My Touch of Inside Experience

mjdoutdoors

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
After reading StraightPool 99’s post on TOI I thought I would share my experience using CJ’s Touch Of Inside (TOI). I have had the opportunity to see CJ a few years back and the things he has thought me has brought me to playing the best pool of my life after 25+ years of playing pool. Of course all the hard work got me there as well.
Let me start by saying TOI is real and it works. Unfortunately CJ’s video is slightly misleading and is missing some information. CJ admitted this to me. He said he left some things out because he felt most wouldn’t understand some of the finer details. I think there is a misunderstanding I what TOI is and is not. It is not creating the whole angle with TOI. It is not an aiming system. You still have to aim your way to get to the pocket. With TOI you are simply creating a very small angle that finishes the cut from the outside of the pocket to the center of the pocket. This is a very small amount TOI. This is maybe 1/4th or less of a tip to achieve this deflection. This is not for those that are learning. You must have a solid and accurate stroke to use TOI effectively. Overall it is a system that provides a slight statistical advantage and increases margin for error.

To experience this small deflection amount that is use in TOI, set up an object ball about half way between the spot and the corner pocket. Put the CB on the spot and adjust the OB or CB until it is a straight shot to the right side of the corner pocket. Line up to shoot into the right side of the pocket and move your whole cue to the inside (left). Do not pivot to the inside! Move the bridge and back hand in unison to the left. Shoot straight through on this new parallel line and watch the CB deflect to the right and the OB to the left into the center of the pocket. Experiment and find how much TOI you need to achieve the finishing cut from the outside of the pocket to the center of the pocket. This is all the deflection you will need and is your TOI amount you will use on most shots. I general the farther you are away for the OB the less TOI you will use. To start using TOI aim like you normally do to the outside of the pocket move to the TOI position and deflect the ball into the center of the pocket.

It took a long time to figure how it really works. I went through a lot of hard times to learn all that he shared with me. My game went down for a couple of years but I came out the other end a much better player and with a better understanding of the game general. I kept looking for the things he shared with me in pro players to confirm his teachings. These subtle things are there in many pros and are powerful when you can apply them unconsciously. There were lots of these little changes that added up in my game. I think most people’s aversion to TOI, CTE, or anything new is it takes a lot of work to figure these things out. Most people give up too soon to ever see the results because as it hurts the ego and many go back to their old ways. Changes are hard to do and will difficult in the interim.

A major change for me was going from looking at the OB last to looking at the CB last. It was hard but key to my new success. This is still personal preference for many. Lots of pros shoot this way but not all. CJ is right; the game is all about hitting the CB accurately. All your aiming, however you do it, is done in the standing position. This has been confirmed by many pros I asked about this. Johnny Archer talked about this in detail in his TAR match with SVB. Check it out.

Another change is trust in the idea that you are hitting with the cue offset and not at center CB. This becomes your new center. What is weird is this is counter intuitive to the way most are taught to shoot. Many players look straight down the cue like sighting a gun and aim with this. However, after learning from CJ, Stan Shuffet, and extensively talking with many pros I now realize that the cue is usually across the sight line in some form or another. Many players do this now and don’t realize it. TOO is a great example of this. The cue is across the shot line not inline with it to make the shot. Shane and Earl are TOO players. Shane has told me he uses TOO on most of his shots. This is where the crazy accuracy comes into play with TOI or even TOO, because the unconscious mind makes the adjustments for you in the aiming process. Yes, it seems like you are relying instinct but we all do the same when using TOO. So this concept is something most of us are already familiar with to some extent.

Here is where TOI gets interesting for me. As you move inside to the TOI position with your tip, the tip/shaft is now pointing toward the contact point/shot line instead of out in space. This is where CJ talks about simply connecting the dots for the shot to happen unconsciously. All you have to do is align your tip or part of your shaft towards the contact point/shot line, set and shoot. CJ told me his cue points towards the contact point. And this works powerfully. Now I just align part of my shaft to the contact point/shot line from the TOI position and let the unconscious mind work for me. It seems like magic but I am making more shots more accurately then ever in my life. I know shaft aiming has been talked about before but it has a solid application with TOI.

One subtle advantage TOI offers is a neutral cue ball after the CB/OB hit. It makes it easier to move the ball around with precision and control. Yes, I still spin balls to create different angles off the rails but not as often, maybe only 10-20 % of the time. TOI is not about English or spin! It is about deflection with the parallel shift. Any tiny amount of spin you get from hitting off center is cancelled out by the contact between the CB and OB giving you a nice neutral cue ball that is controllable. The hardest adjustment with TOI is you now have new set of speed control drills to practice, as the CB seems heavier. This took time.

