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SmokinJoe46
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05-29-2019, 07:12 AM

I'm a bit confused with your below statement of
Quote:
"For over a year and a half I've been pocketing balls using the wrong CTE line. I've been lining up the top center of the cue ball with the side of the object ball. Thinking of the manual pivot process (I admit I bypassed that) made me realize the center of the cue ball to be aligned to the edge of the object ball begin with the center where the cue's tip goes if hitting exact center cue ball."
Are you visualizing looking through the CB center as if it was clear or see through verses the top of the CB center? If so, how is thet the wrong thing to do, or is just wrong as far as you're concerned due to your eye issues?
  
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05-29-2019, 07:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
The eyes/vision center are where they are because of your head position. But think of it however works best for you.

pj
chgo
Ok - we are both correct but my focus is entirely on getting my eyes to lead me to the fixed center cue ball and eventually to the shot line. I don't think of moving my head or body then my eyes althought that is physically happening. My eyes lead.


Allen
  
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05-29-2019, 07:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinJoe46 View Post
I'm a bit confused with your below statement of Are you visualizing looking through the CB center as if it was clear or see through verses the top of the CB center? If so, how is thet the wrong thing to do, or is just wrong as far as you're concerned due to your eye issues?
I can see why until you actually experience it. Do this experiment (assuming you are a CTE user ... if you aren't then ... oh well):

1. Set up cue ball and object ball with a slight cut that requires a 15 degree perception. Move your body until you are able to see ETA (or C) and then CTE using the top point of the cue ball. I find that to be very difficult.

2. When you believe you have them aligned then shift your eyes to center cue ball (tip placement area). You should see that they are not in alignment because of parallax. You are standing to the side of each lines in order to see both edge-to-A(or C) and so the CTE line choices (cue tip point vs cue ball top) are slightly out of alignment.


Those darned spheres are tough: The top-most point of the cue ball is a verticle great circle. The center cue ball point - where the cue tip contacts - is part of a horizontal great circle. I believe this is why one works better than the other: The horizontal great circle is on the same plane as the contact point of the object ball. I'm no mathematician and yes, my eyes could be distorting the results but - heck - I know results when I see them. I'd quit playing pool if I had to go back to fractional or parallel aiming points.

CTE is easy to understand when you "get it" but difficult to describe via the written word.


Allen
  
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05-29-2019, 08:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacman View Post
I can see why until you actually experience it. Do this experiment (assuming you are a CTE user ... if you aren't then ... oh well):
1. Set up cue ball and object ball with a slight cut that requires a 15 degree perception. Move your body until you are able to see ETA (or C) and then CTE using the top point of the cue ball. I find that to be very difficult.
2. When you believe you have them aligned then shift your eyes to center cue ball (tip placement area). You should see that they are not in alignment because of parallax. You are standing to the side of each lines in order to see both edge-to-A(or C) and so the CTE line choices (cue tip point vs cue ball top) are slightly out of alignment.
Those darned spheres are tough: The top-most point of the cue ball is a vertical great circle. The center cue ball point - where the cue tip contacts - is part of a horizontal great circle. I believe this is why one works better than the other: The horizontal great circle is on the same plane as the contact point of the object ball. I'm no mathematician and yes, my eyes could be distorting the results but - heck - I know results when I see them. I'd quit playing pool if I had to go back to fractional or parallel aiming points.

CTE is easy to understand when you "get it" but difficult to describe via the written word.
Thanks for the explanation.
  
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Low500
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05-30-2019, 04:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacman View Post
CTE is easy to understand when you "get it" but difficult to describe via the written word.
There you have it in one sentence.
Furthermore, learning it requires the intensive UN-learning of years and years of habit in playing pool....that in itself is a daunting challenge.
Then you have all the "it won't work" stuff from so many "experts", instructors, pool scientists, book writers, historians, bigots, coming at you from all sides.
But that is the nature of pool players.
As an "I told you so" , just look at the Mosconi worshipers who're already slowly but surely trying to diminish the accomplishment of John Schmidt in beating the stuffing out of Mosconi's high run record by 100 balls.
This is veryyyy strong==>"Those darned spheres are tough: The top-most point of the cue ball is a verticle great circle. The center cue ball point - where the cue tip contacts - is part of a horizontal great circle. I believe this is why one works better than the other: The horizontal great circle is on the same plane as the contact point of the object ball. I'm no mathematician and yes, my eyes could be distorting the results but - heck - I know results when I see them. I'd quit playing pool if I had to go back to fractional or parallel aiming points".<===you're a wise man, sir.


