Discussion" Blanks Blanks Blanks

I do care

I do care a lot actually, unless it is a sneaky pete conversion type cue.

I want to know if someone is using a blank or they are doing it themself.

If it is a veneered blank I want to know who made it...also the higher the status of the person making the blank, the more the cue is worth.

You missed Prather, he is making some really tight work, with great woods, going to a lot of people out there.

I have heard that there are some cuemakers that are using blanks and passing it off as their own work, that is totally wrong.

Jazz said:

When choosing a cue, how many you really care where the cue maker made the blank or not? And (why) does it affect one's perception of cue value?

And if the blanks were not made by the cue maker, does it matter where the blanks came from and does it affect the value of the cue. I know of Davis, Schmelke, Barringer, Mark Bear and Duc as the source of full splice blanks and I'm sure there are many others.

Does statement such as "if so and so cue maker made the blank, I'd bought it in a heartbeat" have validity?

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as long as the wood is good and the blank is sound it doesn't matter to me,but i don't feel the cuemaker should take credit for the blank part if someone else made it.

Blanks

masonh said:

as long as the wood is good and the blank is sound it doesn't matter to me,but i don't feel the cuemaker should take credit for the blank part if someone else made it.

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Tap! Tap! Tap!

Jazz said:

When choosing a cue, how many you really care where the cue maker made the blank or not? And (why) does it affect one's perception of cue value?

And if the blanks were not made by the cue maker, does it matter where the blanks came from and does it affect the value of the cue. I know of Davis, Schmelke, Barringer, Mark Bear and Duc as the source of full splice blanks and I'm sure there are many others.

Does statement such as "if so and so cue maker made the blank, I'd bought it in a heartbeat" have validity?

Click to expand...

When choosing a cue, how many you really care where the cue maker made the blank or not? And (why) does it affect one's perception of cue value?

To me the cues value would have to suffer for a collectible cue, but not a player. To me for a cue to be collectible, it must be Antique, or made by a well respected custom cue maker. To expand on this, in my opinion some one who uses prefabricated blanks purchased from some else is not truly a cue maker, they are cue assemblers. I understand that sometimes Respected Cue Makers do make some cues from fabricated blanks made else where. My comments are for those like myself at present who do not or can not make their own blanks. Now these statements only apply to cue makers of today, the cue makers of the old days are not included in the above.

Does statement such as "if so and so cue maker made the blank, I'd bought it in a heartbeat" have validity?[/QUOTE]

I think the blank should have some baring on the price of the cue. Blanks made overseas, again only in my opinion are not made to the same standards as blanks made by respected cue makers in the USA. The adhesives used and the materials used are not always up to a quality standard that I would want to use.

When choosing a cue, how many you really care where the cue maker made the blank or not? And (why) does it affect one's perception of cue value?

I suspect that the real question should be how many understand the cue market well enough to know how much the above can effect the cues resale price. Now this mainly applies to collectible cues, but as a billiards retailer I can not tell you how many people walk into my business daily thinking that they have a valuable cue. When it fact, there is nothing collectible about the cue other than the fact that some one in the local Pub told them it was rare. Another factor that applies to the above is what some one is told when they purchase the item. Honesty is not always the policy when selling cues or anything else for that matter.

First of all, as Ho, and many others probably know by now, I am a full splice fan. I love both veneered and non-veneered full splices...love 'em, love 'em, love 'em...maybe it's all that wood.

With regards to if it is important if the cuemaker made the blank himself...well, for me it is generally preferred...but not an absolute requirement, as long as I know this up front, and it is a superior quality blank from a named source.

I guess, for me, it seems extra special when a high quality blank was crafted by the cuemaker. This may be because I know that it involves much more time and work...(sweat and blood)...to make a high quality blank. While the trade-off is a longer build time, the up-side is that, very often, the possible wood combinations that are available can make it very, very much worth the wait. I also like the that it allows the cuemaker to take advantage of their well-seasoned stock, and put together some exceptional pieces of the desired woods requested. Inlays are nice, but there is just something about the inherent beauty of wood that really thrills me.

Does it add to the value? I may not be the best one to answer this. When I find a cue that has exceptional woods in it, and plays like nothing I have ever experienced before, well...it's priceless! That being said...I would have to guess that it would add to the value in some manner, simply because, very often, the initial cost was higher.

With that said...there are some cuemakers making full splice blanks that are flying under the radar, and other cuemakers taking advantage of this source to make some very fine cues. There are other cuemakers who are taking the time to hand-pick blanks from the more well-known sources, and producing some equally fine cues. I would not have a problem with either one of these types of cues, as long as the cuemaker were up front about their source.

I also think I am a bit of a masochist, because it is not as easy as one might think to find a cuemaker that actually does craft their own blanks. I know, I ask all the time; the list is pretty short.

So, those are my thoughts on the topic...would be interested to hear what others think as well.

Lisa

manwon said:

When choosing a cue, how many you really care where the cue maker made the blank or not? And (why) does it affect one's perception of cue value?