Overall TOI for me has been a hard journey with moments of struggles on my way to shooting bliss. It really has brought me awareness into how a slight off center hit changes the out come of the shot and that hitting the cue ball accurately is so important. I have found shooting heaven with TOI. I don’t feel like I would have learned as much if I did not go though those struggles. All I can say is I now feel like I can’t miss and TOI has gotten me there. However, I do miss, we all miss, now I just miss less and I am a more consistent player with all the techniques CJ shared and TOI.
 

heismii

Registered
Great post. I would also add one must use a firmer stroke, think of a stun shot / firm stop shot stroke. This is necessary to cause the deflection from the inside cue offset.

Also, if your slow or soft stroke, you pickup inside spin and you don't want that with this TOI technique.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
congratulations on making TOI work for you and improvement in your game..:thumbup:
question ?
if you had spent just as much time perfecting vertical axis center cue ball accuracy
do you think you would be just as good now?
the time you spent learning how much TOI you need for distance could have been used
perfecting other skills without having to master the deflection.
granted you would have alittle cut induced spin on the cue ball so it would not be perfectly neutral coming off the cut
jmho
icbw
your thoughts??
 
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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Great post. I would also add one must use a firmer stroke, think of a stun shot / firm stop shot stroke. This is necessary to cause the deflection from the inside cue offset.
CB deflection (squirt) happens at all speeds. Maybe you're thinking of longer (or non-level) shots where swerve is greater with slower shots...?

Also, if your slow or soft stroke, you pickup inside spin and you don't want that with this TOI technique.
Spin also happens (and lasts longer) with faster strokes - you want some inside spin to counteract the outside spin transferred from the collision with the OB.

pj
chgo
 

mjdoutdoors

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
congratulations on making TOI work for you and improvement in your game..:thumbup:
question ?
if you had spent just as much time perfecting vertical axis center cue ball accuracy
do you think you would be just as good now?
the time you spent learning how much TOI you need for distance could have been used
perfecting other skills without having to master the deflection.
granted you would have a little cut induced spin on the cue ball so it would not be perfectly neutral coming off the cut
jmho
icbw
your thoughts??

I spent 20 years trying to perfect center ball and played very well, but a special connection to the shot seems to happen with TOI. This sent me to the next level.
 
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mjdoutdoors

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great post. I would also add one must use a firmer stroke, think of a stun shot / firm stop shot stroke. This is necessary to cause the deflection from the inside cue offset.

Also, if your slow or soft stroke, you pickup inside spin and you don't want that with this TOI technique.

This is true with TOI. You need have to put some speed on the stoke to get the deflection. It happens in the wrist flick. CJ and Shane told me the game is played in the wrist not the arm. I use CJ's hammer stroke to achieve this. At first I though, how do I adjust for speed control if I'm using the same speed of stroke like CJ suggests? It is in the impulse (Force X contact Time). Use the same speed of stroke most of the time and adjust with contact time (Bunt it for slow speed control or stroke through for fast). You can further control slow speed after the shot with draw drag. For a real slow cueball I will still role the ball, but as most know bad things happen when a player rolls balls instead of stroking it. TOI forces you to have a stroke and keeps you from doing stupid stuff with your stroke that happens when you are constantly adjusting speed control with stroke speed. My consistency has gone way up once I figured this out.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
You need have to put some speed on the stoke to get the deflection.
You "get the deflection" at any speed. Swerve is what might change with speed (and distance). TOI doesn't change this.

...how do I adjust for speed control if I'm using the same speed of stroke like CJ suggests? It is in the impulse (Force X contact Time). Use the same speed of stroke most of the time and adjust with contact time (Bunt it for slow speed control or stroke through for fast).
"Bunt it" vs. "stroke through" sounds to me like changing your stroke speed.

pj
chgo
 

mjdoutdoors

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You "get the deflection" at any speed. Swerve is what might change with speed (and distance). TOI doesn't change this.


"Bunt it" vs. "stroke through" sounds to me like changing your stroke speed.

pj
chgo

The speed of the stroke remains consistent. "Bunt" for me means short contact time with the cue ball with a short pop stroke.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I spent 20 years trying to perfect center ball and played very well, but a special connection to the shot seems to happen with TOI. This sent me to the next level.

thanks for the reply
and enjoy your playing improvement....:thumbup:
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is true with TOI. You need have to put some speed on the stoke to get the deflection. It happens in the wrist flick. CJ and Shane told me the game is played in the wrist not the arm. I use CJ's hammer stroke to achieve this. At first I though, how do I adjust for speed control if I'm using the same speed of stroke like CJ suggests? It is in the impulse (Force X contact Time). Use the same speed of stroke most of the time and adjust with contact time (Bunt it for slow speed control or stroke through for fast). You can further control slow speed after the shot with draw drag. For a real slow cueball I will still role the ball, but as most know bad things happen when a player rolls balls instead of stroking it. TOI forces you to have a stroke and keeps you from doing stupid stuff with your stroke that happens when you are constantly adjusting speed control with stroke speed. My consistency has gone way up once I figured this out.
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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I spent 20 years trying to perfect center ball and played very well, but a special connection to the shot seems to happen with TOI. This sent me to the next level.

