My Touch of Inside Experience

Prairie dog said:

My question is "why did you switch to an aiming system"? What was wrong with yours and why go searching for another? I'm curious why anyone who has played for a while search for another like TOI or CTE? Did you meet with CJ to learn his system?

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TOI isn't, what I would call, an aiming system. It is a "playing system" where you try to keep things "somewhat the same". You aim at a contact point on the cue ball with a cue to hit a contact point on an object ball. How simple is that? If you can't understand that, do some research or come to Hawaii and I'll explain it to you at the table. I'm not going to get into a lengthy debate or discussion about it here over a keyboard.

Who says I "switched" to anything? I grew up in a pool hall and played pool before CJ got out of kindergarten. The TOI style wasn't invented by CJ. I have always "aimed" the way I "aim", but I don't always hit the "inside" of the cue ball because sometimes that option won't work for what you are trying to do. Over the many years I've played, I have incorporated many different "styles" into the way I currently play. One thing that I think keeps me "most consistent" is staying within the TOI game. For you, maybe that isn't or won't be the case. For me, it is.

I talked to, met, and played with CJ long after I learned about TOI and when I learned to play that way it didn't have a name. The TOI name came about when CJ started promoting it and came out with his DVD.

Everybody wants something for free, but when it doesn't "immediately" register with them, they want their money back.

Most players don't have the patience to learn "their own" style of playing, whatever that is, much less something that is "foreign" to them. They are too busy trying to spin the ball, draw the cue ball six feet when they need to only move the cue ball six inches, etc., etc., etc.

To play pool well, you have to spend TIME at the table and some people more than others. While at the table, you need to do something "productive", like setting the same shot up, over and over and over, trying different things until you see what works best for YOU. Then stick with that option, but by then you will have already learned the other options as a backup.

I find it funny that I'm an old man, blind, and only play for a few hours once a week, yet I can hang with the big boys in the pool hall, who are much younger than me and who play way more frequently.

Why is that? I'd say it is because I use something that works and is much more consistent.

mjdoutdoors said:

I am a life long learner. I feel once a person stops looking further for new things its over. Originally, I was intrigued by someone, who was one most feared player of his time, sharing his knowledge. I wanted to know more. Learning about and going through the trial and error process of something new opened my eyes to a lot more than TOI. Even now I am learning about CTE and is opening my eyes to about how I use TOI and the effects of being offset. I remember Stan Shuffet saying he could run a 100 balls the traditional way but with CTE for him he is a better player. We all find what were looking for in our pool journey as long as we keep looking.

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Good post. A desire to learn, to continually try things to improve your game, usually leads to an improved game.

Patrick Johnson said:

CB deflection (squirt) happens at all speeds. Maybe you're thinking of longer (or non-level) shots where swerve is greater with slower shots...?


Spin also happens (and lasts longer) with faster strokes - you want some inside spin to counteract the outside spin transferred from the collision with the OB.

pj
chgo

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The point is to hit firmly enough so that swerve has little time to take effect and the defined amount of squirt dominates the shot. When shooting softer swerve can cancel out the benefit of the method.

bioactive said:

The point is to hit firmly enough so that swerve has little time to take effect and the defined amount of squirt dominates the shot. When shooting softer swerve can cancel out the benefit of the method.

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OK. I don't subscribe to the principle of preferring an off center hit, but I understand what you're saying.

pj
chgo

Patrick Johnson said:

OK. I don't subscribe to the principle of preferring an off center hit, but I understand what you're saying.

pj
chgo

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Are you saying you don't "subscribe" (agree) that it works or you understand it works, but you don't subscribe to that method of playing?

Some very good posts here IMHO.

TOI helps kill the cue ball.

TOI helps solidify contact point aim (and cp aim favors errors on the thick side, preventing spraying shots and the cb itself from hits that are way too thin).

Hawaiian said people tend to give up easily on new systems, and CJ has been clear that someone who is already skilled who wants to learn TOI needs to take 2 or 3 hours to practice it. That's fair--that's not a six-month commitment, either.

