CTE - A - Outside Pivot - Only for straight shots?

Jucas

Registered
Wondering if someone can shed a little light;

I know you can use A with an Outside Pivot for straight in shots, but does A-outside pivot also do slight cuts? or should one default to A-Inside (left cut) for anything that is not completely straight?
 
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sacman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wondering if someone can shed a little light;

I know you can use A with an Outside Pivot for straight in shots, but does A-outside pivot also do slight cuts? or should one default to A-Inside (left cut) for anything that is not completely straight?

I've been at my CTE journey for about a month. With help from others, and intense, repeated viewing of Stan Shuffetts DVD-#2, and Stan's YouTube videos I believe I have a good handle on how do it. I just need to improve my accuracy in determining the perceptions.

Now - for your question. I know that I've used A-outside for slight cuts. The best thing I can say is use this routine: Lets say you estimate the shot at 5 degrees. Find ETA (or C if it is a right cut) then tweek it with CTE until you see both. This gives you a "fixed cue ball" ... as if you are frozen in place looking at a white round disc with the left edge and right edge of the cue ball determining the all important center cue ball. Ignoring the object ball, staring at center cue ball, ask yourself ... if I go to full stance without a pivot / sweep wouId I hit it thick or thin? Try it and use the results as your lesson. After a while this becomes more automatic.

Understanding how to do CTE isn't as hard as it sounds but pinpointing the objective targets and moving into the pivot/sweep takes practice. I used it last night - beat my buddy 12-3 (I had scratched on the eight-ball on two of those). The shots I missed I knew I had either viewed the perceptions incorrectly or used the wrong visual sweep.
 
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Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not a coach...but this might help??. It's worth a try

I've been at my CTE journey for about a month. With help from others, and intense repeated viewing fo Stan Shuffetts DVD-#2, and Stan's YouTube videos I believe I have a good handle on who to do it. I just need to improve my accuracy in determining the perceptions.
Now - for your question. I know that I've used A-outside for slight cuts. The best thing I can say is use this routine: Lets say you estimate the shot at 5 degrees. Find ETA (or C if it is a right cut) then tweek it with CTE until you see both. This gives you a "fixed cue ball" ... as if you are frozen in place looking at a white round disc with the left edge and right edge of the cue ball determining the all important center cue ball. Ignoring the object ball, staring at center cue ball, ask yourself ... if I go to full stance without a pivot / sweep wouId I hit it thick or thin? Try it and use the results as your lesson. After a while this becomes more automatic.
Understanding how to do CTE isn't as had as it sounds but pinpointing the objective targets and moving into the pivot/sweep takes practice. I used it last night - beat my buddy 12-3 (I had scratched on the eight-ball on two of those). The shots I missed I knew I had either viewed the perceptions incorrectly or used the wrong visual sweep.
I am not a CTE coach..just a student. However, I have a routine that helps when I'm not quite dead certain what the perception is for a shot. Especially the long distance kind...."is it a 15 or is it a 30" type thing. Here 'tis.
Instead of estimating and whacking at it (and hoping) like in other systems.....simply walk completely around to the other side of the shot and look at the entire visual from the intended pocket. You're gonna' be astonished at how clearly you'll be able to recognize which perception to deal with when checking it from from that viewpoint.
Then walk back to the original shot position, line up, and fire away.
It helps me a lot...especially when my eyes get tired and I begin to loaf somewhat.
Happy trails....:thumbup:
 

sacman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am not a CTE coach..just a student. However, I have a routine that helps when I'm not quite dead certain what the perception is for a shot. Especially the long distance kind...."is it a 15 or is it a 30" type thing. Here 'tis.
Instead of estimating and whacking at it (and hoping) like in other systems.....simply walk completely around to the other side of the shot and look at the entire visual from the intended pocket. You're gonna' be astonished at how clearly you'll be able to recognize which perception to deal with when checking it from from that viewpoint.
Then walk back to the original shot position, line up, and fire away.
It helps me a lot...especially when my eyes get tired and I begin to loaf somewhat.
Happy trails....:thumbup:

Great idea!

I put my cue down behind the object ball at the pocketing line (line from center pocket to center object ball). To the unknowing onlooker it looks like I'm just measuring the ghost ball target.

There seems to be an overlap between all of the perceptions. It is a strange phenomenon of how this works.

I can easily identify the common angles (or get close) 5, 15, 30, 45, 60, and 90:

30: relaxed peace symbol of index and middle fingers
45: half of a right angle
60: angle between extended thumb and middle finger.


It would be great if we had a "certifed" CTE coach here on the forum.
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great idea!

