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PoolBum
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02-05-2020, 04:37 PM

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Originally Posted by Black-Balled View Post
Is it really possible to have conscious thought that isn't in a human language?

I don't think it is.
Einstein said that he did not think in a human language:

"The words or the language, as they are written or spoken, do not seem to play any role in my mechanism of thought. The psychical entities which seem to serve as elements in thought are certain signs and more or less clear images which can be "voluntarily" reproduced and combined...taken from a psychological viewpoint, this combinatory play seems to be the essential feature in productive thought--before there is any connection with logical construction in words or other kinds of signs which can be communicated to others."

From "A Mathematician's Mind, Testimonial for An Essay on the Psychology of Invention in the Mathematical Field by Jacques S. Hadamard, Princeton University Press, 1945." in Ideas and Opinions.

http://www.pitt.edu/~jdnorton/Goodies/Einstein_think/


  
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02-05-2020, 04:43 PM

I guess music could also be an exception...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolBum View Post
Einstein said that he did not think in a human language:

"The words or the language, as they are written or spoken, do not seem to play any role in my mechanism of thought. The psychical entities which seem to serve as elements in thought are certain signs and more or less clear images which can be "voluntarily" reproduced and combined...taken from a psychological viewpoint, this combinatory play seems to be the essential feature in productive thought--before there is any connection with logical construction in words or other kinds of signs which can be communicated to others."

From "A Mathematician's Mind, Testimonial for An Essay on the Psychology of Invention in the Mathematical Field by Jacques S. Hadamard, Princeton University Press, 1945." in Ideas and Opinions.

http://www.pitt.edu/~jdnorton/Goodies/Einstein_think/


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02-05-2020, 04:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
I've also read that you cannot change the volume on your internal voice.

Lou Figueroa
I just tried...nope.
  
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02-05-2020, 05:39 PM

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Originally Posted by noMoreSchon View Post
I just tried...nope.

But you can change the dialect.

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02-06-2020, 10:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imac007 View Post
To answer your question first, I do have internal dialogue, lots of it. It is gender neutral English dialogue,
My inner voice is a part of me, my self. If it was a female voice I would definitely notice. My assertion that it is gender neutral is likely false. It was a “what the hell is water” moment for me, there, but not noticed.

Location of the voice and tone can be moved. Working with a player who had a critical inner voice, we decided to not fight the voice. Instead we moved it to his big toe and had it criticize him using a Mickey Mouse voice. It lost its power. He came back to me later telling me that he realized the critical voice was saying what a family member used to say to him.

Last edited by Imac007; 02-06-2020 at 10:32 AM.
  
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02-06-2020, 11:07 AM

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Originally Posted by Gatto138 View Post
This seems like a good strategy. I’m going to give it a shot, lol. My inner dialogue, like others have said is like their “reading voice”, keeps me up at night. Blocking out my thoughts seems like a tough endeavor
Yes! My internal narrator of life keeps me up at night also. I lie in bed thinking of the day, of things I did or things I didn't do but should have done. I tell myself to go to sleep! But my internal narrator then wants to discuss something that happened in the past, or something that could possibly happen in the future. The only time there's no internal dialogue going on is when I'm doing something that keeps my mind occupied/focused on the task at hand.

But occasionally, despite attempts to stop it, a dialogue starts up. I mean, I see what I want to do, what needs to happen, and just before I do it the narrator says, "That might not be the best idea."

I tell myself, "It doesn't have to be the best idea as long as it works." "Slacker." "I'm not slacking, just keeping it real." "Whatever." "Screw you... I got this." ...

Meanwhile, my subconscious -- the part of the brain that already knows how to do whatever it is I'm looking at doing -- is no longer in control of the execution process. Instead it's my conscious thought process trying to control everything, trying to prove something to that internal narrator. The outcome typical only prove one thing: When it comes to performance, conscious/deliberate effort produces lousy results when compared to what the ubconscious is capable of doing.
  
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02-06-2020, 11:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-Balled View Post
I guess music could also be an exception...?
I think so. Just "listening" to music in your mind may be a form of thought that is not essentially linguistic. Einstein described some of the elements of his thought as "visual and muscular" as well.


  
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02-06-2020, 01:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imac007 View Post
My inner voice is a part of me, my self. If it was a female voice I would definitely notice. My assertion that it is gender neutral is likely false. It was a “what the hell is water” moment for me, there, but not noticed.

Location of the voice and tone can be moved. Working with a player who had a critical inner voice, we decided to not fight the voice. Instead we moved it to his big toe and had it criticize him using a Mickey Mouse voice. It lost its power. He came back to me later telling me that he realized the critical voice was saying what a family member used to say to him.

Scarlett Johansson talking to me in my head all the time would be a problem.

Lou Figueroa
  
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02-06-2020, 05:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
Scarlett Johansson talking to me in my head all the time would be a problem.

