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lfigueroa
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02-07-2020, 03:04 PM

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Originally Posted by Benward452 View Post
My internal monologue while reading this post is about how AZb’s forum can go from discussing the conspiracy theories in the 626 thread to having such an interesting conversation about internal monologues.

I find this topic incredibly interesting and can’t believe others don’t have a mini-me in their brain talking to them.

One of the most revelatory things I learned/realized from this thread is that I can’t change the volume of my internal voice. Very interesting and not something I have ever took notice of.

The human brain is cool.

Any tips on how you turn your’s off in heated/stressful competition is welcome. #chronicchoker

I think you just have to tell it to STFU and work towards maintaining a clear mind.

For moi it just happens automatically but I'm not so sure it was always that way. And in part I think it's just a matter of learning how to concentrate and focus at a higher level of intensity than you currently do.

Lou Figueroa
  
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02-07-2020, 03:05 PM

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Originally Posted by Benward452 View Post
Any tips on how you turn your’s off in heated/stressful competition is welcome. #chronicchoker
See below...

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Originally Posted by Ghosst View Post
...I often remind myself not to indulge them and instead I try to bring myself back to the present by concentrating on something like the feel of the cloth or the sensation of my feet. Since your mind can only concentrate on one thing at a time this works very well. Remembering to do it is the hard part.



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02-07-2020, 04:08 PM

My mind has always been running overtime. Since getting older it has cut some of the overtime.

Meditation and breathing exercises can help shut this inner voice down or off completely. If you have trouble quieting the mind during meditation, do counted breathing, in on a 4 count, hold for a 4 count, release on a four count. Or, focus on relaxed breathing, don't control it but observe it, let it go and just focus on the rhythm. Great way to go to sleep too.

If you can practice that, you will get better at it.

With pool inner thoughts can wreak havoc. Shutting that voice off is a part of my PSR. All is thought out before bending over on the shot, when I get down on a shot and I'm well focused, there is no thought. I'm in the moment and I can feel the cue and table and that's about it. I don't see as much either, I develop a tunnel vision that only is as big as the shot.

When you can get to a point of quieting the mind you're more in a subconscious state. Many people I've talked to have played their best pool like this. It's almost like flipping a switch, the mind isn't focused on what the conscious is battering about, the mind is in a more physically focused state. It's doing, it's not thinking.

This all goes back to the Inner Game of Golf. That author explains it much better than I am.


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02-07-2020, 06:03 PM

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Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
I think you're right.

Muzzling the little sucker is a skill unto itself.

Lou Figueroa
I’m aware that when I’m in the zone, there is no muzzle. That said there is a foreground/background dynamic happening. Where the auditory channel is my default for everyday living and is the foreground life track, the rest is relegated to the background, but comes forward on command of my auditory self.

When in the zone, the auditory part still lays out the game plan and deploys resources, it also relegates itself to the background. My visual self (subconscious) becomes dominant with some sense, more unconscious, of the feel part of the game. Since being in a visual mode is a different state than the everyday dialogue I live with, the state seems different, a light trance state. I need the kinesthetic part of the game to stay as unconscious as possible, that part is where feelings live and I want to be as detached as possible. Staying in a visual world that is foreground and everything else as background works best for me.

I happen to be auditory dominant so this relates to me being auditory in consciousness, visual in my subconscious and kinesthetic in the unconscious. Most people are visual in consciousness. Look up Markova stacks to get a sense of this concept at work. It was part of research into learning styles. Switching into the subconscious sensory mode induced a mild trance. My experience is that trance is my peak performance state. My subconscious is predominantly visual. If I start to go to my unconscious awareness, heightened feel, I can trance out and sometimes lose my pattern or the visuals or be disrupted by stress feelings. While feel is great in my background, putting it up front, I’m either brilliant or distracted. I need the right foreground but the dynamic for me is my own. Markova insights can let you find your own.

This is recent awareness for me. I’m just learning how to foreground/background my sensory state. Most of that has been done off the table. Thinking about possible scenarios and how to adjust based on table situations I face.

Sometimes on difficult cueing I become too grip aware. That’s probably not going to change. I can get up and decide the whole stroke/grip thing while up then shift my shot dynamic to the visuals, where to aim and putting the cue ball on a line to the target.

If a conversation nearby becomes foreground (auditory) I need to stop and pay attention to it. (Trying to ignore something rarely works). The talking is likely going to get boring fast then I can get back to seeing the things I need to see to perform. The point is that when something pulls me away from a visuals foreground I need to stop and recalibrate back to a visual foreground awareness.