I put my cue down behind the object ball at the pocketing line (line from center pocket to center object ball). To the unknowing onlooker it looks like I'm just measuring the ghost ball target.
There seems to be an overlap between all of the perceptions. It is a strange phenomenon of how this works.
I can easily identify the common angles (or get close) 5, 15, 30, 45, 60, and 90:
30: relaxed peace symbol of index and middle fingers
45: half of a right angle
60: angle between extended thumb and middle finger.
It would be great if we had a "certifed" CTE coach here on the forum.
Have no concerns. Just exercise a little more patience.
I have a direct connection to Stan and he's closing in on the beginnings of his Truth Series which will compliment his book. It is going to be sooooooooo much dynamite!
And he's going to have his own CTE site with only privileged members (you're one) so there won't be any arguing, slander, or grief, from those who have no clue.
I'm not one to make wild ass statements......you can take this one to the bank, though: This stuff that is ahead is going to rattle the world of pool like nothing has done before it.
Happy Trails.
:thumbup:
 

sacman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Have no concerns. Just exercise a little more patience.
I have a direct connection to Stan and he's closing in on the beginnings of his Truth Series which will compliment his book. It is going to be sooooooooo much dynamite!
And he's going to have his own CTE site with only privileged members (you're one) so there won't be any arguing, slander, or grief, from those who have no clue.
I'm not one to make wild ass statements......you can take this one to the bank, though: This stuff that is ahead is going to rattle the world of pool like nothing has done before it.
Happy Trails.
:thumbup:

Yes - I'm a very patient person (just ask my wife :().

It's hard to imagine that there will be anything new but perhaps the presentation will be different. I am SO LOOKING FORWARD TO IT.

Thanks for the inside info!
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes - I'm a very patient person (just ask my wife :().
It's hard to imagine that there will be anything new but perhaps the presentation will be different. I am SO LOOKING FORWARD TO IT.
Thanks for the inside info!
Wait until you see his in-depth analysis of Bustamante's wonky stroke and why he still drills those balls right into the pockets.
Rest assured, it has little to do with "hitting a million balls" or "sleeping in pool rooms" in the Philippines, or any of the other hackneyed nonsense from the know-it-alls of the pool world. :smile:
Stan Shuffett is leaving a legacy to the pool world that few can imagine.
 

sacman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wait until you see his in-depth analysis of Bustamante's wonky stroke and why he still drills those balls right into the pockets.
Rest assured, it has little to do with "hitting a million balls" or "sleeping in pool rooms" in the Philippines, or any of the other hackneyed nonsense from the know-it-alls of the pool world. :smile:
Stan Shuffett is leaving a legacy to the pool world that few can imagine.

I do wonder how Efren made so many bank shots including the famous Z-shaped shots. I can't see how that could be CTE.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wondering if someone can shed a little light;

I know you can use A with an Outside Pivot for straight in shots, but does A-outside pivot also do slight cuts? or should one default to A-Inside (left cut) for anything that is not completely straight?

cookie man, why don't you help Jucas out? How should he pocket a shot that is a few degrees off from straight in? sacman is doing everything wrong (lining up the ob to the pocket, estimating cut angles, etc.) and that kind of advice shouldn't go unanswered. Not starting a fight, just saying what Stan used to when advice like this was given in the past.
 

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great idea!

I put my cue down behind the object ball at the pocketing line (line from center pocket to center object ball). To the unknowing onlooker it looks like I'm just measuring the ghost ball target.

There seems to be an overlap between all of the perceptions. It is a strange phenomenon of how this works.

I can easily identify the common angles (or get close) 5, 15, 30, 45, 60, and 90:

30: relaxed peace symbol of index and middle fingers
45: half of a right angle
60: angle between extended thumb and middle finger.


It would be great if we had a "certifed" CTE coach here on the forum.

Is identifying those angles a component of CTE?
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I do wonder how Efren made so many bank shots including the famous Z-shaped shots. I can't see how that could be CTE.
Shallow thinkers will say....."he had a tremendous foundation in 3-Cushion.
Or......."he has great talent". And those things are true.
However there have been many others who had tremendous foundations in 3-Cushion and also had great talent. Yet, in spite of their achievments, they haven't reached his level.
When it gets to those levels of achievement....innate talent takes over (all things being equal)
For example: My father had aspirations of me being a major league ball player. He even converted me, at 10 years old, to batting left handed, like Cobb........so I could be closer to first base.
I ran windsprints for hours. I did extensive leg and calf exercises. I chased fly balls and red hot grounders over rock strewn vacant lots in the dead of winter. I faced the hardball pitching of a grown man when I was only 11 years old. And I lettered all four years of high school and was drafted by the Dodgers chain. But I didn't have the natural talent to outplay a couple of other guys. One named Pee Wee Reese in Brooklyn and another guy called Maurice Wills who was on the way up.
Effren's game shows his innate talent. Although I personally believe with him....."the eyes lead and the body follows".
Happy Trails.
 

sacman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cookie man, why don't you help Jucas out? How should he pocket a shot that is a few degrees off from straight in? sacman is doing everything wrong (lining up the ob to the pocket, estimating cut angles, etc.) and that kind of advice shouldn't go unanswered. Not starting a fight, just saying what Stan used to when advice like this was given in the past.


