Break Speed

I'm thinking it was Earl Strickland, but maybe it was Johnny Archer. There was some kind of team event going on & the players were having trouble with launching the cue ball.

The leader decided they needed to do some practice with the cue ball placement, so as to time the Hop of the cue ball. If the bounce arc is on the up part of the arc, the cue ball can be launched, If the cue ball is on the downward part of the arc, it caroms off the lead ball & gives us that hop. With some fwd spin, The cue ball has some brakes to stop it's backward roll.

I believe I'm correct in stating, the hops are halved at each bounce, so slight movement forward or backward might make a good deal of difference.

The drawing below, is in a book, co-authored with Joe Tucker. It is titled, "the Great Break Shot"...

dr_dave said:

Agreed. Although, a slight amount of topspin is required to squat the rock. For those interested, more info (and demonstrations) can be found on the CB squat and hop resource page.

Regards,
Dave

Click to expand...

Doc, a scene just came to me about hitting dead ball on the break.
Edgar White (Shake n Bake)....playing nine-ball $1.000 a game....
...he was breaking center table, the cue ball was coming back to the end rail and going
back past the side pockets.
I asked him after the session why he was drawing on the break.
Edgar said "I wasn't drawing....the cue-ball is small and light, it was drawing all bu itself.
A lot of players cue it a little above center to make it park....
...but they're losing cue-ball speed."

So here I am imposing on you again, Doc...could you examine that thinking?

Edgar was a fine player....many players of his caliber know things empirically ....
....and I have a feeling you may be able to explain why his feeling are correct.

I met Edgar a couple years later and told him I had some book proof that agreed with him...
....the test with a ball, a cylinder, and a cube....you may know it.

regards
pt....who misses Edgar....may he rest in peace

pt109 said:

A lot of players cue it a little above center to make it park....
...but they're losing cue-ball speed."... Doc...could you examine that thinking?

Click to expand...

Every decent breaker cues a hair above center to squat the rock. The amount of CB speed and break "power" lost is minimal since the amount of topspin is very little, and leaving the CB close to the center of the table is a big advantage.

FYI, this effect is clearly explained and demonstrated on the break CB squat resource page and in the following video:

NV D.14 - Pool Break Technique Advice - from Vol-III of the Billiard University instructional DVD series

Regards,
Dave

noMoreSchon said:

Well, everyone was talking about this Breakspeed app, I downloaded it, and I assumed it

works with the sound of the rack. After playing around with it I started having it 'listen' to

pros break on YouTube...and it works there also. Who really knows how accurate, but it

gave me a MPH...Have fun...

Click to expand...

I've done a search and can't find anything on it.
What app is this you speak of?
TIA

Ipmtim said:

I've done a search and can't find anything on it.
What app is this you speak of?
TIA

Click to expand...

my break speed. search for that.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.cymobilesoftware.breakspeedpro&hl=en

KMRUNOUT

There really is another piece to that puzzle, which is referred to as "Position on the Lead Ball or Next Ball". A good square hit on the lead ball, that we all try for, just might not give us a desired outcome. I've seen the cue ball stick on the one ball initially, but now the one ball is now on the end rail.

As you break from different places in the Kitchen & shoot at different points on the lead ball, please realize the one ball's path may change, which can defeat your original goal of having a good shot at the lead ball., BUT, in 8-ball, things aren't that bad. There are lots of different games & different strategies for a good break.

There a few things that you do not want to do;

Launch the cue ball, Scratch, end up in the rack area in 8-ball & get unlucky (sorry, can't help you with that unlucky business).

Remember, the Break Shot is an advantage or a disadvantage... it's your choice. Practice the shot, it deserves your attention.

ceebee said:

There really is another piece to that puzzle, which is referred to as "Position on the Lead Ball or Next Ball". A good square hit on the lead ball, that we all try for, just might not give us a desired outcome. I've seen the cue ball stick on the one ball initially, but now the one ball is now on the end rail.