***Inside every 'progressive' there exists a totalitarian fighting to get out and tell everyone how to live their lives

Last edited by Low500; 05-30-2019 at 05:07 AM.
  
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Patrick Johnson
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05-30-2019, 06:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacman View Post
You are standing to the side of each lines in order to see both edge-to-A(or C) and so the CTE line choices (cue tip point vs cue ball top) are slightly out of alignment.
If your line of sight isn't directly on the CTE line, then neither tip point nor ball top can possibly line up visually with the edge of the OB. If your line of sight is directly on the CTE line, then both will. This fact has nothing to do with the CTE system - it's just simple spacial relationships that apply no matter what you're doing.

pj
chgo

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05-30-2019, 02:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
If your line of sight isn't directly on the CTE line, then neither tip point nor ball top can possibly line up visually with the edge of the OB. If your line of sight is directly on the CTE line, then both will. This fact has nothing to do with the CTE system - it's just simple spacial relationships that apply no matter what you're doing.

pj
chgo
It's sort of like staring at one of those 3D Magic Eye/Stereogram images, where you focus on one spot and then your brain picks up on the peripheral data that your eyes aren't directly focusing on. So even though you aren't standing/staring directly down the CTE or ETA lines, you can still manage to visualize both from one perspective.
  
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05-30-2019, 04:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
It's sort of like staring at one of those 3D Magic Eye/Stereogram images, where you focus on one spot and then your brain picks up on the peripheral data that your eyes aren't directly focusing on. So even though you aren't standing/staring directly down the CTE or ETA lines, you can still manage to visualize both from one perspective.
Wrong,

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AutostereogramP
  
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Patrick Johnson
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05-30-2019, 04:25 PM

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Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
...even though you aren't standing/staring directly down the CTE or ETA lines, you can still manage to visualize both from one perspective.
Sure, you can "manage to visualize" both lines from any nearby perspective - that's a big part (not all) of the subjectivity in the system. The two lines don't "lead to" the shot - trial and error does that. The lines help record it in memory. The two-line memory aid, rationally understood, is something I like about the system.

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chgo

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05-30-2019, 05:38 PM

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Originally Posted by duckie View Post
Yes, my bad...these magic eye images are called autostereograms, not stereograms. I have a vintage stereoscope (viewer) and it uses cards that have two images side by side, one from a left eye perspective and one from a right eye perspective. When looking through the viewer each eye sees a 2D image, which allows the brain to create the perception of depth (3D). It's a pretty cool trick that demonstrates how the eyes and brain function together when we look at something.
  
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06-01-2019, 06:04 AM

I can see those quite easily. Itís like looking at something without having a central point of focus. Using that concept at the table allows me to see the pocket, OB and CB all at the same time. This means the central vision part of my field of vision are not converged on any of them. This helps me in seeing the whole shot and not just part. I can get into position without having to converge my central vision on the CB or OB or pocket cause I use my peripheral vision to know where those are located.

How one uses their vision nor their level of sparital ability can be known unless tested.

Another idea.....target fixation. If you ride motorcycles for anything length of time, youíll will here about target fixation and crashing because of it. In motorcycling riding, there is also the saying, you go where you look.

Target fixation is when you hit something you are trying to avoid. Your gaze is fixated on whatever it is instead of having it on where you need to be going. Iíve experienced this, not the crashing part. I was headed straight for something I didnít want to hit, like a big ass pot hole, cause I my gaze was on it. Once a shifted my gaze to where I needed to go, I went around it .

I apply this to a pool shot. I look to where I am stroking to as like is done on a one rail kick shot. This is why I wonder how people can be looking at the OB,which means the central vision of their eyes field of vision is converged on the OB,target fixation, but their stroke is away from where their central vision is converged.

Thereís a lot of ďhow toĒ in pool that are never questioned, but accepted on blind faith. FWIW, for many years, I was a QA tester for a electronic company, in addition to being the tech writer for the products produce and also a trainer of those products.