TOI is very good for shots like putting a lot of draw on the cb when the hit is thick and the cb is near the ob. You can ram the shot hard--something with a center ball stroke that is not often a good idea on a draw shot--and the cue ball sucks straight back.

HawaiianEye said:

Are you saying you don't "subscribe" (agree) that it works or you understand it works, but you don't subscribe to that method of playing?

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I don’t believe there’s a net benefit to favoring side over center ball.

pj
chgo

BilliardsAbout said:

Some very good posts here IMHO.
TOI helps kill the cue ball.
TOI helps solidify contact point aim (and cp aim favors errors on the thick side, preventing spraying shots and the cb itself from hits that are way too thin).
Hawaiian said people tend to give up easily on new systems, and CJ has been clear that someone who is already skilled who wants to learn TOI needs to take 2 or 3 hours to practice it. That's fair--that's not a six-month commitment, either.
TOI is very good for shots like putting a lot of draw on the cb when the hit is thick and the cb is near the ob. You can ram the shot hard--something with a center ball stroke that is not often a good idea on a draw shot--and the cue ball sucks straight back.

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Patrick Johnson said:

I don’t believe there’s a net benefit to favoring side over center ball.

pj
chgo

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Doesn't matter, it works whether you believe it or not. Do you pull that opinion from your Academy of Spheroid Sciences?

Vorpal Cue said:

...it works whether you believe it or not.

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Actually, I think it only works if you believe it.

pj
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Patrick Johnson said:

Actually, I think it only works if you believe it.

pj
chgo

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Old-timers would kill a cue ball punching at it a fraction of a tip above or below dead center ball. I'm talking about killing the cue ball with a fraction of a tip of inside parallel english. This is one of the few good uses for parallel english.

BilliardsAbout said:

I'm talking about killing the cue ball with a fraction of a tip of inside parallel english. This is one of the few good uses for parallel english.

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I get you, but to pick a nit: A parallel shift of the cue isn't really parallel english - the target OB contact point has changed, so you're stroking at the squirt-correction angle to that line.

pj
chgo

Patrick Johnson said:

I get you, but to pick a nit: A parallel shift of the cue isn't really parallel english - the target OB contact point has changed, so you're stroking at the squirt-correction angle to that line.

pj
chgo

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That's okay to pick that nit or any other, it helps me. And I agree. Parallel "english" IMHO is not the best alternative to pivot english.

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BilliardsAbout said:

Old-timers would kill a cue ball punching at it a fraction of a tip above or below dead center ball. I'm talking about killing the cue ball with a fraction of a tip of inside parallel english. This is one of the few good uses for parallel english.

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Low500 said:

I observed Shaun Wilkie doing a lot of that in exactly the same way last night in his match against SVB at Salt City.

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You "observed" him (on a video taken from 20+ feet away) using a fraction of a tip of english?

Please. You're working too hard to convince yourself.

pj
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Patrick Johnson said:

You "observed" him (on a video taken from 20+ feet away) using a fraction of a tip of english?

Please. You're working too hard to convince yourself.

pj
chgo

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If you can't tell what is happening from the cue ball's reaction, then we are taking away your "pool scientist" credentials.

I think you've spent more time talking about pool than playing pool.

Same goes for a lot of others on here.

Learning to play pool I struggled, and still struggle, to get the cue ball back to my tip shooting down the table and back, especially at high speeds.

This guy who shot a lot better than me, Jimmy Spears, told me his philosophy was, “Why try hit center and get inconsistent results, sometimes on, or to either side of center, when you can get more consistent results intentionally hitting a particular side of the cue ball and aiming accordingly?

I think there is merit to both TOO and TOI over a center-ball hit, especially for players with not so perfect strokes, like myself.

desertfox14.1 said:

Why try hit center and get inconsistent results, sometimes on, or to either side of center, when you can get more consistent results intentionally hitting a particular side of the cue ball and aiming accordingly?

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Because you'll get the same inconsistent results - sometimes on or to either side of whatever spot you're trying to hit.

Paying closer attention to where you're hitting the CB is what helps.

pj
chgo