My team are testing these ideas. I just got a message from a teammate whose subconscious is auditory. His inner voice directs the action and is an active cheerleading source. He has phrases like “ok, you’ve got this” that help control his state. His last message was “ That inner talk is true to success. ”

The trick is to find out your dominant sense, that will be the one you process most every day. Then figure out what sense you are the least aware of. That will be the sense relegated to the unconscious. Whatever state is left is the one that when you foreground it, will put you in a light trance state. From that center position you have access to conscious and unconscious resources.

My personal experience has been that I’m not losing being in stroke as easily and seem to get back in quickly. Who knows it could be a placebo effect. I’ll take it whatever it is. Hoping it stays a difference maker.

Relating this to the missing inner dialogue I would say those people have their auditory stuff relegated to the unconscious. The conscious mind tends to be linear and able to dissect stuff in thinking. The unconscious experiences things more in wholes. The linear separateness of language structure is not the primary domain of the unconscious auditory. And abstract language concepts become more difficult. The auditory unconscious is sensitive to tones of voice though.

The flip side is that the subconscious and conscious mind are poised for hand/eye coordination, being visual and kinesthetic. They pick up sports skills quickly and easily, by watching and doing.

Last edited by Imac007; 02-07-2020 at 10:59 PM.
  
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02-09-2020, 01:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imac007 View Post
My team are testing these ideas. I just got a message from a teammate whose subconscious is auditory. His inner voice directs the action and is an active cheerleading source. He has phrases like “ok, you’ve got this” that help control his state. His last message was “ That inner talk is true to success. ”

The trick is to find out your dominant sense, that will be the one you process most every day. Then figure out what sense you are the least aware of. That will be the sense relegated to the unconscious. Whatever state is left is the one that when you foreground it, will put you in a light trance state. From that center position you have access to conscious and unconscious resources.

My personal experience has been that I’m not losing being in stroke as easily and seem to get back in quickly. Who knows it could be a placebo effect. I’ll take it whatever it is. Hoping it stays a difference maker.

Relating this to the missing inner dialogue I would say those people have their auditory stuff relegated to the unconscious. The conscious mind tends to be linear and able to dissect stuff in thinking. The unconscious experiences things more in wholes. The linear separateness of language structure is not the primary domain of the unconscious auditory. And abstract language concepts become more difficult. The auditory unconscious is sensitive to tones of voice though.

The flip side is that the subconscious and conscious mind are poised for hand/eye coordination, being visual and kinesthetic. They pick up sports skills quickly and easily, by watching and doing.
UPDATE
Last century, a sport scientist, by the name of Robert Nideffer, looked at attention. His book A.C.T., Attention Control Training, outlined some interesting findings. He discovered that people had different attention styles. By looking at where people were focusing their attention during everyday functioning, he put them in four categories. He looked at focus. How wide was their focus, narrow or broad? Next, did they tend to focus inward or outward?

He also acknowledged that tasks had different attentional demands. Next, he looked at the effects of stress on executing tasks. He found that the first response to stress was for people to go to their natural style, their comfort zone. As stress increased their attention tended to narrow and internalize.

After realizing this, the next step was to recognize when attention was in the wrong place, and change it, a great strategy,but... As a coach it was tricky. If I recognize the inward focus, telling the player about it just gets them inside their head worrying about being there. My job was to move them outward onto the relevant thinking needed in the situation.

The insight, Markova had that brains organize what we see, hear and feel across consciousness, can lead to a similar issue. In my case my sensory dominance across the conscious, subconscious and unconscious is organized in an AVK personal profile. My performance strengths occur when I focus on the visual and feel dynamics. If I find myself in talk mode, my comfort zone, talking to myself, about being there, is counter productive. I’m both inside my head and processing the wrong sensory data.

That was my world yesterday, when trying to get my mind off inner dialogue. Of course, adjusting on the fly meant reverting to my usual process. Aiming and straight stroking live there and that tends to work, being in better sensory mode. That world tends to be nearly totally visual, in terms of awareness. Past experience tells me that a hole in my game is that my position thinking is not always fine tuned, sometime shape is into too general a zone and/or lacking proper pace. Past experience reminded me that during peak performance when both ends of the shot are looked at, plus the exact positioning from the next shot to its positional shot are also looked at and to the point of even the testing the stroking from there. The short version is that I now put my hand or tip of my cue on the table where I need the cue ball to settle. This is not new and in retrospect there when in top gear, focused and precise.

I’m reminded of a post, in the threads, where the writer talked about players who miss a shot and point to their perfect shape. His point was that, if they actually pocketed the ball, the shape wouldn’t be there. His second point was that there is a stage players get to where the imagined shot, shot plus position are interrelated. If your shot picture is true, you can’t get the calculated position without the ball going in.