As a tester, I had to not only make sure stuff worked, but find ways to make them fail.....I was very good at that part, but it made for a quality product.....Our stuffed just worked as advertised.

I carry this into pool world. I can find flaws in what most think is gospel when it comes to pool. Like having your foot or feet on the shot line which was stated in instructor forum recently and not one person openly questioned that statement.......canít be done.

I shoot one handed shots a lot, comes in handy at times. So by head is no where near or over the cue, nor my feet anywhere the shot line.

Guess the point of all this is ......learn to devolp your on way to play pool that makes sense to you and not just blindly follow what others say.
  
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06-06-2019, 04:33 AM

CTE JOURNEY LOG 6/5/2019:

Played a friend last night - the usual eight-ball, call shot game. I like that game as it requires many decisions - sequence of balls, working around congested traffic, etc. It works the brain well and yet is very enjoyable.

During one of our games my opponent broke but didn't pocket a ball. My only shot was a bank attempt that unfortunately missed (I don't always choose the correct CTE alignment on bank shots). A safety would do no good as there were too many hangers for him to choose from. He ran all but missed a long-distance shot on the eight.

I took a deep breath, told myself "just focus on your CTE pre-shot routine", ignoring the fact that I had better make all of the seven balls on the table. CTE took me to the shot line each time. Thankfully, it seems that I am seeing the correct alignment and choosing the correct sweep direction more often - with more experience. I ran the rest of my group and pocketed the eight ball using a cross-corner bank with a 15 degree perception and outside sweep (with a bit of outside english).

It was a good feeling.


Allen
  
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Low500
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06-06-2019, 04:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacman View Post
CTE JOURNEY LOG 6/5/2019:
Played a friend last night - the usual eight-ball, call shot game. I like that game as it requires many decisions - sequence of balls, working around congested traffic, etc. It works the brain well and yet is very enjoyable.
During one of our games my opponent broke but didn't pocket a ball. My only shot was a bank attempt that unfortunately missed (I don't always choose the correct CTE alignment on bank shots). A safety would do no good as there were too many hangers for him to choose from. He ran all but missed a long-distance shot on the eight.
I took a deep breath, told myself "just focus on your CTE pre-shot routine", ignoring the fact that I had better make all of the seven balls on the table. CTE took me to the shot line each time. Thankfully, it seems that I am seeing the correct alignment and choosing the correct sweep direction more often - with more experience. I ran the rest of my group and pocketed the eight ball using a cross-corner bank with a 15 degree perception and outside sweep (with a bit of outside english).
It was a good feeling.
Good work..............and it will only get better.
Once you get a healthy taste of how that CTE can win for you, there will never be any doubts that you made the right choice to abandon those lame methods of the past and move into the present.


***Inside every 'progressive' there exists a totalitarian fighting to get out and tell everyone how to live their lives
  
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06-06-2019, 04:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacman View Post
CTE JOURNEY LOG 6/5/2019:

Played a friend last night - the usual eight-ball, call shot game. I like that game as it requires many decisions - sequence of balls, working around congested traffic, etc. It works the brain well and yet is very enjoyable.

During one of our games my opponent broke but didn't pocket a ball. My only shot was a bank attempt that unfortunately missed (I don't always choose the correct CTE alignment on bank shots). A safety would do no good as there were too many hangers for him to choose from. He ran all but missed a long-distance shot on the eight.

I took a deep breath, told myself "just focus on your CTE pre-shot routine", ignoring the fact that I had better make all of the seven balls on the table. CTE took me to the shot line each time. Thankfully, it seems that I am seeing the correct alignment and choosing the correct sweep direction more often - with more experience. I ran the rest of my group and pocketed the eight ball using a cross-corner bank with a 15 degree perception and outside sweep (with a bit of outside english).

It was a good feeling.
nice shooting sacman
  
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06-06-2019, 05:23 AM

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Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
Good work..............and it will only get better.
Once you get a healthy taste of how that CTE can win for you, there will never be any doubts that you made the right choice to abandon those lame methods of the past and move into the present.
This is the main problem with CTE users........continually bashing other systems.

His accomplish is no different than that a Ghostball user using the same mental approach.

No matter what methodology is used, it is always a good feeling when you are playing the best you can.
  
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