCready is family now. :grin-square:

JAM · Mar 20, 2014

Kid Dynomite said:
Jam,

I love your spirit. But, i hate to be a Debbie Downer but the 800 pound gorilla is still there or did it disappear???

Escrow???
Payment Plans???

KD

He said something in the article about having it in escrow for all to see. Read that article, and it explains it better than I can. :wink:

If I go to the tournament, it will be for fun. Keith might want to win it, but for me, I'm going for relaxation and socializing.

Winning is not as important to me anymore.

JAM · Mar 20, 2014

BeiberLvr said:
Someone tell Barry to read the following flaw in his logic.

He wants to continue to pay deep to accommodate the weaker (dead money) players and give them a chance at getting their money back. What he fails to realize is that at $1,000 an entry, not only is he limiting the number of pros that will enter, but is practically eliminating all of the weaker competition that the deeper payouts are geared towards.

128 player cap for logistics reasons is fine, but why not keep the entry at $500 and use these payouts.

128 players x $500 = $64,000 + $50,000 added = $114,000 prize pool

1st $30,000
2nd $20,000
3rd $12,000
4th $5,000
5th $3,500
6th $3,500
7th $3,000
8th $3,000
9th-12th $2,500
13th-16th $2,000
17th-32nd $1,000

Now you're paying out 25% of the field, and giving 1st place a chance at a great payday. Plus, you are absolutely guaranteed to fill the tournament. With the current structure Barry is proposing, he'll be lucky to get 100 players.

I like your breakdown. It does make more sense, and it also will ensure that he will have a full field before day one, which is a problem that has plagued this tournament in the past, those pesky last-minute entries.

BeiberLvr · Mar 20, 2014

lukemindish said:
This is the exact entry fee and payout structure that should be used. Even placing 3rd gets you 12K. In his format now with 1000 entry second place only gets 13k. This makes so much more sense and would most definitely bring in a full field. Its standard for a tournament to pay out 1/4 of the field.

Well hopefully he'll read it and come to his senses. I think he did a lot last year to redeem himself for past mistakes, but seems he is ready to throw it all away.

Nostroke · Mar 20, 2014

Eric. said:
Despite some grumbling, I think the 128 player field is the best option. This isn't a tourney killing change. If anything, this is a different version that just may work out. I see it as one of those "we'll have to see how it actually works out" type of deals. For that matter, wasn't the WPC 9 ball always 128 player fields?

I'm not sure having open, unlimited fields, like Poker, is hte answer either. One of the biggest differences with Poker is that just about every single entrant thinks s/he has a chance to get lucky and go a lot further than expected. It's the Chris Moneymaker factor.
With Pool, there has never been a "Chris Moneymaker" and there never will be. The luck vs skill factor in Pool is a fraction of cards. I'm willing to bet that there has never been anything remotely close to a CM situation, in Pool.

Eric

Hey Eric.
TK winning the event as an amateur was pretty close though IMO

BeiberLvr · Mar 20, 2014

Also look back at the threads for the Bigfoot Challenge ($1,000 entry/16 players).

There were a number of players that were in, but backed out, and even players that turned down invitations in the first place. What makes anyone think it would be any different for this tournament, when

A) Getting a full field isn't guaranteed, which means payouts would be considerably lowered.

B) A lack of weaker players means a much tougher chance at making any money.

sjm · Mar 20, 2014

JAM said:
It looks like Barry Behrman is moving in a good direction for the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship.

$1,000 entry fee with associated expenses for the week-long event will limit the player field, which is a good thing since it is being cut in half. The payouts, however, go to 48th place getting 2 dimes back.

I think this is a good move for the future of the tournament. Yes, it is scaled down, but this is doable. Bravo to Barry Behrman.

Read all about it on AzBilliards Main Page ---> HERE

2014 U.S. Open Payouts
1st $25,000
2nd $13,000
3rd $8,000
4th $7,000
5-6th $5,000
7-8th $4,500
9-12th $4,000
13-16th $3,500
17-24th $3,000
25-32nd $2,500
33-48th $2,000

I agree 100%. If you cash you'll break even or better. The days of having to come in the top few to turn a profit have done nothing for the professional playing community. I'd like to see more tournaments like this.

Surely, there will be some qualifiers in which those intimidated by the entry fee can earn their way in.

Obviously, many will argue that dead money is what finances the US Open, but if that's the case, who needs the US Open? A prestigious event should have an elite field and this is a move in that direction.

The amateurs will always have Derby City if they want to roll the dice on taking down a big name or two.