Picking a spot for the cue ball to land triggers my unconscious feel side to generate the needed stroke. It straddles my awareness between my subconscious visuals and unconscious feel resources, a mild trance state for me.

This thread started as an exploration of having dialogue in consciousness. As an auditory dominant, bringing out the implications seemed relevant.

Last edited by Imac007; 02-11-2020 at 11:40 PM.
  
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02-09-2020, 11:27 PM

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Originally Posted by 8cree View Post
Some times when I have a good couple of racks and run em out at will, I think back and it's almost like I was never there and never shot a single shot. Sort of like when you drive somewhere and once you get there you can barely remember the drive because you were in a state of "autopilot"... Typically, if I'm talking to myself in my head, it's because there are problems. It seems like my best pool gets played in "autopilot" mode as well... now I'm thinking on it too much and that's probably detrimental at this point!
I can relate to this, since this is what has become more common for me after I started to understand what Markova was saying. In the past, on some shots, I would get all lined up and then a doubt would emerge. I learned to simply shut it down and with my mind on no particular thing, I would just shoot, trusting the process. It bothered me that I wasn’t particularly aware of the shot. But they went in. Awareness was not necessary for the actual shot.

Now I strive for it. When totally focused on something happening that combines subconscious and unconscious processes, I am very comfortable with only a distant background conscious awareness. The visuals are always there, but take a soundtrack free, front row seat for a change, when this happens correctly. Watching a silent movie can trigger a version of that experience, a trancing effect. There is even a mental fist pump when a plan comes together and the balls disappear.

There is a neurological phenomenon called Synaesthesia - crossovers in the senses. Richard Feynman, a Nobel prize physicist reported seeing colors in his equations. A famed painter, Wassily Kandinsky, experienced music while painting and tried to create orchestral masterpieces. These are rarely reported cross sensing experiences. In athletics champion teams have reported connections between teammates of string like connections or light streams. That said, although these are interesting, I think this is a fish asking “what is water” moment. It’s something we miss under our own nose.

“Cue ball on a string”, is such a crossover. Feeling a visual line physical connection is part of what we term hand/eye coordination. It happens frequently between those senses, a type of activity in one sensory modality, such as vision here, that evokes automatic and involuntary perceptual experiences in another, an increased cross-talk between the sensory pathways in the brain. When it happens between other senses though, clinicians define it, give it a name and study it, because it is not part of a normally shared reality. In actuality it is likely just an unrealized capability in the rest of us.

I feared not having conscious awareness during certain shots especially key ones. We fear the unknown. Knowing now that this is likely a sign of the zone puts those fears to rest.

Raise a glass to ”being on autopilot”.
  
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02-11-2020, 10:36 AM

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Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
I think, if you can do it, the best option when playing pool is an on/off switch.

I don't actually have to think about doing so but s I've noted, when playing, my IM goes into silent mode, which I consider a blessing.

Lou Figueroa
In the past I developed a coping strategy for off table distractions. Most of the time I was distracted off table it was about conversations going on that I get tuned into. Also I’m sensitive to the physical presence of a player beside or behind me. That one is easy, just wait for it to clear. The other distractions were another matter. So I developed a strategy.

Don’t try to ignore, it fails. Pay full attention. It’s either important or not. If not, let it subside naturally or wait until it gets boring. The second tactic is what got my focus back on the shot. I use my outer voice to direct me to the physical and visual elements of the shot. My dialogue goes “ok, where was I? ... So, I need to get my cue ball here so I can ... Creating my own external audio draws my attention outwards and the content of the narrative directs my other senses outwards onto the elements of the shot.

There is no reason I can think of not to use it for inner voice distractions too. If the inner voice is not interfering with the planning and execution and rather just focused like an observer/consultant on the elements of play it is likely a natural part of your peak performance state. Don’t fight what you don’t need to fight. You can decide, and be prepared.

Develop a plan to deal with the inner voice when it is an issue. This is mine.

Last edited by Imac007; 02-11-2020 at 10:51 AM.
  
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02-11-2020, 01:17 PM

Internal monologues are very common in trapshooting. It is part of your pre-shot routine. It is what helps you to see the shot before even pulling the trigger. Very similar to what Mark Wilson was describing when he said the pros make the shot before even setting up for the shot. One thing is you never use the word "don't" in your monologue. If you say "don't miss" you miss that shot. Sure everyone here agrees.
  