As you break from different places in the Kitchen & shoot at different points on the lead ball, please realize the one ball's path may change, which can defeat your original goal of having a good shot at the lead ball., BUT, in 8-ball, things aren't that bad. There are lots of different games & different strategies for a good break.

There a few things that you do not want to do;

Launch the cue ball, Scratch, end up in the rack area in 8-ball & get unlucky (sorry, can't help you with that unlucky business).

Remember, the Break Shot is an advantage or a disadvantage... it's your choice. Practice the shot, it deserves your attention.

Click to expand...

Charlie,

I can't say enough good things about your Break Rak. I was an early adopter...I have the original design. I think it is tremendous...definitely one of the best investments I've ever made. I get a lot of compliments about my break. Some people think I hit it so hard, but really I just learned to hit it very square and with a nice pop that the Break Rak really promotes. One time long ago at some Super Billiards Expo someone had one set up, and they placed a battery, like an old C cell or something, standing up behind the back ball. Now with the new design, this might not work the same, but the old design with the 5 balls, diamond shape...the idea was to place the battery standing up a distance behind the back ball, and knock it over by pushing the whole rack back. The concept of hitting the rack to feel the maximum push, the furtherst *movement* of the rack, is the exact feeling that promotes that huge pop explosion type action on the rack.

Anyway, thanks for making this thing. I am shocked more people are not using it than already do!!

KMRUNOUT

Thanks very much KMRUNOUT... there are lots of the best players, that have Breakraks & none of the worst.players have one. When they sold the Snooker Table where I play, I realized very quickly, if you don't have a break shot, you can't win the big prize. That's when I designed the BreakRAK.

Pool Players like to play, they do not like to practice. That's okay, I'll stay busy until I'm gone & take care of the customers I have.

Good Luck to all...

KMRUNOUT said:

my break speed. search for that.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.cymobilesoftware.breakspeedpro&hl=en

KMRUNOUT

Click to expand...

Thanks, I found that one an another.
Just wondering if one is better than the other.
Tim

Ipmtim said:

Thanks, I found that one an another.
Just wondering if one is better than the other.
Tim

Click to expand...

I was only aware of one. It was originally called "My Break Spead." There was a website mybreakspeed.com. You could download the iOS or android version there. I believe the designer is Paul Nettle if I remember correctly. This version was sold to Predator, or sponsored by Predator, so that their name is now on it. FYI, the iOS version works quite a lot better than the android version.

This one works VERY well. I wasn't aware of any others so can't comment on those. When ever you heard anyone talk about the break speed app, they were undoubtedly talking about this one.

Hope it helps,

KMRUNOUT

MuchoBurrito said:

Wow, she crushes that.

I think he technique is very odd though, the way she elevates the back of her cue with her body so dramatically, I'm not sure I would advise people to try and copy that, it seems like it would be difficult to do. But you can't argue with her results.

I would say that the players with the best break strokes that I have seen are (in no particular order), Shane, Alex P., Jeff Ignacio & Chezka Centeno. Shane and Alex have very smooth, effortless strokes, Jeff and Chezka have more explosive body action.

Click to expand...

Nobody said it was easy!! The question was how to break harder. This is a pretty standard technique for power breaking.

Back in the days when Shane was really crushing the rack, he did the same thing. I just think she's the best (most consistent) with it.

Check out how high Busty gets.

I ran across this information I've posted before & it fits this area.

Practice, Practice, Practice ! The more you develop a Rhythm & build your Coordination, the more Accuracy you will have & the more Speed you will be able to control.

Hope this helps.

Thanks KMRUNOUT... for your kind words

Scott Lee said:

Simply not true. You can deliver a 20+ mph break using a pure pendulum swing. You're right, in that it's all about the timing. The cue weight is 3x as much as the CB, so tons of kinetic energy can be created with just the the cue weight and perfect timing. Excessive body movement, and excessive followthrough do nothing to improve the accuracy necessary on the break. Lunging at the break is a waste of time and effort...and actually can result in injuring yourself. If you're doing ANYTHING in any manner that causes pain, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Click to expand...