To me the cues value would have to suffer for a collectible cue, but not a player. To me for a cue to be collectible, it must be Antique, or made by a well respected custom cue maker. To expand on this, in my opinion some one who uses prefabricated blanks purchased from some else is not truly a cue maker, they are cue assemblers. I understand that sometimes Respected Cue Makers do make some cues from fabricated blanks made else where. My comments are for those like myself at present who do not or can not make their own blanks. Now these statements only apply to cue makers of today, the cue makers of the old days are not included in the above.

Does statement such as "if so and so cue maker made the blank, I'd bought it in a heartbeat" have validity?

Click to expand...

I think the blank should have some baring on the price of the cue. Blanks made overseas, again only in my opinion are not made to the same standards as blanks made by respected cue makers in the USA. The adhesives used and the materials used are not always up to a quality standard that I would want to use.

When choosing a cue, how many you really care where the cue maker made the blank or not? And (why) does it affect one's perception of cue value?

I suspect that the real question should be how many understand the cue market well enough to know how much the above can effect the cues resale price. Now this mainly applies to collectible cues, but as a billiards retailer I can not tell you how many people walk into my business daily thinking that they have a valuable cue. When it fact, there is nothing collectible about the cue other than the fact that some one in the local Pub told them it was rare. Another factor that applies to the above is what some one is told when they purchase the item. Honesty is not always the policy when selling cues or anything else for that matter.[/QUOTE]


Well said, Craig! Jeez tho', your reply was so well organized and thought out...hell, I just write down what pops into my head...lol.

Lisa

I don't really care as long as I know about it in advance. Some cuemakers I expect it from, others I'm sure I'd be surprised.

I'd happily take a cue with a Bear or Davis blank. I've had cues with blanks from prather and others.

Sneaky type cues I know they are blanks from others and thats what I shoot with most of the time. Higher end cue I'd like to know if the cuemaker is making it or not. Part of what I'm paying for on the higher end cue is the selection of wood, its uses in the cue, so would like to know where its from.

Jazz said:

When choosing a cue, how many you really care where the cue maker made the blank or not? And (why) does it affect one's perception of cue value?

And if the blanks were not made by the cue maker, does it matter where the blanks came from and does it affect the value of the cue. I know of Davis, Schmelke, Barringer, Mark Bear and Duc as the source of full splice blanks and I'm sure there are many others.

Does statement such as "if so and so cue maker made the blank, I'd bought it in a heartbeat" have validity?

Click to expand...

Well in regards to older cues, Paradise never made a blank, and they are still very sought after and it's a shame he doesn't get the real credit he deserves. Balabushka, used supplied blanks, by Spain, Szamboti and he started with a titlist. In the latter case his cues values are affected by the blanks. These cuemakers however didn't face the scrutiny that has befallen the cue makers of today. They didn't have to "pre" qualify for the ACA, ICA, or collectors.
Today, IMHO, right or wrong a cue made with a Davis blank maybe more valuable then one of the others. Davis having the lineage to the olden days. I think how hot the cuemaker is will also determine that. I see Sugartree made one with a Davis blank, would the same cue and a Prather blank be as valuable, I don't believe it would. But in the end, it's the buyers feeling that really matters. If you buy a cue and it has your idea of the perfect hit, do you really care?

JV

As a buyer, I don't really care as long as the cuemaker is upfront about it and names the source/maker of the blank, plus the cue was made according to what was decided.

BlowFish said:

As a buyer, I don't really care as long as the cuemaker is upfront about it and names the source/maker of the blank, plus the cue was made according to what was decided.

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OK, Edwin's making me a short-splice blank.
Curly purpleheart forearm with 4-points of ambuyna with 3 veneers.
CHAR!

JoeyInCali said:

OK, Edwin's making me a short-splice blank.
Curly purpleheart forearm with 4-points of ambuyna with 3 veneers.
CHAR!

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Edwin's Purpleheart and Amboyna stash are really good. This should be good cue. Better order from Joey now.

What about the high end guy that has an apprentice or employee that's using a dedicated machine indexing and cutting points, glueing up veneers, then running the blanks through a taper machine and spraying and buffing the finished cues. Shouldn't that makers demand and price suffer? It doesn't, and I know it happens. I agree that anyone using pre-fabricated parts should disclose this info if asked, but if those parts are made in my shop, with my materials, and my techniques, by my employee, would you think less of my cue? Isn't that close to the same as buying outside your shop.

I've built cues both ways. All of my sneakies come from outside sources, and most of my short splice cues are built by me, but I do have several Prather forearms that have quality woods, and I can't wait to see them in a finished cue. I hope to be as proud of those as something that I built myself.