I think it is possible to fill a field of 128 at this entry fee.

cleary · Mar 20, 2014

Eric. said:
I'm not sure having open, unlimited fields, like Poker, is hte answer either. One of the biggest differences with Poker is that just about every single entrant thinks s/he has a chance to get lucky and go a lot further than expected. It's the Chris Moneymaker factor.
With Pool, there has never been a "Chris Moneymaker" and there never will be. The luck vs skill factor in Pool is a fraction of cards. I'm willing to bet that there has never been anything remotely close to a CM situation, in Pool.

Eric

The point I was making isn't that some random nobody is going to come out of nowhere to win the US Open, the point is... get as many people on earth to pay their entry.

If you have a product, here are two ways to bring in a million in sales. $1,000,000 per unit, sell 1 unit or $1 per unit, sell $1,000,000 units. Sure, those are two extremes but the pet rock sold pretty well...

More entries=more money in players pockets.

Kid Dynomite · Mar 20, 2014

JAM said:
He said something in the article about having it in escrow for all to see. Read that article, and it explains it better than I can. :wink:

If I go to the tournament, it will be for fun. Keith might want to win it, but for me, I'm going for relaxation and socializing. Winning is not as important to me anymore.

I am playing REAL good lately. But, play at home on BIG BERTHA !!! Tell Keith if he wants to get in stroke he is always welcome to come by!!!

KD

Eric. · Mar 20, 2014

Nostroke said:
Hey Eric.
TK winning the event as an amateur was pretty close though IMO

Maybe. I'll agree that TK was definitely a long shot to win the US Open but it's not like he wasn't a highly skilled poolplayer already.

I guess I should have defined my statement a lil more. In pool terms, Chris Moneymaker was an A player. A higher level amateur, for sure, but no top Poker player.

Do you ever see an "A" poolplayer ever getting to the finals of a major tourney, let alone, winning it?

Eric

Kid Dynomite · Mar 20, 2014

JAM said:
Thanks, Lyn. I tell you, I'm really getting long in the tooth and too doggone tired to work the hours I'm working. I'm on the verge of retiring. If that happens, me and Keith will be on the road again with Mickey. We have to figure out a way to take Mickey with us. I will never leave my dog at home again for pool. No way, Jose! Mickey McCready is family now. :grin-square:

Old man Mickey would be honored that you choose his name for your pet. I will always remember his red hat and the pieces of candy in his pocket at ALL times. R.I.P. Mickey.

Mike
KD

NYC cue dude · Mar 20, 2014

JAM said:
Thanks, Lyn. I tell you, I'm really getting long in the tooth and too doggone tired to work the hours I'm working. I'm on the verge of retiring. If that happens, me and Keith will be on the road again with Mickey. We have to figure out a way to take Mickey with us. I will never leave my dog at home again for pool. No way, Jose! Mickey McCready is family now. :grin-square:

I hear you Jam. My dog goes everywhere with me. Plane, train and automobile. If she can't go with me, I ain't goin.

one stroke · Mar 20, 2014

BeiberLvr said:
Also look back at the threads for the Bigfoot Challenge ($1,000 entry/16 players).

There were a number of players that were in, but backed out, and even players that turned down invitations in the first place. What makes anyone think it would be any different for this tournament, when

A) Getting a full field isn't guaranteed, which means payouts would be considerably lowered.

B) A lack of weaker players means a much tougher chance at making any money.

The mantle looks a lot better with a US open trophy ,, don't have to explain that to the grand kids

1

Eric. · Mar 20, 2014

cleary said:
The point I was making isn't that some random nobody is going to come out of nowhere to win the US Open, the point is... get as many people on earth to pay their entry.

If you have a product, here are two ways to bring in a million in sales. $1,000,000 per unit, sell 1 unit or $1 per unit, sell $1,000,000 units. Sure, those are two extremes but the pet rock sold pretty well...

More entries=more money in players pockets.

That might work on paper, but like a lot of things, it's different when the rubber meets the road.

In one scenario, if you have bigger fields and lower entries, you have more shortstops taht will enter cuz they have a good chance of cashing, knowing there will be more cannon fodder in the field. This was the old model and the field was rarely over 200+ players.

In another scenario, you can drop the entry to a hypothetical $100, have a huge field cap and try to draw in people who wouldn't fire $1000 or $500 in the air, but wouldn't mind kicking in a benny, for kicks.