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02-11-2020, 01:36 PM

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Originally Posted by VVP View Post
Internal monologues are very common in trapshooting. It is part of your pre-shot routine. It is what helps you to see the shot before even pulling the trigger. Very similar to what Mark Wilson was describing when he said the pros make the shot before even setting up for the shot. One thing is you never use the word "don't" in your monologue. If you say "don't miss" you miss that shot. Sure everyone here agrees.
Old wisdom. Trying to ignore the water on the right on the golf course. Controlling the narrative applies to internal dialogue as well. It also applies to leaving missed shots behind. Going over misses and asking “how did I miss that” engages the brain in generating ways to miss that way. Bad mental rehearsal territory. Better to ask “what does that look like when it’s done right?” Even asking how would Effren, Alex and Albin, etc do it?

Another good word is “yet”. Players who get frustrated and say “I can’t do it “ will hear me add the word “yet”. We all start out being unable to do, yet. Then we get past each yet and onto the next.

Last edited by Imac007; 02-11-2020 at 01:39 PM.
  
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02-11-2020, 06:55 PM

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Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
So I recently read an article that was incredibly surprising to me -- that not every human being has the ability to conduct an internal monologue with themselves:

https://ryanandrewlangdon.wordpress....ruined-my-day/

IOWs, some people can't silently talk to themselves inside their brain.

How is this possible?!

So anyways, I was thinking about this as it pertains to pool and was wondering if, ferinstance, while I was playing Francisco Bustamonte at the DCC a few days ago, was I having an internal monologue during my runs during which I talked and debated with myself about what to do next on each shot.

And I came to the conclusion, that even though I can and do have internal monologues with myself, when I'm shooting pool, especially when running balls, I do not have an internal monologue going on and my thought process becomes unspoken and abstract. Crazy.

How about youz? Do you have or not have internal monologues, particularly when shooting pool?

Lou Figueroa
Monologue? No but a song...



I'm a little teapot

I'm a little teapot
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Here is my handle
Here is my spout
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Hear me shout
Tip me over and pour me out!

I'm a very special teapot
Yes, it's true
Here's an example of what I can do
I can turn my handle into a spout
Tip me over and pour me out!


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02-11-2020, 11:18 PM

I definitely hear the internal monologue loud and clear. I try to never allow the word miss to enter it. As soon as I hear that a miss is possible I usually do.
  
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02-12-2020, 09:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
So I recently read an article that was incredibly surprising to me -- that not every human being has the ability to conduct an internal monologue with themselves:

https://ryanandrewlangdon.wordpress....ruined-my-day/

IOWs, some people can't silently talk to themselves inside their brain.

How is this possible?!

So anyways, I was thinking about this as it pertains to pool and was wondering if, ferinstance, while I was playing Francisco Bustamonte at the DCC a few days ago, was I having an internal monologue during my runs during which I talked and debated with myself about what to do next on each shot.

And I came to the conclusion, that even though I can and do have internal monologues with myself, when I'm shooting pool, especially when running balls, I do not have an internal monologue going on and my thought process becomes unspoken and abstract. Crazy.

How about youz? Do you have or not have internal monologues, particularly when shooting pool?

Lou Figueroa
Mine is STFU. Play with your subconscious mind.


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02-12-2020, 10:33 AM

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Originally Posted by rellek View Post
Can't get myself to shut up.
This!

Didn’t know there was a ten character minimum for posting a reply.


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02-12-2020, 11:47 AM

Very interesting thread!

I greatly enjoy learning about the different way that people's brains work and how there are many ways to get the same job done.

Personally, I have no monologue. During my normal day, my thoughts are going a mile a minute. The way my brain works is that even if I am speaking with someone, I have at least one or likely multiple other though processes going on in the background. It is actually quite maddening.

This is why I enjoy high concentration activities. Not too long ago it was racing motorcycles but currently it is shooting pool. During those times, my mind goes quiet...which is bliss by the way. All that white noise goes away and it is peaceful because my brain recognizes that I need all available function for the task at hand.

As for the monologue and how it pertains to running tables? I just 'see' the table. I know that is somewhat ambiguous but really that is how it works for me.

From the break I see the paths I will need to take to get around the table and pocket whatever needs to be pocketed, in what order, and whatever breakouts need to be done, etc.

I do not consciously think as I approach a shot 'ok, I need to hit this with 1/4 tip low and 1 tip right english at a medium-slow speed to get position on the next ball.' My brain simply recognizes it instinctively and does it. I trust myself.

It is interesting because when off the table, I am very much a calculating, physics-minded person who if you asked on paper how a shot needed to be performed, I could describe it in detail. When actually shooting though, nothing. Just pure concentration. I think the only thing going through my mind is an occasional reminder to follow through on my stroke.
  
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02-12-2020, 12:37 PM

I don't have an internal voice whatsoever. Wow. Just tinnitus...

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