Today, IMHO, right or wrong a cue made with a Davis blank maybe more valuable then one of the others. Davis having the lineage to the olden days. I think how hot the cuemaker is will also determine that. I see Sugartree made one with a Davis blank, would the same cue and a Prather blank be as valuable, I don't believe it would. But in the end, it's the buyers feeling that really matters. If you buy a cue and it has your idea of the perfect hit, do you really care?
agreed

sliprock said:

What about the high end guy that has an apprentice or employee that's using a dedicated machine indexing and cutting points, glueing up veneers, then running the blanks through a taper machine and spraying and buffing the finished cues. Shouldn't that makers demand and price suffer? It doesn't, and I know it happens. I agree that anyone using pre-fabricated parts should disclose this info if asked, but if those parts are made in my shop, with my materials, and my techniques, by my employee, would you think less of my cue? Isn't that close to the same as buying outside your shop.

I've built cues both ways. All of my sneakies come from outside sources, and most of my short splice cues are built by me, but I do have several Prather forearms that have quality woods, and I can't wait to see them in a finished cue. I hope to be as proud of those as something that I built myself.

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Since it's all being done 'in house', I do not think it would affect the relative value. Bob Frey made the blanks and then the complete cue..referencing the s/p's...for the Scruggs shop, and it does not appear to have had an impact on the value of those cues.

Lisa

It Really Doesn't Matter To Me As Long As It's A Good Solid Blank.

The Only Blanks I Add Value For Are The Szamboti Blank That Gus Did. Maybe Something Odd Would Add Value As Well, Like A Cue Built On A Blank That Hercek Built.

P.s. As An After Thought. If It Is A Cue Made By Someone That Normally Makes There Own Blanks, And The Blank Isn't As Good As One They Would Make, I Would Detract Value From A Cue.

classiccues said:

Well in regards to older cues, Paradise never made a blank, and they are still very sought after and it's a shame he doesn't get the real credit he deserves. Balabushka, used supplied blanks, by Spain, Szamboti and he started with a titlist. In the latter case his cues values are affected by the blanks. These cuemakers however didn't face the scrutiny that has befallen the cue makers of today. They didn't have to "pre" qualify for the ACA, ICA, or collectors.
Today, IMHO, right or wrong a cue made with a Davis blank maybe more valuable then one of the others. Davis having the lineage to the olden days. I think how hot the cuemaker is will also determine that. I see Sugartree made one with a Davis blank, would the same cue and a Prather blank be as valuable, I don't believe it would. But in the end, it's the buyers feeling that really matters. If you buy a cue and it has your idea of the perfect hit, do you really care?

JV

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I agree, Joe, that the Davis blank SugarTree would have more value than say a similar cue from a Prather blank...for the same reasons that are referenced above.

With that said, even more valuable, to me, would be if I could get a SugarTree from a SugarTree blank. Why? Because I know he can, and because he thinks outside the box with regards to different wood combinations...and I like that option, and would be willing to pay more for it. Of course, this is with regards to a full splice cue.

Lisa

ridewiththewind said:

I agree, Joe, that the Davis blank SugarTree would have more value than say a similar cue from a Prather blank...for the same reasons that are referenced above.

With that said, even more valuable, to me, would be if I could get a SugarTree from a SugarTree blank. Why? Because I know he can, and because he thinks outside the box with regards to different wood combinations...and I like that option, and would be willing to pay more for it. Of course, this is with regards to a full splice cue.

Lisa

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Lisa,
I have yet to see a pointed, veneered Sugar Tree. I will have to defer till I see one.

JV

classiccues said:

Lisa,
I have yet to see a pointed, veneered Sugar Tree. I will have to defer till I see one.

JV

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LoL....Sorry Joe, I was actually referring to his non-veneered full splice blanks. I am not sure that I have seen one of his veneered blanks, or if he has even done one. However, he does strike me as a perfectionist, like another cuemaker we know.

Lisa

i think this thread is getting alittle off topic from the originally intended question. so here is my feeble attempt at an answer as i percieved and interpreted the question.

lets consider a cuemaker, bob, makes his own splices. would or should a cue from bob that he spliced start to finish and completed in house hold or bring the same value or price as a cue bob built from a blank he purchased elseware regardless of where he got it...prather, cue components, davis, sweatshop in china, whatever....

i think it would be unethical and irrisponsible of the cuemaker to not divuldge the source of said blank or to claim it as his own work, as well i don't think it should bring the same price either as the time and labor in building the splice isn't his either. if it takes 1-2-6 months whatever to turn and assemble a blank, why should, as manwon put it, a cue assembaler profit off someone elses hard work?

would it really be ethical for bob to charge the same 500-600 or whatever for that cue he made from a blank in a few as the one that took him however many months to assemble? or alternitivly, should or would cue maker bill be justified in charging the same amount for a cue he assembled from a blank as cue maker bob that built the cue from scratch start to finish? i dont think so.

but that is just my opinion as a buyer, so please keep in mind, as emotions tend to run rampent around here and can tend to create flam wars, its just that, my opinion.


disclaimer: cuemakers bob and bill are entirly fictional for use in the above scenerios and examples. they are in no way based on any living or non living persons.