Here's the devil in the details; the costs per person/player. It costs $X.00 per anticipated player for tables, staff and room size. If you have a much larger field, you need more tables, more staff and more floor space. With the already thin margins for tourneys, this might put you in the red.

Now, you can try a workaround like holding the prelim rounds at Q Master ala WSOP style. This might work for larger fields. But, you might have a new problem. How many players will be willing to spend 7-14 days for the tournament? If you area top player, you will go deep in the event. With larger fields, now you incur nad extra 3,4,5 days hotel. This means higher costs to outrun. If the field doesn't have enough new players contributing to the pot, then your net might be less than if you had a smaller field and shorter tourney.

Eric

gxman · Mar 20, 2014

Have the tournament at Lacys Cue in new orleans. 17 brand new diamond 7ft, 16 new 9ft. a 10ft diamond too. Pour all the room rental money into the tournament for huge and deep payouts.

NYC cue dude · Mar 20, 2014

Eric. said:
That might work on paper, but like a lot of things, it's different when the rubber meets the road.

In one scenario, if you have bigger fields and lower entries, you have more shortstops taht will enter cuz they have a good chance of cashing, knowing there will be more cannon fodder in the field. This was the old model and the field was rarely over 200+ players.

In another scenario, you can drop the entry to a hypothetical $100, have a huge field cap and try to draw in people who wouldn't fire $1000 or $500 in the air, but wouldn't mind kicking in a Benny, for kicks.

Here's the devil in the details; the costs per person/player. It costs $X.00 per anticipated player for tables, staff and room size. If you have a much larger field, you need more tables, more staff and more floor space. With the already thin margins for tourneys, this might put you in the red.

Now, you can try a workaround like holding the prelim rounds at Q Master ala WSOP style. This might work for larger fields. But, you might have a new problem. How many players will be willing to spend 7-14 days for the tournament? If you area top player, you will go deep in the event. With larger fields, now you incur nad extra 3,4,5 days hotel. This means higher costs to outrun. If the field doesn't a lot more new players contributing to the pot, then your net might be less than if you had a smaller field and shorter tourney.

Eric

You could have the tournament in 2 stages. Stage 1 is $200 entry. Unlimited size field, but would need several hundred competitors. They play down to the final 24. Those 24 advance to the 104 top players that pay $1000 entry, but don't have to be present for the first 5 or so days of the tournament. And, stage 1 can be held anywhere with reasonable accommodations.

measureman · Mar 20, 2014

JAM said:
Expenses and entry fee for a week-long event is financially difficult to overcome. With less players, I'm wondering if he can lessen the amount of time required to be there. Seven to eight days is brutal.

There are ways to cut costs, but most people do want to enjoy this week-long event and not eat fast-food, sleep at flea-bit hotels, or share rooms[/B]. Anyway, that's how I see it.

We're hoping to make it this year. I said that last year, but the government shutdown put a monkey wrench in my plans.

Why take all the fun out of it?
Shane will be happy with the 25k payout.

Eric. · Mar 20, 2014

NYC cue dude said:
You could have the tournament in 2 stages. Stage 1 is $200 entry. Unlimited size field, but would need several hundred competitors. They play down to the final 24. Those 24 advance to the 104 top players that pay $1000 entry, but don't have to be present for the first 5 or so days of the tournament. And, stage 1 can be held anywhere with reasonable accommodations.

Randy,

The idea has been kicked around, in the past. If you hold the initial stage of the event at Q Master, that might the only way to keep costs in check. Otherwise, if you have to rent tables and floor space, then it doesnt make sense for Barry.

Eric

Nostroke · Mar 20, 2014

Eric. said:
Maybe. I'll agree that TK was definitely a long shot to win the US Open but it's not like he wasn't a highly skilled poolplayer already.

I guess I should have defined my statement a lil more. In pool terms, Chris Moneymaker was an A player. A higher level amateur, for sure, but no top Poker player.

Do you ever see an "A" poolplayer ever getting to the finals of a major tourney, let alone, winning it?

Eric

Well i will cite one SPECIAL case just for laughs-

Art Wiggins (Ga) won a 64 man single elim event with LUAT, Alcano, Hundal etc to qualify (onsite) for the WPC in Cardiff. Just about everyone who could play that hadnt been invited was there-2003 or so id guess. I get years mixed up so i cant say for sure those 3 above played that year but if not players just like that.

It was however a race to ONE. Still i couldnt believe it- He was the worst or 2nd worst in the field-probably get the 6 out from half the field. But other than that TK was closest

2014 US Open 9-Ball Championship: 128-player field, $1,000 entry fee

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