I've been on the fence about TOI but I'm working on other aspects of the game so I haven't really tried it. I do use what I guess you call TOI for one particular shot in straight pool when I have no angle on my break ball. I'll aim straight at the ob but then will shift over parallel a little bit so that the cb will squirt and pocket the ob to one side of center pocket. This allows the cue ball to follow around the corner with running english and hopefully pop a couple of ball off the bottom corner.

Two questions:
1. You said you shift parallel and then shoot but you also said you aim the shaft at the contact point. How do you do both?

2. You said you used to aim for center of the cb but that TOI has a "better connection" to the ob. What exactly does that mean?

People might agree or disagree with your conclusions, but your post was an unbiased look at what has been working for you. Good post!
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
The speed of the stroke remains consistent. "Bunt" for me means short contact time with the cue ball with a short pop stroke.
I can see how that's a helpful visualization of the stroke, even though I don't think it's possible to actually control tip/ball contact time. In fact, I think a lot of what TOI (and other systems) offers is new ways to see old principles - like "pay more attention to hitting the CB precisely".

pj
chgo
 

Vorpal Cue

Just galumping back
Silver Member
To OP:

Interesting posts. Very detailed and informative. I've watched some of CJ's stuff on YT and he shoots well using TOI.

A quick question. Have you tried the technique with different shafts and are the results the same or is it shaft deflection dependent?.
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been on the fence about TOI but I'm working on other aspects of the game so I haven't really tried it. I do use what I guess you call TOI for one particular shot in straight pool when I have no angle on my break ball. I'll aim straight at the ob but then will shift over parallel a little bit so that the cb will squirt and pocket the ob to one side of center pocket. This allows the cue ball to follow around the corner with running english and hopefully pop a couple of ball off the bottom corner.

Two questions:
1. You said you shift parallel and then shoot but you also said you aim the shaft at the contact point. How do you do both?

2. You said you used to aim for center of the cb but that TOI has a "better connection" to the ob. What exactly does that mean?

People might agree or disagree with your conclusions, but your post was an unbiased look at what has been working for you. Good post!

I use TOI and know what he is doing. Whether I'm explaining it the way he is saying it is another story.

1. Your shaft is aimed at the contact point on the object ball. It is aligned from the contact point on the cue ball to the contact point on the object ball.

2. He used to align his shots and hit the center of the cue ball as his target. He has now shifted parallel to the center of the cue ball but is still aligned on the shot...just over a bit or two. He isn't pivoting. The whole cue shifts over.

TOI becomes second nature after you have spent time playing with it. It takes a while to become fully adjusted where you actually "figure out" what is going on. That becomes your "aha" moment and you realize how simple it is, but hard to initially wrap your brain around.

If I explained it differently than he meant, I'm sure he will jump in and correct me.

I think learning to effectively use TOI would improve anybody's playing. Whether they wished to continue using it all the time is up to them.

People have to remember that when you are shooting a ball to the left, the left side of the cue ball hits the right side of the object ball. Using TOI, you are aiming your cue to the left side of the cue ball (inside)...the same side that is hitting the object ball. If you are aiming at the center of the cue ball or using right English to the right of center, your cue isn't aligned to the contact points on the balls.

The same applies in reverse when shooting to the right.

My cue is always aligned to the side of the cue ball that is hitting the object ball, except for straight in shots and shots that I have to put a bit of outside English on in order to make the ball and/or get position.

The HARDEST part about teaching TOI to someone who has played the game for a while is getting them to pay attention and STFU about what they are doing. I don't mean that to be disrespectful to anyone, but that is the case the majority of the time. They will shoot a ball or two and maybe it won't work as advertised for them in the first two minutes. Then they go back to showing you how they do the shot "their way" and blah, blah, blah and then they say TOI doesn't work.

You have to "commit" time, maybe a lot of time for some people, in order to grasp it. To me, it was SIMPLE to learn...I've been doing it for years and years and it made sense to me from the beginning. People who have learned that TOO is the "way to go" for their whole playing lives are the hardest to get to put any time in because it is such a drastic change for them.

TOI isn't for everyone...some people have more fun being "spinners" and since they spend all their time "spinning" that is what they know and they do better at it. It doesn't mean they are "good players", it just means they are better players when they are "spinning" than they are when they aren't.
 