Lou Figueroa
Giving my inner critic a bad stutter and a lisp sounds like a good plan. This has been a great thread for me. I can see how this all relates to mindset during the zone. I’m an auditory dominant person. That also means the source of my biggest distractions at the table are sounds. Conversations that I hear seem the worst. On the other hand if someone is close behind me when at the table it draws my attention away as well.

For me making the visuals my dominant content in my awareness, takes me away from my predominantly auditory state. It alters my otherwise auditory zone and shifts me to a more hand/eye state of mind.
  
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02-06-2020, 06:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imac007 View Post
Giving my inner critic a bad stutter and a lisp sounds like a good plan. This has been a great thread for me. I can see how this all relates to mindset during the zone. I’m an auditory dominant person. That also means the source of my biggest distractions at the table are sounds. Conversations that I hear seem the worst. On the other hand if someone is close behind me when at the table it draws my attention away as well.

For me making the visuals my dominant content in my awareness, takes me away from my predominantly auditory state. It alters my otherwise auditory zone and shifts me to a more hand/eye state of mind.

I think, if you can do it, the best option when playing pool is an on/off switch.

I don't actually have to think about doing so but s I've noted, when playing, my IM goes into silent mode, which I consider a blessing.

Lou Figueroa
  
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02-06-2020, 10:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
I think, if you can do it, the best option when playing pool is an on/off switch.

I don't actually have to think about doing so but s I've noted, when playing, my IM goes into silent mode, which I consider a blessing.

Lou Figueroa
We all do it. We tune things out so we can focus on, whatever. The issue for some will be about tuning out. For others, it may be what to focus in on. A surgeon may need to hone in on the physical precision (feel), while another may need to sharpen focus on the visual exactness, for the same task.

It often needs a combination of the skill of blocking distractions and transitioning onto the elements of the task at hand that raise the performance level.
  
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02-07-2020, 06:43 AM

I wouldn't know how to play without one. I remember Jimmy Reid talking a lot about it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
So I recently read an article that was incredibly surprising to me -- that not every human being has the ability to conduct an internal monologue with themselves:

https://ryanandrewlangdon.wordpress....ruined-my-day/

IOWs, some people can't silently talk to themselves inside their brain.

How is this possible?!

So anyways, I was thinking about this as it pertains to pool and was wondering if, ferinstance, while I was playing Francisco Bustamonte at the DCC a few days ago, was I having an internal monologue during my runs during which I talked and debated with myself about what to do next on each shot.

And I came to the conclusion, that even though I can and do have internal monologues with myself, when I'm shooting pool, especially when running balls, I do not have an internal monologue going on and my thought process becomes unspoken and abstract. Crazy.

How about youz? Do you have or not have internal monologues, particularly when shooting pool?

Lou Figueroa


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02-07-2020, 09:25 AM

Been engaged in a little extra internal monologue concerning internal monologue since reading the different experiences of others. While I can't claim any more actual knowledge about the general topic, I can expand my own experiences and thoughts about the subject.

Generally, I'm leaning towards the belief that the various personal experiences all fall under the same umbrella...the brain is communicating thoughts to each individual in the manner in which their brain is "wired". Some in sound, others in words not spoken, but still understood, and still others possibly in pictures or video...like dreams. Some individuals are wired to receive their thoughts in several different media transmissions.

I hear no sound, but still understand my thoughts in basic words, I often see visuals, both stills and in motion (as with dreams), but cannot recall ever hearing "voices in my head", which, if I did, I may find a little disturbing. I mostly direct my inner monologue to specific topics, and sometimes the inner monologue is a topic not of my choosing, sometimes welcome, often not. Turning the unwanted monologue off is occasionally easier said than done.

I would imagine not being able to control the "monologue", in the extreme, can be maddening.

Last edited by jimmyg; 02-07-2020 at 10:55 AM.
  
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02-07-2020, 10:44 AM

My internal monologue while reading this post is about how AZb’s forum can go from discussing the conspiracy theories in the 626 thread to having such an interesting conversation about internal monologues.

I find this topic incredibly interesting and can’t believe others don’t have a mini-me in their brain talking to them.

One of the most revelatory things I learned/realized from this thread is that I can’t change the volume of my internal voice. Very interesting and not something I have ever took notice of.

The human brain is cool.

Any tips on how you turn your’s off in heated/stressful competition is welcome. #chronicchoker
  
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02-07-2020, 03:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imac007 View Post
We all do it. We tune things out so we can focus on, whatever. The issue for some will be about tuning out. For others, it may be what to focus in on. A surgeon may need to hone in on the physical precision (feel), while another may need to sharpen focus on the visual exactness, for the same task.

It often needs a combination of the skill of blocking distractions and transitioning onto the elements of the task at hand that raise the performance level.

I think you're right.

Muzzling the little sucker is a skill unto itself.

Lou Figueroa
  
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