You know, I'd love to see one of those 20+ mph breaks using the arm swing only. Not saying it cannot be done, I'd just like to see it. Measured with a radar gun and with accurate cueball control as well, please.

In the mean time I'll continue trying to emulate the pros breaks. There has been a lot of misinformation here lately. I'd like to correct that once and for all by linking to maybe the best instructional video ever made by an Az member. Colin Colenso's break video. Try to hit then as hard as he does with arm only..lol..not happening. Not even close.

If your're old and frail, then of course these movements may not be good for you, but if you are in at least decent health then they should be no problem. My back is not good by any standard, but it still stands up to the forces generated by a pro-style break. My arm-only break would be similar to that of a 12 year old girls, so it's not like I have much of a choice in the matter.,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW1tsONEI_U

I picked up your breakrak fairly soon after you first started selling it. It is my go-to tool for working on my break shot in rotation.. In fact it is one of the few pool gadgets I have left.

Thank you.

Anthony Marcino ----> who seemed to create some hub-bub in this thread.

p.s. I will still use an athletic break-shot until I am too old and frail to do otherwise. Then I will start playing one pocket.

:wink:

ceebee said:

There really is another piece to that puzzle, which is referred to as "Position on the Lead Ball or Next Ball". A good square hit on the lead ball, that we all try for, just might not give us a desired outcome. I've seen the cue ball stick on the one ball initially, but now the one ball is now on the end rail.

As you break from different places in the Kitchen & shoot at different points on the lead ball, please realize the one ball's path may change, which can defeat your original goal of having a good shot at the lead ball., BUT, in 8-ball, things aren't that bad. There are lots of different games & different strategies for a good break.

There a few things that you do not want to do;

Launch the cue ball, Scratch, end up in the rack area in 8-ball & get unlucky (sorry, can't help you with that unlucky business).

Remember, the Break Shot is an advantage or a disadvantage... it's your choice. Practice the shot, it deserves your attention.

Click to expand...

I missed this thread. You got some excellent advise and video resources to review. I will only add one thing that I am not sure was mentioned.

Work to develop the muscles in your upper arm, you want to develop those fast twitch muscle fibers. Heaver weights - less repetitions will help. You don't want to build endurance you want speed and explosion. (think the difference between a sprinter and a distance runner.) 3-5 reps MAX

Seated dumbbell curls are an excellent way to start.

tashworth19191 said:

I have been trying to get my break speed up a little and average between 17~19 mph. I am over 60 and think I have lost a lot on my break. What is your break speed?

I have tried many different ways to increase the speed, but I top out at 21 mph and it is out of control. Any tips on increasing speed would be appreciated...

Click to expand...

ceebee said:

I ran across this information I've posted before & it fits this area.

Practice, Practice, Practice ! The more you develop a Rhythm & build your Coordination, the more Accuracy you will have & the more Speed you will be able to control.

Hope this helps.

Thanks KMRUNOUT... for your kind words

Click to expand...

My pleasure Charlie. I really love the Break Rak. Maybe I'll practice with my new break shaft today!

KMRUNOUT

Well it's not coming from the professional instructors. You can do whatever you choose, but Colin's video demonstration is certainly not for everyone...and anyone who thinks that is the only way to break is misinformed. MOST players have less then optimal timing, and make themselves prone to injury by trying to incorporate their shoulder into the break. Ceebee's Break Rak is an excellent tool to develop good timing and accuracy on the break.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Straightpool_99 said:

There has been a lot of misinformation here lately.

Click to expand...

Straightpool_99 said:

You know, I'd love to see one of those 20+ mph breaks using the arm swing only. Not saying it cannot be done, I'd just like to see it. Measured with a radar gun and with accurate cueball control as well, please.