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Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
I use TOI and know what he is doing. Whether I'm explaining it the way he is saying it is another story.

1. Your shaft is aimed at the contact point on the object ball. It is aligned from the contact point on the cue ball to the contact point on the object ball.

2. He used to align his shots and hit the center of the cue ball as his target. He has now shifted parallel to the center of the cue ball but is still aligned on the shot...just over a bit or two. He isn't pivoting. The whole cue shifts over.

TOI becomes second nature after you have spent time playing with it. It takes a while to become fully adjusted where you actually "figure out" what is going on. That becomes your "aha" moment and you realize how simple it is, but hard to initially wrap your brain around.

If I explained it differently than he meant, I'm sure he will jump in and correct me.

I think learning to effectively use TOI would improve anybody's playing. Whether they wished to continue using it all the time is up to them.

People have to remember that when you are shooting a ball to the left, the left side of the cue ball hits the right side of the object ball. Using TOI, you are aiming your cue to the left side of the cue ball (inside)...the same side that is hitting the object ball. If you are aiming at the center of the cue ball or using right English to the right of center, your cue isn't aligned to the contact points on the balls.

The same applies in reverse when shooting to the right.

My cue is always aligned to the side of the cue ball that is hitting the object ball, except for straight in shots and shots that I have to put a bit of outside English on in order to make the ball and/or get position.

The HARDEST part about teaching TOI to someone who has played the game for a while is getting them to pay attention and STFU about what they are doing. I don't mean that to be disrespectful to anyone, but that is the case the majority of the time. They will shoot a ball or two and maybe it won't work as advertised for them in the first two minutes. Then they go back to showing you how they do the shot "their way" and blah, blah, blah and then they say TOI doesn't work.

You have to "commit" time, maybe a lot of time for some people, in order to grasp it. To me, it was SIMPLE to learn...I've been doing it for years and years and it made sense to me from the beginning. People who have learned that TOO is the "way to go" for their whole playing lives are the hardest to get to put any time in because it is such a drastic change for them.

TOI isn't for everyone...some people have more fun being "spinners" and since they spend all their time "spinning" that is what they know and they do better at it. It doesn't mean they are "good players", it just means they are better players when they are "spinning" than they are when they aren't.

My question is "why did you switch to an aiming system"? What was wrong with yours and why go searching for another? I'm curious why anyone who has played for a while search for another like TOI or CTE? Did you meet with CJ to learn his system?
 
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Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My question is "why did you switch to an aiming system"? What was wrong with yours and why go searching for another? I'm curious why anyone who has played for a while search for another like TOI or CTE? Did you meet with CJ to learn his system?
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Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
his answer. I am not going to argue about it. Call it BS, snake oil, voodoo, or whatever...but that doesn't change the reality one bit.
If you're playing draw poker, why do you not call all raises to draw 1 card to a flush?
*Because it isn't good percentage.
If you're at a dice game, why would you bet even money that you'd make a 7 on the next roll when the odds are 5-1 against you?
*Because it isn't good percentage.
Why would you shoot at a pool ball by guessing or estimating about "that looks like it's on" instead of using a method that makes DEAD CERTAIN it's on?
*Because guessing/estimating is not good percentage.
I know, I know, you can still and will miss shots....but you had the better percentage for you going in, no matter what happened coming out.
That's why people use aiming systems...pick one out, learn it, and get better percentages. The fastest horse doesn't always win the race, but it's still wise to bet on him.
:smile:[/QUOTE]

I've watched Cowboy Jimmy Moore's training video. He states he learned how to make balls by using spit with his finger on the OB opposite the hole to learn how to make the shot. I guess there is no guessing about that method either.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Why would you shoot at a pool ball by guessing or estimating about "that looks like it's on" instead of using a method that makes DEAD CERTAIN it's on?
Because you live in the real world, where every method relies on your judgment of what's "on".

Unless your system does the aiming and you're just a spectator...?

pj
chgo
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've watched Cowboy Jimmy Moore's training video. He states he learned how to make balls by using spit with his finger on the OB opposite the hole to learn how to make the shot. I guess there is no guessing about that method either.
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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Because you live in the real world, where every method relies on your judgment of what's "on".

Unless your system does the aiming and you're just a spectator...?

pj
chgo

Exactly. We are always using our judgement -- our trained eyes and our acquired experience and knowledge -- in everything we do, from walking to riding a bike to driving a car. This same experience-based judgement is used in every sport and every game that requires hand-eye-body coordination. Good judgment is learned through experience. Inexperience, or a simple unwillingness or inability to learn, results in poor judgment skills, where luck and guesswork become the primary source of action.

Even with TOI, or any aiming system, individual experience-based judgment is being used, whether we consciously realize it or not.
 
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