I can't wait until I can exchange information with CTE enthusiasts without the likes of you chiming in to cause trouble.

FYI - Mr Know-It-All .... Stan actually replied to an email to me stating that I can choose to estimate based on the actual angles - AS A STARTING POINT ... AS A BEGINNER.

I don't understand why you're still allowed to troll these sites. This is my last response to you ... ever. Trouble-maker.
 

sacman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is identifying those angles a component of CTE?

No it is not. It is something that I use as a beginner to estimate the shot angle. In my earlier days of pool playing I never considered these angles.
 

sacman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Shallow thinkers will say....."he had a tremendous foundation in 3-Cushion.
Or......."he has great talent". And those things are true.
However there have been many others who had tremendous foundations in 3-Cushion and also had great talent. Yet, in spite of their achievments, they haven't reached his level.
When it gets to those levels of achievement....innate talent takes over (all things being equal)
For example: My father had aspirations of me being a major league ball player. He even converted me, at 10 years old, to batting left handed, like Cobb........so I could be closer to first base.
I ran windsprints for hours. I did extensive leg and calf exercises. I chased fly balls and red hot grounders over rock strewn vacant lots in the dead of winter. I faced the hardball pitching of a grown man when I was only 11 years old. And I lettered all four years of high school and was drafted by the Dodgers chain. But I didn't have the natural talent to outplay a couple of other guys. One named Pee Wee Reese in Brooklyn and another guy called Maurice Wills who was on the way up.
Effren's game shows his innate talent. Although I personally believe with him....."the eyes lead and the body follows".
Happy Trails.

Great story and info.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can't wait until I can exchange information with CTE enthusiasts without the likes of you chiming in to cause trouble.

FYI - Mr Know-It-All .... Stan actually replied to an email to me stating that I can choose to estimate based on the actual angles - AS A STARTING POINT ... AS A BEGINNER.

I don't understand why you're still allowed to troll these sites. This is my last response to you ... ever. Trouble-maker.

sacman, I understand your frustration and I promise to limit my involvement in the CTE related discussions. You've been around here for a very short time and have limited perspective and it is clear your mind is made up about me. I'm not trying to make you look dumb. I can tell you, and I might even be able to find it in the archives if necessary, that Stan has ripped long term CTE supporters a new one for saying some of the things you said. Sorry, but that's the truth. I was interested in cookie's recommendation since Stan doesn't post on AZ. In rereading your post you recommend A-outside for straight in shots and A-outside for shallow angles. OK, fine. cookie has been a CTEer for many years and I'd take his word on it.

Jucas asked about as simple a question there is so it should be a no-brainer to answer. Maybe more people will chime in after the 4th holiday.
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can't wait until I can exchange information with CTE enthusiasts without the likes of you chiming in to cause trouble.
FYI - Mr Know-It-All .... Stan actually replied to an email to me stating that I can choose to estimate based on the actual angles - AS A STARTING POINT ... AS A BEGINNER.
I don't understand why you're still allowed to troll these sites. This is my last response to you ... ever. Trouble-maker.
That guy has caused more trouble around here than you can imagine. And then he always "plays innocent"...like "who me, I was just trying to be helpful or understand?".
He's been told to stay out of CTE discussions.
But he gets into it anyway where he isn't invited. On and on and on and on. He's a poology system cheerleader and just cannot leave CTE people alone.
Report him to the administrators and hope for the best.
 
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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wondering if someone can shed a little light;

I know you can use A with an Outside Pivot for straight in shots, but does A-outside pivot also do slight cuts? or should one default to A-Inside (left cut) for anything that is not completely straight?

Jucas - did you get a satisfactory answer to your question? If so, I'm kind of curious what explanation cleared up the issue for you.
 

Vorpal Cue

Just galumping back
Silver Member
Jucas - did you get a satisfactory answer to your question? If so, I'm kind of curious what explanation cleared up the issue for you.

Here's all the info you need, straight from Stan. The video begins at 4:55 where he starts with a 0* shot and gives the visuals and sweeps for cuts to 49*.

https://youtu.be/Z_TW3-i0KL4?t=295

If you watch it to the end and you'll also see that he talks about bridge distances which are important for a manual pivot. When you develop a sweep they're what you're comfortable with. Good luck practicing!! :rotflmao1:
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here's all the info you need, straight from Stan. The video begins at 4:55 where he starts with a 0* shot and gives the visuals and sweeps for cuts to 49*.

https://youtu.be/Z_TW3-i0KL4?t=295

If you watch it to the end and you'll also see that he talks about bridge distances which are important for a manual pivot. When you develop a sweep they're what you're comfortable with. Good luck practicing!! :rotflmao1:

So it appears the answer is that a straight in uses the A-inside perception and any cut shot approaching a half ball hit also uses A-inside perception. Well I thought that was the answer but I have trouble with it. I was hoping Jucas would be able to make it work and relate how he did so.

Thanks for the link.
 
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