In the mean time I'll continue trying to emulate the pros breaks. There has been a lot of misinformation here lately. I'd like to correct that once and for all by linking to maybe the best instructional video ever made by an Az member. Colin Colenso's break video. Try to hit then as hard as he does with arm only..lol..not happening. Not even close.

If your're old and frail, then of course these movements may not be good for you, but if you are in at least decent health then they should be no problem. My back is not good by any standard, but it still stands up to the forces generated by a pro-style break. My arm-only break would be similar to that of a 12 year old girls, so it's not like I have much of a choice in the matter.,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW1tsONEI_U

Click to expand...

You'd be surprised what you can do with an arm only break. It is a *great* way to break 9 ball. In 8 or 10 ball, you really need a damn tight rack to get good results hitting below 18 or 20 mph. Many people simply do not have the strength or timing to get to that speed with arm only.

I'm pretty sure I can hit 20 mph with arm only. I'll try to video that and post it.

I think it is best to learn both the arm only style of break, and the big pro power break style as well.

There are many techniques that can add significant power that cost very little in accuracy as well. Your *hand* is a goldmine of power. Learn to let the cue rest on your fingers, and then snap your hand closed, almost like you are having your fingers slap the cue against your palm. Do this right at impact and it adds a great deal of power. You need to learn to isolate the muscles that do this, so that you aren't twisting your wrist.

Hope this helps,

KMRUNOUT

Here's a piece of advice that hasn't been suggested to the OP:

Experiment with different weights of cue sticks.

Lighter cues are easier to accelerate, and increasing the speed of the cue increases the kinetic energy by the square of the change in speed of the cue stick.

That said, if your fast twitch muscles aren't performing well, you may be able to accelerate a heavier cue to the same velocity, in which case you will pick up the same percentage of kinetic energy as the percentage of weight increase (~5% per ounce of added weight).

Basically play with the heaviest cue you can reach full speed with.

Straightpool_99 said:

You know, I'd love to see one of those 20+ mph breaks using the arm swing only. Not saying it cannot be done, I'd just like to see it. Measured with a radar gun and with accurate cueball control as well, please.

In the mean time I'll continue trying to emulate the pros breaks. There has been a lot of misinformation here lately. I'd like to correct that once and for all by linking to maybe the best instructional video ever made by an Az member. Colin Colenso's break video. Try to hit then as hard as he does with arm only..lol..not happening. Not even close.

If your're old and frail, then of course these movements may not be good for you, but if you are in at least decent health then they should be no problem. My back is not good by any standard, but it still stands up to the forces generated by a pro-style break. My arm-only break would be similar to that of a 12 year old girls, so it's not like I have much of a choice in the matter.,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW1tsONEI_U

Click to expand...

I know I'm late to the party, but I'll bump this old thread...

About 3 months ago I found out about the break speed app, so I bought it. I knew I had a pretty devastating break, I was just curious about exactly how awesome it really was.

Around 16.5 MPH.

I was pretty crushed.

I've been working on my break ever since, using the app for every break I make at home. I break just with arm speed, and today I logged 31 breaks, 8-ball on valley. My fastest was 21.25, slowest was 19.24, and average was 20.32. I don't think I popped any off the table, and think the cueball only hit a rail after the break a few times, unless it stopped and later got kicked.

The trick for me was to have a set routine, and make small incremental changes. Doing it this way, I haven't noticed any loss of control. Actually, I probably have more control now since my whole stroke is much smoother, relaxed, and consistent than it was before I started screwing around with the app.

The only reason I found this thread is because I think I'm at my max arm-speed break, and was looking for ways to incorporate some body movement and break the 22 mph wall that I've hit. I've never broken 22 on the app.

If you're really curious I record all my home matches and could edit all of my breaks together if you really wanted, but they look just like any other arm-only pop-and-stop breaks. Nothing special to them at all.

Mick