Corey Deuel v. Dr. Dave: mirror measurement for kick shot

7

7stud

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the following video, Corey Deuel uses a "mirror measurement" to figure out where to aim the kick shot on the rail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWjxMF769VY&t=11m46s

Dr. Dave explains how to use the mirror measurement aiming system for kick shots here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7NY-nTQbus&t=22s

But Corey Deuel is not using the same measurement that Dr. Dave uses. It looks like Corey is using a shorter length, which would make the angle wider. Why is he making that adjustment? Speed?

Thanks.
 
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Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
7stud said:
In the following video, Corey Deuel uses a "mirror measurement" to figure out where to aim the kick shot on the rail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWjxMF769VY&t=11m46s

Dr. Dave explains how to use the mirror measurement aiming system for kick shots here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7NY-nTQbus&t=22s

But Corey Deuel is not using the same measurement that Dr. Dave uses. It looks like Corey is using a shorter length, which would make the angle wider. Why is he making that adjustment? Speed?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
What makes you think it’s shorter?

pj
chgo
 
7

7stud

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Patrick Johnson said:
What makes you think it’s shorter?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
Because Dr. Dave says to measure to the through diamond line, then put the tip of the cue on the through diamond line for the second measurement. It looks to me like Corey measures from the center of the ghost ball to somewhere short of the bumper/rail seam, which is shorter than the through diamond line, then puts the tip of the cue almost to the edge of the bumper for the second measurement.
 
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B

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
when measuring from the object ball
i was taught to do it like corey
from the ball or ghost ball to the rail nose then mirror back
from the cue ball i was taught different
 
D

DutchPool

Registered
They're using different systems.

1. Corey's starting point: where cueball needs to go (tip of his cue near the object ball) and measuring the angle from that perspective (using his cue to determine where to hit the cushion).
2. Dave's starting point: where the cueball is and measuring the angle from cueball perspective.
 
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dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
7stud said:
In the following video, Corey Deuel uses a "mirror measurement" to figure out where to aim the kick shot on the rail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWjxMF769VY&t=11m46s

Dr. Dave explains how to use the mirror measurement aiming system for kick shots here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7NY-nTQbus&t=22s

But Corey Deuel is not using the same measurement that Dr. Dave uses. It looks like Corey is using a shorter length, which would make the angle wider. Why is he making that adjustment? Speed?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Watch the rest of my Mirror Kick-Shot Aiming System video. I change the measurement reference line based on speed. At the fast speed Corey was using, if he had used the rail-groove reference instead of the cushion nose reference, he would have gotten the hit.

Regards,
Dave
 
BC21

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
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It's because Corey was kicking firm. For a softer shot, and striking cb above center, measuring from the diamonds works better. When shooting firm, measuring from the cushion nose works better.

But it's different from table to table. You can either change your reference point at the rail (nose of cushion or diamond or even the seam between the cushion akd rail), or you can change the ref point from the ob end (using the ghostball or the center of the ob or the edge of the ob or far side of the ball or whatever). Experience helps to know which references are more accurate for any given kick shot or off the rail shot.
 
Andrew Manning

Andrew Manning

Aspiring know-it-all
Silver Member
dr_dave said:
Watch the rest of my Mirror Kick-Shot Aiming System video. I change the measurement reference line based on speed. At the fast speed Corey was using, if he had used the rail-groove reference instead of the cushion nose reference, he would have gotten the hit.

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

Not to split hairs, but in fact if Corey had used the rail groove I believe he would have hit the 6 ball. His line of aim was decided for him by the need to go around the 6, so I think he was using the mirror technique to determine the difference between his line and the natural line, to know how much he needed to shorten it with draw and/or right english.
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
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Andrew Manning said:
dr_dave said:
Watch the rest of my Mirror Kick-Shot Aiming System video. I change the measurement reference line based on speed. At the fast speed Corey was using, if he had used the rail-groove reference instead of the cushion nose reference, he would have gotten the hit.
Click to expand...
Not to split hairs, but in fact if Corey had used the rail groove I believe he would have hit the 6 ball. His line of aim was decided for him by the need to go around the 6, so I think he was using the mirror technique to determine the difference between his line and the natural line, to know how much he needed to shorten it with draw and/or right english.
Click to expand...
I just watched Corey's shot again. He definitely measure relative to the cushion nose ... not the rail groove. That would have worked with a rolling CB and slower speed, and the 6 definitely would not have gotten in the way. Again, with the speed he used, he would have needed to measure relative to the rail groove instead, and I still think he would have cleared the 6, but it is sometimes difficult to tell from an oblique camera view like this.

Regards,
Dave
 
B

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
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dr_dave said:
I just watched Corey's shot again. He definitely measure relative to the cushion nose ... not the rail groove. That would have worked with a rolling CB and slower speed, and the 6 definitely would not have gotten in the way. Again, with the speed he used, he would have needed to measure relative to the rail groove instead, and I still think he would have cleared the 6, but it is sometimes difficult to tell from an oblique camera view like this.

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

You are confusing me
I thought with your method you use the diamond line for slow speed
I have used the rail nose when coming from the object ball for “ normal speed “ shots....why does that work for me ?
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
bbb said:
dr_dave said:
Andrew Manning said:
dr_dave said:
Watch the rest of my Mirror Kick-Shot Aiming System video. I change the measurement reference line based on speed. At the fast speed Corey was using, if he had used the rail-groove reference instead of the cushion nose reference, he would have gotten the hit.
Click to expand...
Not to split hairs, but in fact if Corey had used the rail groove I believe he would have hit the 6 ball. His line of aim was decided for him by the need to go around the 6, so I think he was using the mirror technique to determine the difference between his line and the natural line, to know how much he needed to shorten it with draw and/or right english.
Click to expand...
I just watched Corey's shot again. He definitely measure relative to the cushion nose ... not the rail groove. That would have worked with a rolling CB and slower speed, and the 6 definitely would not have gotten in the way. Again, with the speed he used, he would have needed to measure relative to the rail groove instead, and I still think he would have cleared the 6, but it is sometimes difficult to tell from an oblique camera view like this.
Click to expand...
You are confusing me
I thought with your method you use the diamond line for slow speed
I have used the rail nose when coming from the object ball for “ normal speed “ shots....why does that work for me ?
Click to expand...
Watch my video again. It covers the different cases. Under typical conditions: For a slow rolling ball, you use the line of diamonds. For a medium-speed rolling ball, you use the cushion nose. And for a fast-speed rolling ball, you use the rail groove.

Regards,
Dave
 
Andrew Manning

Andrew Manning

Aspiring know-it-all
Silver Member
dr_dave said:
I just watched Corey's shot again. He definitely measure relative to the cushion nose ... not the rail groove. That would have worked with a rolling CB and slower speed, and the 6 definitely would not have gotten in the way. Again, with the speed he used, he would have needed to measure relative to the rail groove instead, and I still think he would have cleared the 6, but it is sometimes difficult to tell from an oblique camera view like this.

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

I can see he uses the cushion nose, but my point was that I really don't believe it mattered much. There's a vanishingly small range of aim lines he can use and still make it around the 6, which is not much more than a ball width off the rail to my eyes. Maybe it's the camera angle, but you and I are definitely seeing the 6 ball differently. In any case, your video about the different reference lines for different shot speeds is very informative.
 
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